On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM, AR wrote:

Am Montag 09 November 2009 21:50:37 schrieb Greg Freemyer:

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Okay,

I decided to try out the http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2 process via zypper.  (I had been testing wagon, because I assumed others were testing zyperr.)

I did the same a few days ago and all went fine.

...

I first updated my repos as requested in: http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2#CLI

You have to, otherwise upgrading won't work ;) Don't forget your other repositories (Packman, KDE4 and all the others). You have to adapt repository Path to 11.2, too

I'm trying to follow the actual instructions which say to disable all repos. Then I added only the 3 11.2 repos listed. I had Packman / KDE4 etc. in my repo list for 11.1, but as of this test, they are all disabled, so I assume I don't have to adapt the paths until I want to enable them. Which for me will be after the upgrade.

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It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.

At a minimum the Upgrade page needs to warn users to expect this extreme behavior is what is expected.  See below:

Which extreme behaviour? Most packages will get upgraded, some downgraded. You can press '?' or 'v' before doing an upgrade. 'v' will show you a verbose list of what changes will happen on your installed packages.

I'm just trying upgrade one package "zypper". I was not expecting 172 MB of download and what looks like hundreds of packages to be upgraded / downgraded. Sure I expect that when I run "zypper dup", but I'm only at the "zypper in zypper" stage. And if it is right, then I think the wiki page should warn the user that this rather innocuous looking command to update a single small package is going to pull lots of data and packages.

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=============== Is that all right?

Looks okay, but you really have to adapt your repositories.

Beyond what I already did? If you look at my original email just after the sig, I show that all the old repos were disabled and the 3 new 11.2 repos added and enabled. I think that is all that is needed. If not, the Upgrade instructions don't detail what is needed.

Regards

-- Axel

Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:01 PM, jdd wrote:

Greg Freemyer a écrit :

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I had Packman / KDE4 etc. in my repo list for 11.1, but as of this test, they are all disabled, so I assume I don't have to adapt the paths until I want to enable them.  Which for me will be after the upgrade.

it seems to me that an upgrade will remove any non covered package (no more supported), so if you have packages that are only from packman, packman should be enabled (but of course, 11.2 version)

the upgrade process is always tricky when packages are to be removed. Are these package essential? if they are not removed, must the old libraries be kept... that is why I realy fear upgrade and try to avoid them

jdd

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the packages it is removing did not come from packman. == The following packages are going to be REMOVED: 3ddiag kdebase3-SuSE kdebase3-SuSE-lang kdebluetooth kdebluetooth-lang kdepim3 kdepim3-kpilot kdepim3-notes kdm-branding-respin kgpg kitchensync kopete kopete-protocol-facebook libpackagekit-glib10 libstdc++43-32bit libxklavier uuid-runtime yast2-storage-lib == They just look like out of data packages that are no longer part of 11.2. And again remember all I'm trying to do is follow the 11.1 -> 11.2 instructions and upgrade zypper to zypper from 11.2 prior to running zypper dup. I swear I've done that numerous times in the past and never had that single command cascade into hundreds of package upgrades/downgrades/vendor changes/removes. See my original email for the full list. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Head of EDD Tape Extraction and Processing team Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer Preservation and Forensic processing of Exchange Repositories White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/tng_whitepaper_fpe.html The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 10:50 +0200, Dave Plater wrote:

On 11/10/2009 12:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

They should remind you that kde3 is no longer in the main repos and you need :-

Why would the upgrade of zypper have to do anything to kde3? It is a text mode application. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkr50tcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XetACdFYjmQ6o2+haFTFtDDBGWp1I6 vNIAoJMaqJp9qGFACd0qhpkMzWfkSnO/ =l1Fk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. write:

On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 10:50 +0200, Dave Plater wrote:

...

On 11/10/2009 12:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

They should remind you that kde3 is no longer in the main repos and you need :-

Why would the upgrade of zypper have to do anything to kde3? It is a text mode application.

Hi, it is quite simple. Answer is dependencies. After each update system still must working. You want update zypper -> require new libzypp -> I think that old yast bindings doesn't work with old libzypp due to ABI changes -> update yast -> new yast require new qt-bindings -> update qt -> and this leads to get remove kde3, because you don't have qt3 after this step ( I think it is related also to renaming of packages from name(name4 for kde4) to name3(name for kde4). so it naturally update to kde4 version your kde3 packages. -- Josef Reidinger YaST team maintainer of perl-Bootloader, YaST2-Repair, webyast (language,time,basesystem,ntp) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2009-11-11 at 09:04 +0100, Josef Reidinger wrote:

Carlos E. R. write:

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Why would the upgrade of zypper have to do anything to kde3? It is a text mode application.

Hi, it is quite simple. Answer is dependencies. After each update system still must working.

System, yes... but not everything, a dup is something drastic.

You want update zypper -> require new libzypp -> I think that old yast bindings doesn't work with old libzypp due to ABI changes -> update yast ->

But why update yast? It was not requested. Sure, yast will not work - so what? If the user wants to update yast, he will do a zypper dup yast as well.

new yast require new qt-bindings -> update qt -> and this leads to get remove kde3, because you don't have qt3 after this step ( I think it is related also to renaming of packages from name(name4 for kde4) to name3(name for kde4). so it naturally update to kde4 version your kde3 packages.

Yes, obviously yast depends on libzypp, but not the other way round. I can understand that updating yast pulls all those deps, but as libzypp should not depend on yast, I still do not see why updating libzypp should pull yast. Maybe I misunderstand the way a dependency works :-? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkr7VIIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X7fQCaAquMd/VXtVaw7bBClfWkryL5 lS8An0rUP+Zg+I5N/1spoTtRYuBRZfmt =au8i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hey Greg,

...

You have to, otherwise upgrading won't work ;) Don't forget your other repositories (Packman, KDE4 and all the others). You have to adapt repository Path to 11.2, too

I'm trying to follow the actual instructions which say to disable all repos. Then I added only the 3 11.2 repos listed.

In this case all other packages from those repos may behave unexpected, but

...

...

It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.

I skipped this information

I'm just trying upgrade one package "zypper". I was not expecting 172 MB of download and what looks like hundreds of packages to be upgraded / downgraded.

You can take a look on the list of depencies of zypper. Those packages have other dependencies as well. I am not surprised that hundrets of packages need to be upgraded and I suppose that's the reason why the new version of zypper is not available for 11.1.

If you look at my original email just after the sig, I show that all the old repos were disabled and the 3 new 11.2 repos added and enabled. I think that is all that is needed. If not, the Upgrade instructions don't detail what is needed.

I did my upgrade slightly different. I disabled some of my repositories but updated the most of them. Just in case you use KDE3 you have to update the repository because it is not longe available in main repos as Dave said. It may behave the same with other packages. Regards Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Jano Kupec wrote:

On 11/10/2009 10:15 AM, A R wrote:

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Hey Greg,

...

...

You have to, otherwise upgrading won't work ;) Don't forget your other repositories (Packman, KDE4 and all the others). You have to adapt repository Path to 11.2, too

I'm trying to follow the actual instructions which say to disable all repos.  Then I added only the 3 11.2 repos listed.

In this case all other packages from those repos may behave unexpected, but

...

...

...

It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.

I skipped this information

...

I'm just trying upgrade one package "zypper".  I was not expecting 172 MB of download and what looks like hundreds of packages to be upgraded / downgraded.

You can take a look on the list of depencies of zypper. Those packages have other dependencies as well. I am not surprised that hundrets of packages need to be upgraded and I suppose that's the reason why the new version of zypper is not available for 11.1.

Exactly. Zypper requires e.g. newer libzypp. And e.g. yast depends on libzypp - that's why many yast packages must be pulled in, too. And it goes similarly for the rest.

Thanks, re: the next upgrade cycle (11.3) It would seem to be a good goal that the 11.2 fully updated zypper be the official upgrade path to 11.3, not having users have to pull zypper from 11.3 to perform a supported upgrade. It is just one package, so surely it can be made sufficient to the task without forcing a full yast / kde update as a preliminary step in the upgrade process. re: current situation I added a comment to the Upgrade/11.2 wiki entry to say the "zypper in zypper" step may result in hundreds of packages being updated and take 10's of minutes to complete. At least then users following the wiki will not be surprised as I was by the large number of package modifications required by what appears to be a simple single package update command. ie. It took me 30 minutes to do that one step. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2009/11/10 14:01 (GMT-0500) Greg Freemyer composed:

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I added a comment to the Upgrade/11.2 wiki entry to say the "zypper in zypper" step may result in hundreds of packages being updated and take 10's of minutes to complete.

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At least then users following the wiki will not be surprised as I was by the large number of package modifications required by what appears to be a simple single package update command.

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ie. It took me 30 minutes to do that one step.

I don't run into that. After I update the sources to the new locations & do zypper ref, and before zypper dup, I do something similar to as follows:

zypper in rpm wget curl aria2 mkinitrd yast2-Bootloader zypper libzypp dbus-1 hal udev satsolver-tools openSUSE-release

zypper is in the list of upgraded packages. When I pulled that from 11.2 repos, it took 30 full minutes to pull. And I was using a very lightly loaded T-1 to do the upgrade. It is not the end of the world, but it is also not very smooth. Of course, I'm now running zypper dup, and that is 4 hrs in and still running. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 12:51 +0100, Jano Kupec wrote: ...

Exactly. Zypper requires e.g. newer libzypp. And e.g. yast depends on libzypp - that's why many yast packages must be pulled in, too. And it goes similarly for the rest.

But YaST is not being upgraded, only zypper. I think that zypper should add somehow (for 11.3) code to upgrade itself first (and only zypper and really needed libraries) as a prior and special step to a "dup". Similar to what YaST does when it sees an update to YaST: it download and installs first the changed YaST packages, restarts YaST, then restarts the upgrade, automatically. It could be part of the dup sequence, or a new parameter. And it should not touch anything else. It does not make much sense to start doing changes to things like kde with a zypper still not upgraded, and which could then do the wrong decisions. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkr52C0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WkzQCfS5F+DEwK8uiHzMos6fr0T0X8 hcMAoJGVNeHr8rkjkNihLRDyHNsWqsHW =/Xnp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org