[opensuse-factory] YaST: highlights of development sprint 15
Three sprints in a row and we keep blogging about YaST development! https://lizards.opensuse.org/?p=11707 Enjoy -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 25.02.2016 13:05, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
we keep blogging about YaST development!
Awesome report! I wish more openSUSE teams would do this! :-) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 25/02/16 12:05, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
Three sprints in a row and we keep blogging about YaST development!
https://lizards.opensuse.org/?p=11707
Enjoy
Hi, Very useful report thank you. I am curious about the 'package notification' feature. How does libzypp/Zypper decides whether it needs to display a package notification or not? I presume it searches the RPM file for a specific file(s) as a hint for a notification? In other words, how can I make such a notification for one of my packages? Thank you. -- markos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Markos Chandras píše v Čt 25. 02. 2016 v 13:24 +0000:
On 25/02/16 12:05, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
Three sprints in a row and we keep blogging about YaST development!
https://lizards.opensuse.org/?p=11707
Enjoy
Hi,
Very useful report thank you. I am curious about the 'package notification' feature. How does libzypp/Zypper decides whether it needs to display a package notification or not? I presume it searches the RPM file for a specific file(s) as a hint for a notification? In other words, how can I make such a notification for one of my packages?
Thank you.
It is simple file in specified folder that gets detected by zypper. In /var/adm/update-messages/ you just create file like %{name}- %{version}-%{release} and you echo the message in it. Cheers Tom
On 25.2.2016 14:37, Tomas Chvatal wrote:
It is simple file in specified folder that gets detected by zypper. In /var/adm/update-messages/ you just create file like %{name}- %{version}-%{release} and you echo the message in it.
But please, do not use this feature unless it's really necessary. It's definitely not a way how to tell users that they should read man pages or documentation of your project. The more pop-ups and unnecessary information, the more unhappy users. Thanks Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, Systems Management (Yast) Team Leader SLE Department, SUSE Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Promise#Czech_Republic http://www.scouting.org/Visitor/WhyScouting/ServingOthers.aspx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le 25/02/2016 13:05, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa a écrit :
Three sprints in a row and we keep blogging about YaST development!
https://lizards.opensuse.org/?p=11707
Enjoy
thanks doing this. As you are working on the partitioning module, could you try to make clearer What "expert partitioning" is? I mean at install time. You have an "expert partitioning" (third option in the first partitioning screen) and an other (the right one) in the middle option. I can elaborate if you want there are still bugzilla entry https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=547703 and feature request https://features.opensuse.org/308150 but may be not exactly what I mean. but I also wrote a feature request 5 years ago: https://features.opensuse.org/311244 may be it's the moment to bring this up? thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le 25/02/2016 15:19, jdd a écrit :
may be it's the moment to bring this up?
I just got a new test with Leap, of the three options, the first (Edit Proposal Settings) is of no use there, and it's repeated on Create Partition Setup Expert Partitioner is not really for expert, as it simply shows the present situation *and mount points filled*, so it simply is a "Edit proposal Settings" Create Partition Setup first option: use disk: second option: true expert place so two possibility (among many): * very simple: just edit the first screen mockup, remove the menu entry "Edit Proposal Settings", change the menu entry "Expert Partitioner" to the name "Edit Proposal Settings". So two options in place of three... * much more work: do the first point, then rethink the "Create Partition Setup", select hard disk and go next (without selecting expert). This would need much more discussion, not fitted here and much more work. this makes expert seems to be a step more deep (but it was already there). Anyway no expert mode should be too easily accessible. (did not look at TW. Is your new work visible on some TW version?) thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/25/2016 03:56 PM, jdd wrote:
Le 25/02/2016 15:19, jdd a écrit :
may be it's the moment to bring this up?
I agree that part needs some love but...
I just got a new test with Leap,
of the three options, the first (Edit Proposal Settings) is of no use there, and it's repeated on Create Partition Setup
It offers a fast and easy way to select the default filesystem, to choose if you want a separate /home partition. I believe it's quite used, in fact.
Expert Partitioner
is not really for expert, as it simply shows the present situation *and mount points filled*, so it simply is a "Edit proposal Settings"
The expert partitioner allows you to create/resize/delete partitions, to define encryption, software RAID, LVM... Almost the opposite of "not for experts" or "simply shows the present situation".
Create Partition Setup
first option: use disk:
It's true that you can also reach the proposal settings from here. But I think there are some non-obvious differences.
second option: true expert place
This takes you to the same point than "expert partitioner". Why is this the "true" real expert place compared to the previous one? Is the same dialog with the same options.
so two possibility (among many):
* very simple: just edit the first screen mockup, remove the menu entry "Edit Proposal Settings", change the menu entry "Expert Partitioner" to the name "Edit Proposal Settings". So two options in place of three...
* much more work: do the first point, then rethink the "Create Partition Setup", select hard disk and go next (without selecting expert). This would need much more discussion, not fitted here and much more work.
this makes expert seems to be a step more deep (but it was already there). Anyway no expert mode should be too easily accessible.
(did not look at TW. Is your new work visible on some TW version?) thanks jdd
In short. Yes, this needs to be improved but we need a better analysis about the available options and why are they there. They are clearly counterintuitive, since I honestly think you misunderstood most of them. ;-) To late for this sprint (already started yesterday)... but maybe for the next one. Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:26:24 +0100 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> wrote:
On 02/25/2016 03:56 PM, jdd wrote:
Le 25/02/2016 15:19, jdd a écrit :
may be it's the moment to bring this up?
I agree that part needs some love but...
I just got a new test with Leap,
of the three options, the first (Edit Proposal Settings) is of no use there, and it's repeated on Create Partition Setup
It offers a fast and easy way to select the default filesystem, to choose if you want a separate /home partition. I believe it's quite used, in fact.
Expert Partitioner
is not really for expert, as it simply shows the present situation *and mount points filled*, so it simply is a "Edit proposal Settings"
The expert partitioner allows you to create/resize/delete partitions, to define encryption, software RAID, LVM... Almost the opposite of "not for experts" or "simply shows the present situation".
I think the main difference is that in Edit Proposal Settings we still guarantie that result will work and you do not commit suicide. Expert partitioner on other hand allows very complex setup and even if there is some popups for known problems, you still have razor in hand and can cut itself very hard that removes all data on all disks, remove OEM recovery partition that can fix it and also confuse BIOS or EFI so much, that it refuse to start your computer. And of course there is no guarantie that others module can work with your own expert storage configuration ( e.g. bootloader is quite sensitive if architecture require specific setup ).
Create Partition Setup
first option: use disk:
It's true that you can also reach the proposal settings from here. But I think there are some non-obvious differences.
I think we plan to discuss it in near future with our UI/UX expert who complain in past and suggest some improvements which we do not finish.
second option: true expert place
This takes you to the same point than "expert partitioner". Why is this the "true" real expert place compared to the previous one? Is the same dialog with the same options.
agreed, identical one.
so two possibility (among many):
* very simple: just edit the first screen mockup, remove the menu entry "Edit Proposal Settings", change the menu entry "Expert Partitioner" to the name "Edit Proposal Settings". So two options in place of three...
* much more work: do the first point, then rethink the "Create Partition Setup", select hard disk and go next (without selecting expert). This would need much more discussion, not fitted here and much more work.
this makes expert seems to be a step more deep (but it was already there). Anyway no expert mode should be too easily accessible.
(did not look at TW. Is your new work visible on some TW version?) thanks jdd
In short. Yes, this needs to be improved but we need a better analysis about the available options and why are they there. They are clearly counterintuitive, since I honestly think you misunderstood most of them. ;-)
To late for this sprint (already started yesterday)... but maybe for the next one.
I think plan is to do it together with new libstorage backend, so I hope there will be changed in near future. Josef
Cheers.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le 25/02/2016 17:45, Josef Reidinger a écrit :
I think the main difference is that in Edit Proposal Settings we still guarantie that result will work and you do not commit suicide.
it's not clear if what you edit is the present partitioning existing on the disk or the openSUSE proposal
Expert partitioner on other hand allows very complex setup and even if there is some popups for known problems, you still have razor in hand and can cut itself very hard that removes all data on all disks, remove OEM recovery partition that can fix it and also confuse BIOS or EFI so much, that it refuse to start your computer. And of course there is no guarantie that others module can work with your own expert storage configuration ( e.g. bootloader is quite sensitive if architecture require specific setup ).
it's what expert mean :-) - that why it's good that this option is not too visible :-)
I think we plan to discuss it in near future with our UI/UX expert who complain in past and suggest some improvements which we do not finish.
it's exactly what I want. Please make the discussion public, there are around here some good partitioning experts. I started studying partitions when writing the http://wiki.tldp.org/Partition-Rescue, but didn't follow this recently thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le 25/02/2016 17:26, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa a écrit :
On 02/25/2016 03:56 PM, jdd wrote:
of the three options, the first (Edit Proposal Settings) is of no use there, and it's repeated on Create Partition Setup
It offers a fast and easy way to select the default filesystem, to choose if you want a separate /home partition. I believe it's quite used, in fact.
never used it in 20 years (almost) So it's useful to * select if you want (or not) a seprate /home * select the filesystem type in fact nothing to do with the partitioning? Partitioning is essentially creating or deleting partitions, as fdisk do. Wording problem (minor)
Expert Partitioner
is not really for expert, as it simply shows the present situation *and mount points filled*, so it simply is a "Edit proposal Settings"
The expert partitioner allows you to create/resize/delete partitions, to define encryption, software RAID, LVM... Almost the opposite of "not for experts" or "simply shows the present situation".
it mostly oblige you to *remove* all these unwanted options. I often use disks with dozen of partitions, and want to choose my own, not ton use previous one. It's also disturbing because you don't know is what is proposed is the openSUSE guessed proposal or the present use/partitioning
Create Partition Setup
first option: use disk:
It's true that you can also reach the proposal settings from here. But I think there are some non-obvious differences.
really non obvious, same name, same options :-)
second option: true expert place
This takes you to the same point than "expert partitioner". Why is this the "true" real expert place compared to the previous one? Is the same dialog with the same options.
but not the same starting point. No mount point pré-installed (except swap that shouldn't for consistency)
In short. Yes, this needs to be improved but we need a better analysis about the available options and why are they there. They are clearly counterintuitive, since I honestly think you misunderstood most of them. ;-)
not a problem, I don't think my point is specially valuable
To late for this sprint (already started yesterday)... but maybe for the next one.
not a problem, we wait for a so long time. If you can spend some time on this part, it's very important, as it's the most dangerous part of the install. I find one of the most interesting part of openSUSE install *not* having the disk modified right at this moment, it allows last time mind change without disturbance. I install some debian recently and writing to the disk before an install summary is really bad. good job :-) thanks jhdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa composed on 2016-02-25 17:26 (UTC+0100):
jdd wrote:
may be it's the moment to bring this up?
I agree that part needs some love but...
I just got a new test with Leap,
of the three options, the first (Edit Proposal Settings) is of no use there, and it's repeated on Create Partition Setup
It offers a fast and easy way to select the default filesystem, to choose if you want a separate /home partition. I believe it's quite used, in fact.
Expert Partitioner
is not really for expert, as it simply shows the present situation *and mount points filled*, so it simply is a "Edit proposal Settings"
The expert partitioner allows you to create/resize/delete partitions, to define encryption, software RAID, LVM... Almost the opposite of "not for experts" or "simply shows the present situation".
Create Partition Setup
first option: use disk:
It's true that you can also reach the proposal settings from here. But I think there are some non-obvious differences.
second option: true expert place
This takes you to the same point than "expert partitioner". Why is this the "true" real expert place compared to the previous one? Is the same dialog with the same options.
Had I found it possible to use "Expert Partitioner" to do what I wished, there would have been no incentive for me to have filed these: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=547703 (filed 2009) https://features.opensuse.org/308150 (score 4) It's been a long time since I've selected "Expert Partitioner" except by accident, so I have no recollection what problem(s) or differences I found, or not. "Create Partition Setup" -> "Custom Partitioning (for experts)" has been the only way for me to get where I want to go. It's ironic that this is necessary, because I *always* wish to do no partitioning at all. All I ever actually want to do is specify mount points and mount options for the partitions that I have *always* during past couple of decades configured in advance of intializing any operating system installation. Mageia makes what I want easy, via installation cmdline startup option "readonly=1". Using it presents a "partitioning" screen that does this exactly, lists only native-type partitions with input field for mount point, with no confusing options or additional screens regarding actions leading to any partition table changes. http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Mdv/mgaReadonly1s2.png
so two possibility (among many):
* very simple: just edit the first screen mockup, remove the menu entry "Edit Proposal Settings", change the menu entry "Expert Partitioner" to the name "Edit Proposal Settings". So two options in place of three...
* much more work: do the first point, then rethink the "Create Partition Setup", select hard disk and go next (without selecting expert). This would need much more discussion, not fitted here and much more work.
this makes expert seems to be a step more deep (but it was already there). Anyway no expert mode should be too easily accessible.
(did not look at TW. Is your new work visible on some TW version?)
In short. Yes, this needs to be improved but we need a better analysis about the available options and why are they there. They are clearly counterintuitive, since I honestly think you misunderstood most of them. ;-)
To late for this sprint (already started yesterday)... but maybe for the next one.
Shouldn't be too late. URLs above are >5 years old, former created somewhere around the time of this thread starter: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2009-10/msg00019.html My personal archive of that thread contains 78 posts. It's OP at that point had a computer using history of more than two decades. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/25/2016 10:46 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa composed on 2016-02-25 17:26 (UTC+0100):
To late for this sprint (already started yesterday)... but maybe for the next one.
Shouldn't be too late. URLs above are >5 years old, former created somewhere around the time of this thread starter: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2009-10/msg00019.html
My personal archive of that thread contains 78 posts. It's OP at that point had a computer using history of more than two decades.
Which does not contradict my sentence "too late for this sprint". We are using developing sprints, which means we decide the top priority bugs/features and we focus on them for three weeks unless something REALLY urgent happens. The fact that an issue is old, does not mean it's considered a top priority for a given sprint. The fact that an issue is not considered top priority for the YaST team for a given sprint does not stop others to fix it. We don't mind loosing part of the mentioned focus in order to help others to implement something (which is completely different from implementing it ourselves). On the other hand, creating noise[1] about a certain bug or feature can increase its priority for an UPCOMING sprint. That's partially the goal of those reports, get feedback about the implemented stuff and what the users want/need. Thus, jdd's and Felix's comments are really appreciated and very valuable. That's what we write the reports for. Cheers [1] "Creating noise about X" means showing us that many users care about X. It does not mean that you start to complain over and over. :-) -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 02/25/2016 10:46 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa composed on 2016-02-25 17:26 (UTC+0100):
To late for this sprint (already started yesterday)... but maybe for the next one.
Shouldn't be too late. URLs above are >5 years old, former created somewhere around the time of this thread starter: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2009-10/msg00019.html
My personal archive of that thread contains 78 posts. It's OP at that point had a computer using history of more than two decades.
Which does not contradict my sentence "too late for this sprint". We are using developing sprints, which means we decide the top priority bugs/features and we focus on them for three weeks unless something REALLY urgent happens.
Felix, you might want to brush up on development methodologies, specifically "scrum" and/or other agile methodologies. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.7°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa -
Felix Miata -
Henne Vogelsang -
jdd -
Josef Reidinger -
Lukas Ocilka -
Markos Chandras -
Per Jessen -
Tomas Chvatal