[opensuse-factory] unexpected / undocumented question during 11.1 -> 11.2 upgrade
Okay, I decided to try out the <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2> process via zypper. (I had been testing wagon, because I assumed others were testing zyperr.) Remember upgrade via zypper dup and wagon are both now supported. This is not at all what I expected. I first updated my repos as requested in: <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2#CLI> I then disabled the old repos and added the 11.2 repos. (See detail 1 below my sig for exactly how my repos were setup.) I then tried the last of the preparation steps: zypper refresh # Refresh the local metadata and repo contents zypper in zypper # Pull in zypper from the 11.2 repository It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected. At a minimum the Upgrade page needs to warn users to expect this extreme behavior is what is expected. See below: =========== Several pages of example output
sudo zypper refresh Repository 'openSUSE 11.2 Non-OSS' is up to date. Repository 'openSUSE 11.2 Oss' is up to date. Repository 'openSUSE 11.2 Updates' is up to date. All repositories have been refreshed.
gaf@tiger3-64bit:~> sudo zypper in zypper Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies... The following packages are going to be upgraded: bluez chmlib ghostscript-library gnokii gnome-main-menu gpsd gutenprint gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-fuse hwinfo kdebase4-runtime-branding-openSUSE kdebase4-workspace-branding-openSUSE konversation konversation-lang libakonadi4 libarchive2 libblkid1 libblocxx6 libbluetooth3 libcdio_cdda0 libcdio_paranoia0 libdjvulibre21 libgvfscommon0 libldapcpp1 libpisock9 libpoppler-qt4-3 libqdialogsolver1 libspectre1 libtidy libuuid1 libuuid-devel libzip1 libzypp limal limal-ca-mgm limal-ca-mgm-perl limal-nfs-server limal-nfs-server-perl limal-perl NetworkManager NetworkManager-glib obex-data-server obexftp openobex PackageKit satsolver-tools sax2 sax2-gui sax2-libsax sax2-libsax-perl scpm sg3_utils tsclient util-linux x11-tools xorg-x11-libs-32bit yast2 yast2-control-center-gnome yast2-core yast2-fingerprint-reader yast2-hardware-detection yast2-installation yast2-ldap yast2-libyui yast2-mouse yast2-ncurses yast2-ncurses-pkg yast2-nis-client yast2-perl-bindings yast2-pkg-bindings yast2-profile-manager yast2-qt yast2-qt-pkg yast2-slp yast2-sound yast2-storage yast2-transfer yast2-users yast2-xml yast2-ycp-ui-bindings zypper The following packages are going to be downgraded: akonadi-runtime akregator ark digikam dolphin gwenview kaddressbook kde4-webkitpart kdeartwork4-screensaver kdebase4 kdebase4-runtime kdebase4-workspace kdebluetooth4 kdegraphics4 kdepim4 kdepim4-wizards kdepimlibs4 kdm kget kipi-plugins kmail kmix knode knotes konqueror-plugins kontact korganizer ktorrent kwalletmanager kwin libakonadiprotocolinternals1 libepub0 libgimpprint libgpod4 libgpod-tools libkdcraw7 libkdepim4 libkdepimlibs4 libkexiv2-7 libkipi6 libknotificationitem-1-1 libksane0 libmal libqimageblitz4 libssh3 marble okular plasma-addons plasma-addons-marble python-kde4 The following NEW packages are going to be installed: augeas-lenses boost-license1_39_0 bundle-lang-common-ar bundle-lang-gnome-ca bundle-lang-gnome-extras-en clucene-core-32bit DeviceKit-disks device-mapper-32bit evolution-data-server-32bit file-32bit giflib-32bit gnome-panel-32bit kdm-branding-upstream libatasmart4 libaugeas0 libboost_program_options1_39_0 libcdio10-32bit libeggdbus-1-0 libelf1-32bit libexif-32bit libexiv2-5-32bit libfprint0-32bit libfuse2-32bit libgdu0 libgmp3-32bit libgnome-desktop-2-11-32bit libgnome-menu2-32bit libgnutls26-32bit libgomp44-32bit libgpgme11-32bit libgphoto2-32bit libgtop-2_0-7-32bit libgudev-1_0-0-32bit libgweather1-32bit libical0-32bit libieee1284-32bit libiw30 libkde4-32bit libkdecore4-32bit libkonq5-32bit liblua5_1-32bit liblzma0-32bit libMagickCore2-32bit libmysqlclient_r16-32bit libnl-32bit libpackagekit-glib12 libpcsclite1-32bit libphonon4-32bit libpixman-1-0-32bit libpolkit0 libpolkit-qt0-32bit libpoppler5 libpopt0-32bit libproxy0-32bit libpth20-32bit libqca2-32bit libqt4-32bit libqt4-qt3support-32bit libqt4-sql-32bit libqt4-sql-mysql-32bit libqt4-sql-sqlite-32bit libqt4-x11-32bit libQtWebKit4-32bit libreadline6-32bit libreiserfs-32bit libslab0 libsoprano4-32bit libsoup-2_4-1-32bit libstdc++44-32bit libstorage libstrigi0-32bit libudev0-32bit libunique-1_0-0 libwnck-1-22-32bit libx86emu1 libxklavier15 mhash openslp-32bit parted-32bit perl-32bit PolicyKit-32bit polkit rpm-32bit sane-backends-32bit startup-notification-32bit taglib-32bit utempter-32bit xorg-x11-libXdmcp-32bit yast2-dbus-client The following packages are going to be REMOVED: 3ddiag kdebase3-SuSE kdebase3-SuSE-lang kdebluetooth kdebluetooth-lang kdepim3 kdepim3-kpilot kdepim3-notes kdm-branding-respin kgpg kitchensync kopete kopete-protocol-facebook libpackagekit-glib10 libstdc++43-32bit libxklavier uuid-runtime yast2-storage-lib The following packages are going to change architecture: akonadi-runtime akregator ark bluez chmlib digikam ghostscript-library gnokii gnome-main-menu gpsd gutenprint gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-fuse gwenview hwinfo kaddressbook kde4-webkitpart kdeartwork4-screensaver kdebase4 kdebase4-runtime kdebase4-workspace kdebluetooth4 kdegraphics4 kdepim4 kdepim4-wizards kdepimlibs4 kdm kget kipi-plugins kmail kmix knode knotes konqueror-plugins kontact konversation konversation-lang korganizer ktorrent kwalletmanager kwin libakonadi4 libakonadiprotocolinternals1 libarchive2 libblocxx6 libbluetooth3 libcdio_cdda0 libcdio_paranoia0 libdjvulibre21 libepub0 libgimpprint libgpod4 libgpod-tools libgvfscommon0 libkdcraw7 libkdepim4 libkdepimlibs4 libkexiv2-7 libkipi6 libknotificationitem-1-1 libksane0 libldapcpp1 libmal libpisock9 libpoppler-qt4-3 libqdialogsolver1 libqimageblitz4 libspectre1 libssh3 libtidy libzip1 libzypp limal limal-ca-mgm limal-ca-mgm-perl limal-nfs-server limal-nfs-server-perl limal-perl marble NetworkManager NetworkManager-glib obex-data-server obexftp okular openobex PackageKit plasma-addons plasma-addons-marble python-kde4 satsolver-tools sax2 sax2-gui sax2-libsax sax2-libsax-perl scpm sg3_utils tsclient yast2-control-center-gnome yast2-core yast2-fingerprint-reader yast2-hardware-detection yast2-ldap yast2-libyui yast2-ncurses yast2-ncurses-pkg yast2-nis-client yast2-perl-bindings yast2-pkg-bindings yast2-profile-manager yast2-qt yast2-qt-pkg yast2-slp yast2-sound yast2-storage yast2-transfer yast2-users yast2-xml yast2-ycp-ui-bindings zypper The following packages are going to change vendor: akonadi-runtime akregator ark digikam dolphin gwenview kaddressbook kde4-webkitpart kdeartwork4-screensaver kdebase4 kdebase4-runtime kdebase4-runtime-branding-openSUSE kdebase4-workspace kdebase4-workspace-branding-openSUSE kdebluetooth4 kdegraphics4 kdepim4 kdepim4-wizards kdepimlibs4 kdm kget kipi-plugins kmail kmix knode knotes konqueror-plugins kontact konversation konversation-lang korganizer ktorrent kwalletmanager kwin libakonadiprotocolinternals1 libepub0 libgpod4 libgpod-tools libkdcraw7 libkdepim4 libkdepimlibs4 libkexiv2-7 libkipi6 libknotificationitem-1-1 libksane0 libmal libqimageblitz4 libssh3 marble okular plasma-addons plasma-addons-marble python-kde4 Overall download size: 172.8 M. After the operation, additional 53.4 M will be used. Continue? [Y/n/p/?]: =============== Is that all right? Greg == detail 1) sudo zypper ls -d # | Alias | Name | Enabled | Refresh | Priority | Type | URI ---+--------------------------+--------------------------+---------+---------+----------+--------+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop | KDE:KDE4:Factory:Desktop | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU... 2 | KDE:Qt | KDE:Qt | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Qt/openSUSE_11.1/ 3 | OpenOffice.org:STABLE | OpenOffice.org:STABLE | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/OpenOffice.org:/STABLE/openSUSE_11... 4 | Packman_Repository_1 | Packman_Repository | No | No | 99 | rpm-md | http://ftp.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/11.1/ 5 | games | games | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/games/openSUSE_11.1/ 6 | home:Spyhawk | home:Spyhawk | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/Spyhawk/openSUSE_11.1/ 7 | kde_factory_debug | kde factory debug | No | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/factory/repo/debug/ 8 | mozilla | mozilla | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/mozilla/openSUSE_11.1/ 9 | multimedia | multimedia | No | No | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/multimedia:/audio:/KMP/openSUSE_11... 10 | nomad | nomad | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/dreveman:/nomad/openSUSE_11.... 11 | openSUSE-11.0-Non-Oss | openSUSE-11.1-Non-Oss | No | No | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.1/repo/non-oss/ 12 | openSUSE-11.1-Updates | openSUSE-11.1-Updates | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.1 13 | openSUSE:11.0_1 | openSUSE:11.1 | No | No | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.1/repo/oss/ 14 | openSUSE:11.1:NonFree | openSUSE:11.1:NonFree | No | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/11.1:/NonFree/standard/ 15 | openSUSE_11.2_Non-OSS | openSUSE 11.2 Non-OSS | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/non-oss 16 | openSUSE_11.2_Oss | openSUSE 11.2 Oss | Yes | Yes | 99 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ 17 | openSUSE_11.2_Updates | openSUSE 11.2 Updates | Yes | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.2/ 18 | repo-source | openSUSE-11.1-Source | No | Yes | 100 | yast2 | http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/11.1/repo/oss/ 19 | repo-update | openSUSE-11.1-Update | No | Yes | 20 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.1/ 20 | xrdp | xrdp | No | Yes | 99 | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/hfiguiere:/Factory/openSUSE_... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 09 November 2009 21:50:37 schrieb Greg Freemyer:
Okay,
I decided to try out the <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2> process via zypper. (I had been testing wagon, because I assumed others were testing zyperr.)
I did the same a few days ago and all went fine.
I first updated my repos as requested in: <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2#CLI>
You have to, otherwise upgrading won't work ;) Don't forget your other repositories (Packman, KDE4 and all the others). You have to adapt repository Path to 11.2, too
It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.
At a minimum the Upgrade page needs to warn users to expect this extreme behavior is what is expected. See below:
Which extreme behaviour? Most packages will get upgraded, some downgraded. You can press '?' or 'v' before doing an upgrade. 'v' will show you a verbose list of what changes will happen on your installed packages.
=============== Is that all right?
Looks okay, but you really have to adapt your repositories. Regards -- Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM, AR <ar@nutzerverwaltung.de> wrote:
Am Montag 09 November 2009 21:50:37 schrieb Greg Freemyer:
Okay,
I decided to try out the <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2> process via zypper. (I had been testing wagon, because I assumed others were testing zyperr.)
I did the same a few days ago and all went fine.
I first updated my repos as requested in: <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2#CLI>
You have to, otherwise upgrading won't work ;) Don't forget your other repositories (Packman, KDE4 and all the others). You have to adapt repository Path to 11.2, too
I'm trying to follow the actual instructions which say to disable all repos. Then I added only the 3 11.2 repos listed. I had Packman / KDE4 etc. in my repo list for 11.1, but as of this test, they are all disabled, so I assume I don't have to adapt the paths until I want to enable them. Which for me will be after the upgrade.
It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.
At a minimum the Upgrade page needs to warn users to expect this extreme behavior is what is expected. See below:
Which extreme behaviour? Most packages will get upgraded, some downgraded. You can press '?' or 'v' before doing an upgrade. 'v' will show you a verbose list of what changes will happen on your installed packages.
I'm just trying upgrade one package "zypper". I was not expecting 172 MB of download and what looks like hundreds of packages to be upgraded / downgraded. Sure I expect that when I run "zypper dup", but I'm only at the "zypper in zypper" stage. And if it is right, then I think the wiki page should warn the user that this rather innocuous looking command to update a single small package is going to pull lots of data and packages.
=============== Is that all right?
Looks okay, but you really have to adapt your repositories.
Beyond what I already did? If you look at my original email just after the sig, I show that all the old repos were disabled and the 3 new 11.2 repos added and enabled. I think that is all that is needed. If not, the Upgrade instructions don't detail what is needed.
Regards
-- Axel
Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer a écrit :
I had Packman / KDE4 etc. in my repo list for 11.1, but as of this test, they are all disabled, so I assume I don't have to adapt the paths until I want to enable them. Which for me will be after the upgrade.
it seems to me that an upgrade will remove any non covered package (no more supported), so if you have packages that are only from packman, packman should be enabled (but of course, 11.2 version) the upgrade process is always tricky when packages are to be removed. Are these package essential? if they are not removed, must the old libraries be kept... that is why I realy fear upgrade and try to avoid them jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:01 PM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Greg Freemyer a écrit :
I had Packman / KDE4 etc. in my repo list for 11.1, but as of this test, they are all disabled, so I assume I don't have to adapt the paths until I want to enable them. Which for me will be after the upgrade.
it seems to me that an upgrade will remove any non covered package (no more supported), so if you have packages that are only from packman, packman should be enabled (but of course, 11.2 version)
the upgrade process is always tricky when packages are to be removed. Are these package essential? if they are not removed, must the old libraries be kept... that is why I realy fear upgrade and try to avoid them
jdd
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the packages it is removing did not come from packman. == The following packages are going to be REMOVED: 3ddiag kdebase3-SuSE kdebase3-SuSE-lang kdebluetooth kdebluetooth-lang kdepim3 kdepim3-kpilot kdepim3-notes kdm-branding-respin kgpg kitchensync kopete kopete-protocol-facebook libpackagekit-glib10 libstdc++43-32bit libxklavier uuid-runtime yast2-storage-lib == They just look like out of data packages that are no longer part of 11.2. And again remember all I'm trying to do is follow the 11.1 -> 11.2 instructions and upgrade zypper to zypper from 11.2 prior to running zypper dup. I swear I've done that numerous times in the past and never had that single command cascade into hundreds of package upgrades/downgrades/vendor changes/removes. See my original email for the full list. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Head of EDD Tape Extraction and Processing team Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer Preservation and Forensic processing of Exchange Repositories White Paper - <http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/tng_whitepaper_fpe.html> The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/10/2009 12:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:01 PM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Greg Freemyer a écrit :
I had Packman / KDE4 etc. in my repo list for 11.1, but as of this test, they are all disabled, so I assume I don't have to adapt the paths until I want to enable them. Which for me will be after the upgrade.
it seems to me that an upgrade will remove any non covered package (no more supported), so if you have packages that are only from packman, packman should be enabled (but of course, 11.2 version)
the upgrade process is always tricky when packages are to be removed. Are these package essential? if they are not removed, must the old libraries be kept... that is why I realy fear upgrade and try to avoid them
jdd
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the packages it is removing did not come from packman.
== The following packages are going to be REMOVED: 3ddiag kdebase3-SuSE kdebase3-SuSE-lang kdebluetooth kdebluetooth-lang kdepim3 kdepim3-kpilot kdepim3-notes kdm-branding-respin kgpg kitchensync kopete kopete-protocol-facebook libpackagekit-glib10 libstdc++43-32bit libxklavier uuid-runtime yast2-storage-lib ==
They just look like out of data packages that are no longer part of 11.2.
And again remember all I'm trying to do is follow the 11.1 -> 11.2 instructions and upgrade zypper to zypper from 11.2 prior to running zypper dup.
I swear I've done that numerous times in the past and never had that single command cascade into hundreds of package upgrades/downgrades/vendor changes/removes.
See my original email for the full list.
Greg
They should remind you that kde3 is no longer in the main repos and you need :- http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/openSUSE_11.2/ in order to keep kde3 with 11.2 Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 10:50 +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
On 11/10/2009 12:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
They should remind you that kde3 is no longer in the main repos and you need :-
Why would the upgrade of zypper have to do anything to kde3? It is a text mode application. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkr50tcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XetACdFYjmQ6o2+haFTFtDDBGWp1I6 vNIAoJMaqJp9qGFACd0qhpkMzWfkSnO/ =l1Fk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/10/2009 10:53 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 10:50 +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
On 11/10/2009 12:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
They should remind you that kde3 is no longer in the main repos and you need :-
Why would the upgrade of zypper have to do anything to kde3? It is a text mode application.
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAkr50tcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XetACdFYjmQ6o2+haFTFtDDBGWp1I6 vNIAoJMaqJp9qGFACd0qhpkMzWfkSnO/ =l1Fk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- zypper dup will remove kde3 if it's unsupported. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. write:
On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 10:50 +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
On 11/10/2009 12:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
They should remind you that kde3 is no longer in the main repos and you need :-
Why would the upgrade of zypper have to do anything to kde3? It is a text mode application.
Hi, it is quite simple. Answer is dependencies. After each update system still must working. You want update zypper -> require new libzypp -> I think that old yast bindings doesn't work with old libzypp due to ABI changes -> update yast -> new yast require new qt-bindings -> update qt -> and this leads to get remove kde3, because you don't have qt3 after this step ( I think it is related also to renaming of packages from name(name4 for kde4) to name3(name for kde4). so it naturally update to kde4 version your kde3 packages. -- Josef Reidinger YaST team maintainer of perl-Bootloader, YaST2-Repair, webyast (language,time,basesystem,ntp) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/11/2009 10:04 AM, Josef Reidinger wrote:
Carlos E. R. write:
On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 10:50 +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
On 11/10/2009 12:11 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
They should remind you that kde3 is no longer in the main repos and you need :-
Why would the upgrade of zypper have to do anything to kde3? It is a text mode application.
Hi, it is quite simple. Answer is dependencies. After each update system still must working. You want update zypper -> require new libzypp -> I think that old yast bindings doesn't work with old libzypp due to ABI changes -> update yast -> new yast require new qt-bindings -> update qt -> and this leads to get remove kde3, because you don't have qt3 after this step ( I think it is related also to renaming of packages from name(name4 for kde4) to name3(name for kde4). so it naturally update to kde4 version your kde3 packages.
I know it's not quite zypper dup but when I tried an update from 11.2 rc2 x86_64 dvd from rc1, I couldn't add any of my existing repos (http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=552439) and it wanted to remove most of my kde3 installation. Qt3 is still in 11.2 so it couldn't have been due to that so I assumed that it was because kde3 was no longer in 11.2 repo and thus an unsupported package. From experience when I have done a zypper dup and have disabled most of my extra repositories, I have had to renable them to prevent packages from being removed. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2009-11-11 at 09:04 +0100, Josef Reidinger wrote:
Carlos E. R. write:
Why would the upgrade of zypper have to do anything to kde3? It is a text mode application.
Hi, it is quite simple. Answer is dependencies. After each update system still must working.
System, yes... but not everything, a dup is something drastic.
You want update zypper -> require new libzypp -> I think that old yast bindings doesn't work with old libzypp due to ABI changes -> update yast ->
But why update yast? It was not requested. Sure, yast will not work - so what? If the user wants to update yast, he will do a zypper dup yast as well.
new yast require new qt-bindings -> update qt -> and this leads to get remove kde3, because you don't have qt3 after this step ( I think it is related also to renaming of packages from name(name4 for kde4) to name3(name for kde4). so it naturally update to kde4 version your kde3 packages.
Yes, obviously yast depends on libzypp, but not the other way round. I can understand that updating yast pulls all those deps, but as libzypp should not depend on yast, I still do not see why updating libzypp should pull yast. Maybe I misunderstand the way a dependency works :-? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkr7VIIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X7fQCaAquMd/VXtVaw7bBClfWkryL5 lS8An0rUP+Zg+I5N/1spoTtRYuBRZfmt =au8i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/12 Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net>:
Hi, it is quite simple. Answer is dependencies. After each update system still must working.
System, yes... but not everything, a dup is something drastic.
You want update zypper -> require new libzypp -> I think that old yast bindings doesn't work with old libzypp due to ABI changes -> update yast
Yes, obviously yast depends on libzypp, but not the other way round. I can understand that updating yast pulls all those deps, but as libzypp should not depend on yast, I still do not see why updating libzypp should pull yast.
Maybe I misunderstand the way a dependency works :-?
I guess it may be because "zypper dup" is not so special excepted at the moment, in general it's probably a good idea to have the package management tools having muually compatible versions during general usage. For example the Linux kernel cannot "depend" on glibc, yet if a version of glibc was installed that required a 2.6.42 kernel, then a sensible package manager is going to suggest doing that, or abandon the glibc update. Now, under the Fate item "Debian like dist-upgrade" when answering "what is the Debian way on the dist-upgrade", the last stage when a new version is available, before updating the 'sources' (Repository) list, was to make sure the system was fully up to date. That is for consistency, but also permits install of an upgrade kit should it be necessary. I think it's a flaw to install the new 'zypper' first, the one that has to run on the new system. In principal the dist-upgrade is happening on the current release. It would be possible for instance, for the last update to install extra 1 off, converstion utilities to mess with on-disk formats, hijack the shutdown or reboot process. Why should the 11.3 zypper be burdened for ever more, with the ability to prepare an 11.2 installation to 11.3? Surely the cruft belongs in the obsoleted release where the tasks is yet to happen. Perhaps updating the package tools, should be done, only when the upgrade is 'committed'. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hey Greg,
You have to, otherwise upgrading won't work ;) Don't forget your other repositories (Packman, KDE4 and all the others). You have to adapt repository Path to 11.2, too
I'm trying to follow the actual instructions which say to disable all repos. Then I added only the 3 11.2 repos listed.
In this case all other packages from those repos may behave unexpected, but
It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.
I skipped this information
I'm just trying upgrade one package "zypper". I was not expecting 172 MB of download and what looks like hundreds of packages to be upgraded / downgraded.
You can take a look on the list of depencies of zypper. Those packages have other dependencies as well. I am not surprised that hundrets of packages need to be upgraded and I suppose that's the reason why the new version of zypper is not available for 11.1.
If you look at my original email just after the sig, I show that all the old repos were disabled and the 3 new 11.2 repos added and enabled. I think that is all that is needed. If not, the Upgrade instructions don't detail what is needed.
I did my upgrade slightly different. I disabled some of my repositories but updated the most of them. Just in case you use KDE3 you have to update the repository because it is not longe available in main repos as Dave said. It may behave the same with other packages. Regards Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/10/2009 10:15 AM, A R wrote:
Hey Greg,
You have to, otherwise upgrading won't work ;) Don't forget your other repositories (Packman, KDE4 and all the others). You have to adapt repository Path to 11.2, too
I'm trying to follow the actual instructions which say to disable all repos. Then I added only the 3 11.2 repos listed.
In this case all other packages from those repos may behave unexpected, but
It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.
I skipped this information
I'm just trying upgrade one package "zypper". I was not expecting 172 MB of download and what looks like hundreds of packages to be upgraded / downgraded.
You can take a look on the list of depencies of zypper. Those packages have other dependencies as well. I am not surprised that hundrets of packages need to be upgraded and I suppose that's the reason why the new version of zypper is not available for 11.1.
Exactly. Zypper requires e.g. newer libzypp. And e.g. yast depends on libzypp - that's why many yast packages must be pulled in, too. And it goes similarly for the rest. -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)---
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Jano Kupec <jkupec@suse.cz> wrote:
On 11/10/2009 10:15 AM, A R wrote:
Hey Greg,
You have to, otherwise upgrading won't work ;) Don't forget your other repositories (Packman, KDE4 and all the others). You have to adapt repository Path to 11.2, too
I'm trying to follow the actual instructions which say to disable all repos. Then I added only the 3 11.2 repos listed.
In this case all other packages from those repos may behave unexpected, but
It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.
I skipped this information
I'm just trying upgrade one package "zypper". I was not expecting 172 MB of download and what looks like hundreds of packages to be upgraded / downgraded.
You can take a look on the list of depencies of zypper. Those packages have other dependencies as well. I am not surprised that hundrets of packages need to be upgraded and I suppose that's the reason why the new version of zypper is not available for 11.1.
Exactly. Zypper requires e.g. newer libzypp. And e.g. yast depends on libzypp - that's why many yast packages must be pulled in, too. And it goes similarly for the rest.
Thanks, re: the next upgrade cycle (11.3) It would seem to be a good goal that the 11.2 fully updated zypper be the official upgrade path to 11.3, not having users have to pull zypper from 11.3 to perform a supported upgrade. It is just one package, so surely it can be made sufficient to the task without forcing a full yast / kde update as a preliminary step in the upgrade process. re: current situation I added a comment to the Upgrade/11.2 wiki entry to say the "zypper in zypper" step may result in hundreds of packages being updated and take 10's of minutes to complete. At least then users following the wiki will not be surprised as I was by the large number of package modifications required by what appears to be a simple single package update command. ie. It took me 30 minutes to do that one step. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2009/11/10 14:01 (GMT-0500) Greg Freemyer composed:
I added a comment to the Upgrade/11.2 wiki entry to say the "zypper in zypper" step may result in hundreds of packages being updated and take 10's of minutes to complete.
At least then users following the wiki will not be surprised as I was by the large number of package modifications required by what appears to be a simple single package update command.
ie. It took me 30 minutes to do that one step.
I don't run into that. After I update the sources to the new locations & do zypper ref, and before zypper dup, I do something similar to as follows: zypper in rpm wget curl aria2 mkinitrd yast2-Bootloader zypper libzypp dbus-1 hal udev satsolver-tools openSUSE-release That seems to be roughly enough to ensure the dup works without problems with the package management system itself. -- The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 1 Corinthians 7:3 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
On 2009/11/10 14:01 (GMT-0500) Greg Freemyer composed:
I added a comment to the Upgrade/11.2 wiki entry to say the "zypper in zypper" step may result in hundreds of packages being updated and take 10's of minutes to complete.
At least then users following the wiki will not be surprised as I was by the large number of package modifications required by what appears to be a simple single package update command.
ie. It took me 30 minutes to do that one step.
I don't run into that. After I update the sources to the new locations & do zypper ref, and before zypper dup, I do something similar to as follows:
zypper in rpm wget curl aria2 mkinitrd yast2-Bootloader zypper libzypp dbus-1 hal udev satsolver-tools openSUSE-release
zypper is in the list of upgraded packages. When I pulled that from 11.2 repos, it took 30 full minutes to pull. And I was using a very lightly loaded T-1 to do the upgrade. It is not the end of the world, but it is also not very smooth. Of course, I'm now running zypper dup, and that is 4 hrs in and still running. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2009/11/10 19:52 (GMT-0500) Greg Freemyer composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
zypper in rpm wget curl aria2 mkinitrd yast2-Bootloader zypper libzypp dbus-1 hal udev satsolver-tools openSUSE-release
zypper is in the list of upgraded packages. When I pulled that from 11.2 repos, it took 30 full minutes to pull. And I was using a very lightly loaded T-1 to do the upgrade.
It is not the end of the world, but it is also not very smooth.
Of course, I'm now running zypper dup, and that is 4 hrs in and still running.
My point was the list of additionally pulled packages from that cmdline is normally small, in the 0-10 range, quite unlike the many it took you 30 minutes to do. -- The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 1 Corinthians 7:3 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 12:51 +0100, Jano Kupec wrote: ...
Exactly. Zypper requires e.g. newer libzypp. And e.g. yast depends on libzypp - that's why many yast packages must be pulled in, too. And it goes similarly for the rest.
But YaST is not being upgraded, only zypper. I think that zypper should add somehow (for 11.3) code to upgrade itself first (and only zypper and really needed libraries) as a prior and special step to a "dup". Similar to what YaST does when it sees an update to YaST: it download and installs first the changed YaST packages, restarts YaST, then restarts the upgrade, automatically. It could be part of the dup sequence, or a new parameter. And it should not touch anything else. It does not make much sense to start doing changes to things like kde with a zypper still not upgraded, and which could then do the wrong decisions. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkr52C0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WkzQCfS5F+DEwK8uiHzMos6fr0T0X8 hcMAoJGVNeHr8rkjkNihLRDyHNsWqsHW =/Xnp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Tuesday, 2009-11-10 at 12:51 +0100, Jano Kupec wrote:
...
Exactly. Zypper requires e.g. newer libzypp. And e.g. yast depends on libzypp - that's why many yast packages must be pulled in, too. And it goes similarly for the rest.
But YaST is not being upgraded, only zypper.
I think that zypper should add somehow (for 11.3) code to upgrade itself first (and only zypper and really needed libraries) as a prior and special step to a "dup". Similar to what YaST does when it sees an update to YaST: it download and installs first the changed YaST packages, restarts YaST, then restarts the upgrade, automatically.
It could be part of the dup sequence, or a new parameter.
And it should not touch anything else. It does not make much sense to start doing changes to things like kde with a zypper still not upgraded, and which could then do the wrong decisions.
I am in total agreement that this situation deserves special handling for the 11.3 release (too late for this one obviously.) The 2 obvious choices are: 1) Allow zypper to have feature improvements, not just security updates. That way zypper could be updated in the zypper dup process prior to the repos being changed out. 2) Do as Carlos suggests and have a special zypper -update-yourself-only function that did not run through the full solver and pull down half of the world. If the powers that be pick one or the other, I'd be happy to open a fate request. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Head of EDD Tape Extraction and Processing team Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer Preservation and Forensic processing of Exchange Repositories White Paper - <http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/tng_whitepaper_fpe.html> The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 03:50:37PM -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
I decided to try out the <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2> process via zypper. (I had been testing wagon, because I assumed others were testing zyperr.)
Remember upgrade via zypper dup and wagon are both now supported. This is not at all what I expected.
I first updated my repos as requested in: <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2#CLI>
I then disabled the old repos and added the 11.2 repos. (See detail 1 below my sig for exactly how my repos were setup.)
I then tried the last of the preparation steps:
zypper refresh # Refresh the local metadata and repo contents zypper in zypper # Pull in zypper from the 11.2 repository
It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.
Yep, and in my opinion not very user friendly. Instead, 'zypper dup' should install the new software stack into some tmp directory and rerun itself. Maybe for 11.3... Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/09/2009 09:50 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
Okay,
I decided to try out the <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2> process via zypper. (I had been testing wagon, because I assumed others were testing zyperr.)
Remember upgrade via zypper dup and wagon are both now supported. This is not at all what I expected.
I first updated my repos as requested in: <http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2#CLI>
I then disabled the old repos and added the 11.2 repos. (See detail 1 below my sig for exactly how my repos were setup.)
I then tried the last of the preparation steps:
zypper refresh # Refresh the local metadata and repo contents zypper in zypper # Pull in zypper from the 11.2 repository
It is the results of zypper in zypper that I find very unexpected.
At a minimum the Upgrade page needs to warn users to expect this extreme behavior is what is expected. See below:
gaf@tiger3-64bit:~> sudo zypper in zypper ... Overall download size: 172.8 M. After the operation, additional 53.4 M will be used. Continue? [Y/n/p/?]:
=============== Is that all right?
Maybe it is, but it's a lot of packages. I would at least be suspicious and tried to enter 'p' here (which is basically the same as 'n' and then 'zypper in --no-force-resolution zypper') to find out what triggered installation of those many packages. -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)---
participants (11)
-
A R -
AR
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Carlos E. R. -
Dave Plater -
Felix Miata -
Greg Freemyer -
Jano Kupec -
jdd -
Josef Reidinger -
Michael Schroeder -
Rob OpenSuSE