El mié, 28 abr 2021 a las 9:33, Luna Jernberg (<droidbittin@gmail.com>) escribió:
I installed it today and the process worked fine, except the partition manager, which wanted to install Leap 15.3 on the Tumbleweed root partition (sda1) and must make a manual partition, formatting the old Leap 15.1 root partition (sdb1). The hardware detection worked fine. Yet begins the worst part: VLC is unable to play videos encoded with h264. I added the Packman repo, but the vlc and vlc-codecs packages aren't present on the repo at this time. Openshot is version 2.4.1 when the version 2.5.0 with hardware encoding and decoding has more than a year. Installing Openshot 2.5.1 from the build repo is not possible, because it needs Python(abi) 3.8, and the version installed by default is 3.6. When I started Firefox I got a warning to create a new profile, because the Firefox of Leap 15.3 is much older than the version 88 of Tumbleweed. When I started Tumbleweed and executed Firefox, it started with the empty configuration from the Firefox of Leap 15.3, and must edit the file /.mozilla/firefox/profiles.ini to get the original profile in Tumbleweed. I really don't understand why Leap uses such old libraries and applications. It is disappointing. Regards, Juan -- USA LINUX OPENSUSE QUE ES SOFTWARE LIBRE, NO NECESITAS PIRATEAR NADA Y NI TE VAS A PREOCUPAR MÁS POR LOS VIRUS Y SPYWARES: http://www.opensuse.org/es/ Puedes visitar mi blog en: http://jerbes.blogspot.com.ar/
IIRC, only -debug packages are published on 15.3 repo in packman atm. Packman team is investigating. Cheers, Guillaume
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Am Donnerstag, 29. April 2021, 19:03:07 CEST schrieb Luigi Baldoni:
Who's Bo? Nothing on https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Boo either. Cheers, Pete
On 5/1/21 5:16 PM, aplanas wrote:
We do, but we refer to bugzilla.opensuse.org as boo in package change logs so its probably what people generally mean. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 4/29/21 12:36 AM, Juan Erbes wrote:
That's the nature of Leap. Big updates take place only on major versions (eg. 15 -> 16). Minor versions are just non-disruptive updates for its corresponding major version, so it should be completely safe (and encouraged) to upgrade your 15.x version always to the latest minor. In other words, 15.1, 15.2 and 15.3 are just "service packs" on top of Leap 15, not a completely new and bleeding edge distribution. Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Software Solutions
Am Donnerstag, 29. April 2021, 09:42:38 CEST schrieb Ancor Gonzalez Sosa:
I think that statement needs a bit adjustment. Its the nature of *SLE* that base packages see only minor updates, but Leap was always fed from TW for applications (at least most of them) See: https://paste.opensuse.org/63245296 So it should be up to each maintainer to justify what application update is possible for Leap. I agree, that there are some areas in 15.3 where we are not up to date. But given the difficulties we saw to align the build streams, my feeling is that these difficulties have favoured the slow down.
In other words, 15.1, 15.2 and 15.3 are just "service packs" on top of Leap 15, not a completely new and bleeding edge distribution.
Right, Bleeding edge was never the target of Leap Cheers Axel
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:51:20 PM CEST Axel Braun wrote:
This image is really outdated after this one: https://www.suse.com/c/closing-the-leap-gap-src/ Leap 15.3 is not like the other openSUSE Leaps in terms of target and development model. -- SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 2:29:31 PM CEST Axel Braun wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 29. April 2021, 14:01:43 CEST schrieb Alberto Planas:
Not really if you look close to the picture!
Note that the Factory line goes to Backports only on the Leap side, and to the base system on the SLE side. Do not over-interpret it. The Closing the Leap Gap message was clear more than one year ago.
(Didnt read the text, but will do later)
Add this one too then: https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Leap/FAQ/ClosingTheLeapGap -- SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer
Am Donnerstag, 29. April 2021, 14:39:44 CEST schrieb Alberto Planas:
The factory line goes to Leap first, then via backports to package hub.
The Closing the Leap Gap message was clear more than one year ago.
I know, I discussed it from the early beginning.....and the message was not 'Leap, slow down to SLE pace' (in terms of applications, not base packages)
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Leap/FAQ/ ClosingTheLeapGap#Q._Would_I_be_able_to_add_my_own_packages_to_the_new_release. 3F -> Yes, the release would allow users/developers to add their own packages. https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Leap/FAQ/ ClosingTheLeapGap#Q._How_do_I_update_or_add_a_new_package_to_a_new_openSUSE_Leap. 3F -> In the end, the answer is pretty simply: You create a submit request against the next openSUSE Leap version. Thats what I did for 'my' applications, they are pretty much up to date in 15.3. But obviously we missed many package (KDE/qt just to mention one. AFAIK KDE was never part of SLE, only via backports). As said before, this 'miss' may be due to the difficulties in merging the SLE basis into Leap from the binary side. Leap users are mostly more 'conservative' (or these are installations where one does not want/need to look after frequently), but getting every year some version update is not too bad. The change from 15.2 to 15.3 would have been the right time. Otherwise we may lose a lot of frustrated users. So, lets think about how we can get updates in. Cheers Axel
Axel Braun schrieb:
Right now, openSUSE pretty much only has the two extremes in terms of distros: Tumbleweed as the really-fast-moving bleeding-edge kind of thing, the "rolling distro", and Leap as the "old and trusted" or sta(b)le model, what others tend to call "LTS" or "long-term-support". Leap 15.3 basically is just "Leap 15 plus some updates". If people want something in between, they need to take a look at other distro, most popular ones have that "in-between" model of "full update once or twice a year" as their standard offering, if you look e.g. at Fedora or Ubuntu, and then potentially one of the two extremes as a side offering. I'm not even sure if that's good or bad, as what I personally want is something really stable (but not spectacularly old) for my servers and something at the pulse of time for my GUI work machines, and openSUSE fits both those quite decently, so works very well for my personal use cases. That said, this may be different for others, and there's definitely a market for that middle ground as those other distros show - but then, maybe it wouldn't be good to take those one head to head anyhow. So there's good arguments for different options there... Robert Kaiser
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 7:44 PM Robert Kaiser <kairo@kairo.at> wrote:
I started using openSUSE when it was 11.4/12.1. It was up-to-date as Ubuntu, but rock solid as Debian. It was able to combine the best of two worlds. That was astonishing. Today, openSUSE Leap is still stable (it simply works), but not as up-to-date as it used to be. Sometimes I get newer software versions from Flatpak or openSUSE Build Service. Sometimes I compile software on my own. But for most of my use cases openSUSE Leap is good as is. Antonio The Linux Kamarada Project https://linuxkamarada.com/
On Thu 2021-04-29, Axel Braun wrote:
Thank you for that!
But obviously we missed many package (KDE/qt just to mention one. AFAIK KDE was never part of SLE, only via backports).
Up to and including SLES 11 KDE was part of the regular distribution; the change/consolidation came with version 12.
As said before, this 'miss' may be due to the difficulties in merging the SLE basis into Leap from the binary side.
...and merging from Leap 15.2 into SLE, which was some effort, too, from what I have heard. To some extent much of this hopefully was a kick off effort and things will be smoother going forward. One idea I had reading this thread is to establish a list of packages/ components that shall explicitly and transparently be considered for an update with every point release. And then do a little web page / Wiki whatever that shows plan and status: Something like Component curr avail Y/N status -----------+------+-------+---+--------------------------------- Digikam 83 91 Y already submitted, passes openQA KDE 47 49 ? awaiting update to Qt 2027 Qt 2001 2027 Y comes via SLE, prepared, two openQA failures Xaboom 432 500 N new version requires binary-only modules for the top 50 (or whatever number). That still requires volunteers to do the actual work (like you described above); it does help us keep things on the radar, documents decisions, and in turns supports timely and transparent discourse. What do you think? Gerald
Gerald Pfeifer wrote: <snip>
IMHO, this is a great idea. Speaking as someone fairly new to SUSE/openSUSE, I think that doing this will make contributing back to the project a bit easier. Often, when I look at Leap/SLE packages in the main repos, and some of them are out-of-date to a various degree, I am not sure if that's on purpose (kept on some version because the project that depends on it breaks with more recent one, or more recent library/application version breaks API/ABI, or something else outlined in the maintenance policy), or the update is on developers/maintainers huge TODO list, but they didn't get to it yet :) As for doing the work, that's, for the most part, pretty straightforward(and there are helpful souls on factory/OBS IRC channels that patiently answered my stupid questions/gave tips/clarified things and procedures). After being given access to something as awesome as b.o.o, it's only fair to give something back, to the best of my (and my potato PC) abilities, and I am fairly sure I am not the only one thinking that :) And having a list like this would certainly help with contributing back. Pedja
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 10:38 AM Gerald Pfeifer <gp@suse.com> wrote:
I like this idea. Most of the stuff I maintain is rebased for each point release for various reasons and it'd be nice to make sure everyone is properly aware so we can schedule it into the SLE development cycle, since I wind up crossing the boundaries between SLE and openSUSE every cycle and it turns into a mess each time. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
On 29/04/2021 15.47, Axel Braun wrote:
We are conservative because that is what we get... Previous to Leap the development model was to take a snapshot from factory, stabilize it, and publish. I liked that more than the current model. But I accept what I get, and I know it has some advantages. I'm not arguing for a return, but don't say we are conservatives. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Thu 2021-04-29, Alberto Planas wrote:
The latter image is not describing (let alone prescribing) a change in development methodology. It focuses on a different aspect, namely how SLE 15 SP3 and Leap 15.3 are aligned and parallel each other at a more detailed level - the two layers of the cake as I somehow call it. ;-) The original image focuses more on the evolution from one SP/minor version to the next (but doesn't cover how SLE descends from Tumbleweed, which is something I wanted to emphasize in the newer one). To me, both of them cover key aspects, just putting all of those into one image simply may become too complex. If someone has a good idea, I'd be excited! Gerald
El jue, 29 abr 2021 a las 8:51, Axel Braun (<axel.braun@gmx.de>) escribió:
Well, then Leap 15.3 "is a new distro", but with old libraries and applications! I am currently using Tumbleweed which I have to update every week. Until 2 months ago and for a year I had a 4G connection with which I had no flat rate and had to pay for data packages. I was looking for a modern distro that I don't have to be constantly updating to install on my friends' computers, but with the age of the Leap 15.3 applications, it seems it's not the one for them. Regards, Juan -- USA LINUX OPENSUSE QUE ES SOFTWARE LIBRE, NO NECESITAS PIRATEAR NADA Y NI TE VAS A PREOCUPAR MAS POR LOS VIRUS Y SPYWARES: http://www.opensuse.org/es/ Puedes visitar mi blog en: http://jerbes.blogspot.com.ar/
On 29/04/2021 13.51, Axel Braun wrote:
Sorry, this is not correct. Leap is not fed from TW, but from SLE. At least for the core packages: kernel, libraries, gnome... I don't know the list. Other packages, like KDE, are updated independently, could be taken from TW at some point.
The core of leap follows the service packs from SLE, same source code, and lately, binary compatible or the same. With 15.3 I'm lost. That explains why many people consider Leap (specially this year) ancient code (it is not that ancient for 15.0, but with each minor version it is more ancient). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Thu, 2021-04-29 at 13:51 +0200, Axel Braun wrote:
https://www.suse.com/c/how-suse-builds-its-enterprise-linux-distribution-par... this would be the refreshed content. I'll try to incorportate this to our wiki.
Am 29.04.21 um 00:36 schrieb Juan Erbes:
`Requires: python(abi) = 3.8` indicated that you are trying to install a Tumbleweed package. You can't mix Python packages from Tumbleweed and Leap. You have to use a package built against Leap, even the pure noarch ones: https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/multimedia:/apps/openSUSE_Leap_15... As Guillaume has already said, that's the nature of Leap. Except for the interpreter itself, all python packages in Leap 15.X are Python 3.6 based.
Regards, Juan
Cheers, Ben
El jue, 29 abr 2021 a las 8:09, Ben Greiner (<code@bnavigator.de>) escribió:
Thank You Ben! You are right! Cheers, Juan -- USA LINUX OPENSUSE QUE ES SOFTWARE LIBRE, NO NECESITAS PIRATEAR NADA Y NI TE VAS A PREOCUPAR MAS POR LOS VIRUS Y SPYWARES: http://www.opensuse.org/es/ Puedes visitar mi blog en: http://jerbes.blogspot.com.ar/Thank You Ben!
participants (21)
-
Alberto Planas -
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa -
Andrei Borzenkov -
aplanas
-
Atri Bhattacharya -
Axel Braun -
Ben Greiner -
Carlos E. R. -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Guillaume Gardet -
Hans-Peter Jansen -
James Knott -
Juan Erbes -
Linux Kamarada -
Lubos Kocman -
Luigi Baldoni -
Luna Jernberg -
Neal Gompa -
Predrag Ivanović -
Robert Kaiser -
Simon Lees