[opensuse-factory] How to name the baby
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name. A brief summary: Stephan as the release manager has decided that he will concentrate on building a distribution around the project known as openSUSE:42. In [1] he also tried to start the discussion about the naming of the new distro. However, this did get sidetracked rather quickly, thus, please focus on naming only. - - Not all questions for the new release have been answered, we do not need to revisit this. Some answers will only emerge as the baby starts to crawl and then walk.... - - Just because Stephan will take on the release manager responsibilities of a distro around the SLE sources does not preclude another person or team to build/release... a distro based on Factory snapshots. As the distribution is a representation of the project as a whole, i.e. all contributors, I think it is fair that people get an opportunity to weigh in with their concerns. This view may not be shared by everyone, so please bare with the rest of us as your mailbox once again fills up ;) However, to those participating in the discussion please focus on the name not on side issues. It has been advocated in other threads that a vote on the name should be considered as the final solution. There are reasonable arguments for and against such a direction. Thus, lets not focus on the voting part at this point either, lets just focus on the name and see where the discussion goes. If this should or should not be voted on can be a separate discussion once we collectively understand the concerns people have with respect to the name. In a "thread renaming" post we have had the following suggestion: * openSUSE Oak """" So how about Oak? It's a solid tree, it fits with the green theme and it will give us: * openSUSE Tumbleweed * openSUSE Oak """" "openSLES" has also been suggested a few times but lets just say that we will probably run afoul with a number of legal restrictions. Plus it is not really SLES, it is based on SLES sources and not a verbatim build of the SLES sources. My suggestion would be to focus on the name while considering that we should not create a name that would produce a potential conflict as described in [2], also consider the reply [3] So please lets focus on the name the child might have. State your case for the name you propose, include in the proposal a numbering scheme, if you think we should stick with numbers. Staring at 1 for a numbering scheme has rather obvious disadvantages, all other numbers are probably equally arbitrary, but you can certainly state the case why the number being proposed is favorable. I propose the above as the guidelines for the naming discussion. I will add my personal opinion about the name as a follow up post. Lets see if I can manage to stay within my own proposed guidelines ;) I apologize to those that are subscribed to both the -factory and the - -project list. However I know that there are a number of people that are not following -project but follow -factory, thus the cross post. As I mentioned, I believe that the distribution represents all of us and thus everyone should have their chance to weigh in on the name given to the baby that represents the community. Let the fun begin. Robert [1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-06/msg00203.html [2] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-06/msg00278.html [3] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-06/msg00280.html - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgJlWAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkO9gH/i/TzZ9ayW2m2LAOryTk1mPT 4nViWBbxPH9NA1QVMlTc+bGpauuny7VWDz1GSZgF6aNXu8RQA+FJ914H3DOOiGJP C8y8Ik2aLikWOjVU/ZkF9F3YOY/Qt/gdia1LVJQnz5l5EsA98vjLpjNjV3grDlTy jmwogwCrR8WUoPx2YPompuqxePeZTjNFcQpa5i76TQhXj+afX5FKKVxSlWQlra8Q iS+h/3ke+28hUvAAeSQk3ufbfiuSN+93JX7R01N/Ni+03KX5CR0asTk+Go2KZ91F aQnaEXNeWWVyAB21GOcAe5m5duKWgkB59A0Wu3EjiS4Y+2+kRssZ38dF8Y/dLrI= =183F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Don't have the time to comment on this whole thread (seriously? yet another long post...dude! ;)) but I do have two points I want to make very quickly 1. I think talking about naming anything is premature until we know what the landscape is going to be. Right now, we have Tumbleweed and the beginnings of a new Regular Release which is currently codenamed openSUSE:42. While there is obviously some people who would prefer to keep with the old way of distribution releases, we haven't seen anyone step up to actually do the work to continue that approach. I think the suggestion to maintain the openSUSE name only for the current-style of Regular release is foolish if there is no sign of that way of doing things continuing. So I think any decision about naming (and also versioning) is pointless until things are a little further down the road. This might be a good opportunity to kick around some names, but I certainly would strongly advocate no final decisions until we're much closer to releasing stuff. And for point #2, I have to point out something about one of the suggestions so far On 16 June 2015 at 23:47, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei@suse.com> wrote:
"openSLES" has also been suggested a few times but lets just say that we will probably run afoul with a number of legal restrictions. Plus it is not really SLES, it is based on SLES sources and not a verbatim build of the SLES sources.
openSUSE is a Registered Trademark which is jointly administered by SUSE & openSUSE through the Board. SLES is a Registered Trademark belonging to SUSE, and unlike the openSUSE mark, we (the openSUSE Project) have no established agreement to use the SLES Trademark. Discussions I've already had on this topic suggest to me that SUSE would be reluctant to give permission to the Project for the use of the SLES Mark, as it would be confusing both from a market standpoint, and a practical one (as Robert points out, it's based on SLES sources, not a verbatim build of SLES) So, please, consider any and all alternatives before this one -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/16/2015 06:07 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
Don't have the time to comment on this whole thread (seriously? yet another long post...dude! ;)) but I do have two points I want to make very quickly
1. I think talking about naming anything is premature until we know what the landscape is going to be.
Really? When do we ever know the landscape. Until oSC15 most people were most likely under the impression that we'd have openSUSE 13.3 late this year as a snapshot of Factory. The per-announcement at FOSDEM and some other rumors beforehand can certainly not, under any serious circumstances, be considered as an indicator for major upheaval to the release. Thus, I would say we really do not know the landscape, ever, until things actually happen. What we do know is that our release manager has announced that he will work on a distribution/release that is based on openSUSE:42 and thus I would say we can all pretty much infer from that that our current release manager will not have the time, energy, or interest to also work on "openSUSE Factory-based". This decision is from my point of view sufficient to come to terms about what the child should be named. If history is any indication we know that when Stephan puts his mind to something it is going to happen. Even in the most uncertain times somehow there was a release. Kudos to Stephan for all his hard work and dedication to the project, I doubt this will change. And during the times of the openSUSE team Kudos to their hard work on the release as well. Therefore, I would say it is a fair expectation that there will be a distribution ready for release based on :42. I am really not certain how much more of the landscape we need to know to give the child a name.
Right now, we have Tumbleweed and the beginnings of a new Regular Release which is currently codenamed openSUSE:42.
While there is obviously some people who would prefer to keep with the old way of distribution releases, we haven't seen anyone step up to actually do the work to continue that approach.
And why would that have to be right this minute? If it happens next year would you rather rename the new "regular" release again? Or have another naming discussion? Or worse discourage such potential efforts by saying the new child is called "openSUSE XY.z" and that's that? There should be the idea of putting things on equal footing to provide our users with the choice they desire and provide our contributors with the opportunities they deserve. Many things are implied by a name and this choice is important, IMHO.
I think the suggestion to maintain the openSUSE name only for the current-style of Regular release is foolish if there is no sign of that way of doing things continuing.
Well, one can call many things foolish. I guess trying to come up with a reasonable solution that considers many different concerns now falls into that category as well. By the way I did not propose to reserve the current naming for a potential future effort, I proposed to abandon it in favor of providing multiple efforts equal footing for equal naming rights. Maybe that is the foolish part. Please explain where the problem lies if it is called "openSUSE Forest" and there is no third distribution? Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgM/1AAoJEE4FgL32d2Ukxe8IAIrMWREfldbpwMSWL5f7pek/ SAf064lhlxXHJmlOfQxqhD6NZxlXVjzHpILwrELpP4Cmnn+OK4FgAPPRb2xPXGz5 9z5CdtKpcPY4oq8DQMnFQDM8wDOG0NUA5+Gnc9iWFiraq9JmZ2WOJu7M6x07Ae00 yErJ1Kg1wak3Xupp4WI8+tV1vN4iWg9zOiuy+M9Gb2Yxs0e3G+jqV+VwCzhaJQOM NsyItzVTyALrt4nh9oWs5qUOqvrPVEhPjZV2uKNpkmLu7g7uag+XQpldUDXR4YCC bPlAShCOI3trEIPl+eiYNuvFuod9cDtzr6Lbmtm2iZTUX5qq+oANIWDinJyiLIg= =N7lg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 00:07, Richard Brown wrote:
Don't have the time to comment on this whole thread (seriously? yet another long post...dude!
opensuse-project posts are anything but concise, so it does not seem surprising that only "6 out of 49" (or so) people responded to votes. ;^) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/16/2015 05:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name.
A brief summary:
Stephan as the release manager has decided that he will concentrate on building a distribution around the project known as openSUSE:42. In [1] he also tried to start the discussion about the naming of the new distro. However, this did get sidetracked rather quickly, thus, please focus on naming only.
- Not all questions for the new release have been answered, we do not need to revisit this. Some answers will only emerge as the baby starts to crawl and then walk.... - Just because Stephan will take on the release manager responsibilities of a distro around the SLE sources does not preclude another person or team to build/release... a distro based on Factory snapshots.
As the distribution is a representation of the project as a whole, i.e. all contributors, I think it is fair that people get an opportunity to weigh in with their concerns. This view may not be shared by everyone, so please bare with the rest of us as your mailbox once again fills up ;) However, to those participating in the discussion please focus on the name not on side issues.
It has been advocated in other threads that a vote on the name should be considered as the final solution. There are reasonable arguments for and against such a direction. Thus, lets not focus on the voting part at this point either, lets just focus on the name and see where the discussion goes. If this should or should not be voted on can be a separate discussion once we collectively understand the concerns people have with respect to the name.
In a "thread renaming" post we have had the following suggestion:
* openSUSE Oak
"""" So how about Oak? It's a solid tree, it fits with the green theme and it will give us:
* openSUSE Tumbleweed * openSUSE Oak """"
"openSLES" has also been suggested a few times but lets just say that we will probably run afoul with a number of legal restrictions. Plus it is not really SLES, it is based on SLES sources and not a verbatim build of the SLES sources.
My suggestion would be to focus on the name while considering that we should not create a name that would produce a potential conflict as described in [2], also consider the reply [3]
So please lets focus on the name the child might have. State your case for the name you propose, include in the proposal a numbering scheme, if you think we should stick with numbers.
Staring at 1 for a numbering scheme has rather obvious disadvantages, all other numbers are probably equally arbitrary, but you can certainly state the case why the number being proposed is favorable.
I propose the above as the guidelines for the naming discussion. I will add my personal opinion about the name as a follow up post. Lets see if I can manage to stay within my own proposed guidelines ;)
My comments on the name. I think with the developments as they present themselves we should abandon "openSUSE XY.Z" as a name and we should use names in the form of openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION This, IMHO, will have the effect that there is no finger pointing as in "why does this release team get the 'openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER' over another release team". I also believe that such a naming scheme will help us in the forming of a marketing campaign built around "The builders choice" tag line proposed at oSC15. openSUSE Tumbleweed - The builders choice for developers openSUSE XXX - The builders choice for sysdamins and devops, rock solid and long term support The choices are clearly differentiated by name and each has a specific target audience. I am using XXX as a place holder for the name of a distribution created around SLES sources. Last but not least I believe this allows us to avoid naming conflicts if/when a distribution based on Factory snapshots should emerge, reference [2] in the original e-mail. The "openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION" naming scheme will probably/hopefully not be perceived as a deterrent to such a possible effort and I think this is important. Numbering, given that 1 is not, IMHO, a good solution as a starting position given that we would soon repeat numbers used in the "openSUSE XY.Z" scheme and we have a history of doing quirky things I do like the idea of starting with 42. Given that all numbers after 1 as a starting position can probably be considered equally arbitrary as a selection I think 42 is just as good as any number and it is after all the "Answer to The Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything" ;) At this point I really have no strong preference about the middle part, Solar - ever lasting, green energy, shining bright Forest - green, stable ecosystem but new things growing/happening, diverse, sticks with the plant theme Thus, the name for the first release would be something like this openSUSE Oak 42 Then add .1, .2 etc as the base changes with SLE service pack releases and when SLE 13 becomes the base it turns into openSUSE Solar 43 AS I said, no strong preference yet on the middle part ;) That is my contribution to the naming I think I stayed reasonably within my own proposed guidelines ;) Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgKGxAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkFD4H/RlK6Op2kAVJ+6oGCMDVIJsE OsiFw835JZHt7o9vLkCQgit0PUl/g0WtFkR5fcKDPepO64mzIKzjNR7Sl7uPTFxy htKsUR/sir6r/WaEYZ0SNbeLgnOfFBFV+bzVJFOrE6mqO72g2PDb77mevwktyO/t nFIblKz05D29zgNQm5/LopKwq3uVa6/yfwokunSGvJdEUG6Rs8Y2wGhvnPnn9SzS /g6/xs+yk+J1Vgx6uFz06GCAcwqzhC6mK0/1AsCl6pmq7OU1ZhGKtfAUVG3cXwYD Tu8Uc/8rLkR2M5drt5dWM5rkQbt3YN5j+xOq57tmYJvvF8A3eqBevl9dMEtbdhw= =72T8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-17 00:22, Robert Schweikert wrote:
I think with the developments as they present themselves we should abandon "openSUSE XY.Z" as a name and we should use names in the form of
openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION
Yes, I agree.
Thus, the name for the first release would be something like this
openSUSE Oak 42
Not bad. I like it :-) Next, would be a numbering scheme for the future. 43, 44..? 42.01, 42.02...? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWBbxMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Wa+gCfULl1FfC57gPt8i3X8xEuI8F2 VyEAnjBEnpaFoHbkASzd3LCGUXk74PAO =oFLg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 14:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Next, would be a numbering scheme for the future. 43, 44..? 42.01, 42.02...?
Since openSUSE:42 is the *title*, any versioning off it would make for - openSUSE:42 1.0 - openSUSE:42 2.0 And now you see why there is so much confusion about using an integer as title. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2015 schrieb Jan Engelhardt:
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 14:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Next, would be a numbering scheme for the future. 43, 44..? 42.01, 42.02...?
Since openSUSE:42 is the *title*, any versioning off it would
No (at least IMHO) - openSUSE:42 is a working title saying something like - a future openSUSE version (> 13.2 = future) - includes big changes when compared to 13.2 (that's why it isn't increased only by one, but by a big number)
make for - openSUSE:42 1.0 - openSUSE:42 2.0
And now you see why there is so much confusion about using an integer as title.
I agree, such a numbering scheme would be terrible [1]. However, the scheme was never proposed this way - 42 was only meant as starting number and (if we use this scheme) will increase to openSUSE:43 with the next SLE release. Regards, Christian Boltz [1] see also: Typo3 ;-) -- Der Trick in dieser Welt ist herauszufinden, was man gerne tut, und dann noch jemanden zu finden, der einen dafür bezahlt. -- (unbekannt) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 16 June 2015 18:22:41 Robert Schweikert wrote:
I also believe that such a naming scheme will help us in the forming of a marketing campaign built around "The builders choice" tag line proposed at oSC15.
At oSC15 you presented the slogan as "the makers choice". While this might be close, exact words do matter in marketing. I'm not sure the proposed tag line should be part of the naming discussion, especially given this fuzziness. I also haven't seen much uptake on it, and for me personally it doesn't resonate. I think we do have a pretty clear vision for Tumbleweed. And an openSUSE distribution based on SLES also is a pretty clear vision. This should be enough to find a good name.
Thus, the name for the first release would be something like this
openSUSE Oak 42
Then add .1, .2 etc as the base changes with SLE service pack releases and when SLE 13 becomes the base it turns into
openSUSE Solar 43
AS I said, no strong preference yet on the middle part ;)
I like the scheme of having a separating middle name and Oak actually is one of the nicest proposals I have seen so far. I would not change it over time, though and reflect progress in the version number. So the middle name would reflect the nature of the release and the version what, well, version it is. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-06-17 15:47, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
I like the scheme of having a separating middle name and Oak actually is one of the nicest proposals I have seen so far. I would not change it over time, though and reflect progress in the version number. So the middle name would reflect the nature of the release and the version what, well, version it is.
Yes. And the number could have the decimal part showing which service pack the release derives from. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/17/2015 09:47 AM, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
On Tuesday 16 June 2015 18:22:41 Robert Schweikert wrote:
I also believe that such a naming scheme will help us in the forming of a marketing campaign built around "The builders choice" tag line proposed at oSC15.
At oSC15 you presented the slogan as "the makers choice". While this might be close, exact words do matter in marketing.
Yes, they do, my apologies I should have looked it up rather than going from memory. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgYGjAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkwG8H/RGofhbl2sqhSAU7fOLn2mtV SsmGO+BTX88KVQjzW6jncgbFZiFba+bfmjtSH9eoXV9dN0bcPpjEmHEl+8/koWyN ItSCls9aD2S0rleLH726Gev4jrXEwlhOwBwbBptuYO80Gat6AFq9fzsvEFj4E7T8 SsGkgTI8yVtMrYJvx6oHfTUEg7zGqWi0Cyv6hmJ4PFKDrGaT5TMaGI+TMGYqX3fy PoCF8X4SoWiX9tv60QEebIbEgWLT7QuzVsTzU2m1qKLcW/bb9wLqYHRsxUiFw/qv /aBtuD8cztQqa15Ya8fFw/jv1PT/FW3AI1DKaKLTJDmlImaBJo0qu6amP7jv3a0= =Bbhq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 16 juni 2015 17:47:02 schreef Robert Schweikert:
In a "thread renaming" post we have had the following suggestion:
* openSUSE Oak
"""" So how about Oak? It's a solid tree, it fits with the green theme and it will give us:
* openSUSE Tumbleweed * openSUSE Oak """"
where Oak would get an addition in a {SLE_versionno+30).{SLE_SP_versionno} ? IMHO a good pattern for naming, so we just have to agree on the tree type :D. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht Official openSUSE Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 16 June 2015 at 17:47, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei@suse.com> wrote:
In a "thread renaming" post we have had the following suggestion:
* openSUSE Oak
"""" So how about Oak? It's a solid tree, it fits with the green theme and it will give us:
* openSUSE Tumbleweed * openSUSE Oak """"
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed? The latter is well advertised as a rolling release so no number or anything is needed. The former uses the SLE Sources as a base and shows the similarity to its enterprise brother/cousin, we discussed at oSC15 using 42 as the name for the project in OBS and using it as the base for the release numbering. So as we were planning on releasing roughly at the same time as SLE12 SP1, then we would label it openSUSE 42.1; with the major number matching the SLE number denoting the tree from which it is spawned and the minor number lining up with the corresponding service pack. I don't get the fascination with "fixing" something that isn't broken. Nobody cared for the code names for each release since forever, what makes this any different. Lengthening the name is pointless and causes issues with macros etc. Regards, The Grumpy Curmudgeon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-17 17:57, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?
Because it is a variant of openSUSE... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWBwrUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UyuACfXMeKrUOaHlVoCkDHFLhGdW9V SA0AnRgHZ4LFirLJG1hFOQmtytXO8bnn =8DwJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2015-06-17 17:57, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?
Because it is a variant of openSUSE...
This is hardly a usable justficiation. I don't want any variants, I want _the original_. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-18 00:00, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because it is a variant of openSUSE...
This is hardly a usable justficiation.
I don't want any variants, I want _the original_.
Me too, but it will not be. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWB90sACgkQja8UbcUWM1wtMwD/UzS4Ns7R2Sg7928AciTJ+ZcE dSNRju808hEYm9C9NCIA/1Q949LxbRH4TgeHhJeLcfC/afv2gE9vUAS3TtJY2gXn =kSCE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2015-06-18 00:40, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because it is a variant of openSUSE... This is hardly a usable justficiation. I don't want any variants, I want _the original_.
Me too, but it will not be.
What do you mean by "it will not be"? Just because some SLE sources are used as base does not mean openSUSE is not openSUSE any longer, especially because SLE is from openSUSE anyway. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-18 01:06, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Thursday 2015-06-18 00:40, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because it is a variant of openSUSE... This is hardly a usable justficiation. I don't want any variants, I want _the original_.
Me too, but it will not be.
What do you mean by "it will not be"? Just because some SLE sources are used as base does not mean openSUSE is not openSUSE any longer, especially because SLE is from openSUSE anyway.
It will continue, yes, but not the original. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWCFBEACgkQja8UbcUWM1wwFAEAjz6kpPHL7XGpdBtmZycZep0u /qeenlUTRLtM8FvMxCoA/2NgNEuMBXhG/oieMKpPnRwwKEag2zd+0C5hTBKFGShI =BD+0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/17/2015 06:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-06-18 00:00, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because it is a variant of openSUSE...
This is hardly a usable justficiation.
I don't want any variants, I want _the original_.
Me too, but it will not be.
Well that will depend on the definition of what _the original_ means. This may be better debated in yet another thread. However, lets just get into this here. If we declare the release that SUSE paid employees release and maintain (security) as _the original_ and therefore declare this group of people as "special", i.e. they hold the monopoly on releasing things that are branded "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER", as in _the original_ then indeed a renaming would be out of place, and the new SLES source based release that is being worked on as :42 would be _the original_, aka "regular release". This naming "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER" is being advocated by some in the community, and there are certainly reasonable arguments for proceeding in that direction. However, if we come to the conclusion that no group of people should have "special" status (a question raised in one comment in some other thread), then the proposal of abandoning the "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER" name and having any and all distributions follow "openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION" is one potential option to communicate the equality of releases, equality as in "equally representative of all contributors". Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgf27AAoJEE4FgL32d2UkrCcH/004gHnzU229g3p69UJ1mZf9 J061Fzif1TKSfqkYkICA16xpu6KAv/zqr0ST+dXk2/opogMiV3YkPy0wSu7TsXVi 682Lsm1N24sFOXnH4ukVoeeKkpcqFo1ZhK5OodXaTdFi7BZ2dhZbjLwvwTHG+Vqg /wA0a8etYwFMYQ6yXQ+2SIBpTLeNFbOQK38QIHM8sU3V7e6LCuwABVmHFqr6jQKs vCvPZzzg6M4TFystOGmTCguc7uJLaA2mAGaYXphruyRJFprN60cErGN7F6UZJq3Y jQmTn0qGZm1uNis7nXWlOn/leeoh1FkPGQTtzQeyOUTNw3EuUS00bIWJqOSxMjM= =fdXs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-18 01:07, Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 06/17/2015 06:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2015-06-18 00:00, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because it is a variant of openSUSE...
This is hardly a usable justficiation.
I don't want any variants, I want _the original_.
Me too, but it will not be.
Well that will depend on the definition of what _the original_ means. This may be better debated in yet another thread. However, lets just get into this here.
To me the original is, more or less, what we had for many years. Yes, with modifications on how it was done, but based on factory. I'm not judging. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWCDSoACgkQja8UbcUWM1z+1gD/ZyvkGiVVhamLFvhqMdJNnGol dTu/7Tk6ewN3mt3+dtQA/RBIN39h3vQs2rglu4Jip8FtxRztcbTyCI8CbCuuJxAZ =wgmd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
If we declare the release that SUSE paid employees release and maintain (security) as _the original_ and therefore declare this group of people as "special", i.e. they hold the monopoly on releasing things that are branded "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER", as in _the original_ then indeed a renaming would be out of place, and the new SLES source based release that is being worked on as :42 would be _the original_, aka "regular release". This naming "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER" is being advocated by some in the community, and there are certainly reasonable arguments for proceeding in that direction.
Instead of categorising our existing Release/Maintainence team as "special" and implying it's a result of their employer, not the work they DO for the project, you could just as easily see this situation as "the current contributors responsible for the release integration, release, and maintenance of the openSUSE regular release want to develop future regular releases in a different way" In that frame of mind, this discussion about renaming starts to dance towards a situation where active contributors are having the name of the 'thing' which they work on being openly debated. I wonder whether a conclusion made by those debating would be easily accepted or acceptable to those doing the work in such circumstances? In short, I think this is another reason why I think it's best we leave the naming discussion until further down the road, when it's more necessary, and we have a better idea of what the openSUSE Project is actually producing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/18/2015 12:29 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
If we declare the release that SUSE paid employees release and maintain (security) as _the original_ and therefore declare this group of people as "special", i.e. they hold the monopoly on releasing things that are branded "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER", as in _the original_ then indeed a renaming would be out of place, and the new SLES source based release that is being worked on as :42 would be _the original_, aka "regular release". This naming "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER" is being advocated by some in the community, and there are certainly reasonable arguments for proceeding in that direction. Instead of categorising our existing Release/Maintainence team as "special" and implying it's a result of their employer, not the work they DO for the project, you could just as easily see this situation as "the current contributors responsible for the release integration, release, and maintenance of the openSUSE regular release want to develop future regular releases in a different way"
In that frame of mind, this discussion about renaming starts to dance towards a situation where active contributors are having the name of the 'thing' which they work on being openly debated. I wonder whether a conclusion made by those debating would be easily accepted or acceptable to those doing the work in such circumstances?
If it is not accepted it means they do not want to be part of this community and they should fork the project. This is why I am asking for a vote: to make clear what the majority wants. If the majority votes for openSUSE 42, everybody is happy. From when is voting something to be afraid of? Best, Angelos
In short, I think this is another reason why I think it's best we leave the naming discussion until further down the road, when it's more necessary, and we have a better idea of what the openSUSE Project is actually producing.
-- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 17 June 2015 11:57:03 Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?
The nature of the distribution has changed. openSUSE always was something like "latest stable". With Tumbleweed we have some "very latest" now. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is more like "stablest". To reflect this in the name will help us to communicate that we are doing something new (and hopefully better). There is this quote which applies here: "I don't know if it will become better when I change it, but I do know that it won't become better, if I don't change it" ;-) In some way we are doing Rock & Roll here. Tumbleweed is "openSUSE Roll", the rolling release. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is "openSUSE Rock", the rock-solid release. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 18.06.2015 11:27, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2015 11:57:03 Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?
The nature of the distribution has changed. openSUSE always was something like "latest stable". With Tumbleweed we have some "very latest" now. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is more like "stablest".
To reflect this in the name will help us to communicate that we are doing something new (and hopefully better). There is this quote which applies here: "I don't know if it will become better when I change it, but I do know that it won't become better, if I don't change it" ;-)
I agree (always wanted to do that :) Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 18 June 2015 at 05:27, Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2015 11:57:03 Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?
The nature of the distribution has changed. openSUSE always was something like "latest stable". With Tumbleweed we have some "very latest" now. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is more like "stablest".
To reflect this in the name will help us to communicate that we are doing something new (and hopefully better). There is this quote which applies here: "I don't know if it will become better when I change it, but I do know that it won't become better, if I don't change it" ;-)
In some way we are doing Rock & Roll here. Tumbleweed is "openSUSE Roll", the rolling release. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is "openSUSE Rock", the rock-solid release.
OK, that I understand and can get behind. Thanks for articulating it clearly, Cornelius. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Cornelius Schumacher composed on 2015-06-18 11:27 (UTC+0200):
Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?
The nature of the distribution has changed. openSUSE always was something like "latest stable". With Tumbleweed we have some "very latest" now. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is more like "stablest".
To reflect this in the name will help us to communicate that we are doing something new (and hopefully better). There is this quote which applies here: "I don't know if it will become better when I change it, but I do know that it won't become better, if I don't change it" ;-)
A new name is rarely something that makes anything better except in the eyes of naive marketers. It is something to make heritage disappear. A name change is the wrong way to communcate that something is different about something that evolves as a matter of its normal course of events. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/16/2015 11:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
In a "thread renaming" post we have had the following suggestion:
* openSUSE Oak
"""" So how about Oak? It's a solid tree, it fits with the green theme and it will give us:
* openSUSE Tumbleweed * openSUSE Oak I like openSUSE Oak. Its consistent wrt Tumbleweed.
I do not like openSUSE Stable. IMHO if that were to be the approach, then to be consistent openSUSE Tumbleweed would best be renamed to openSUSE Rolling-release, which I dislike as I prefer less than Tumbleweed. Even without that consideration, I like "openSUSE oak". I like the symbolism that goes with the 'oak tree' selection. Lee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 06/16/2015 05:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion, we mostly stayed on track and thus it makes it not too difficult for me to try and pull things together. I think we have lots of ideas and it is time to move from discussions and proposal to action and come to a decision. This is a summary, thus not ever aspect or all proposals will be mentioned explicitly ;) In general it appears that the majority of those participating in the discussion is in agreement that the new release should follow openSUSE <SOME_NAME> <SOME_VERSION> Additionally it appears that we agree that <SOME_NAME> should not change from release to release, thus creating a consistent naming scheme for this releases matching the idea with Tumbleweed openSUSE Tumbleweed <VERSION_IS_SNAPSHOT_DATE> openSUSE <SOME_NAME> <SOME_VERSION> Now of course the tougher part is <SOME_NAME> and <SOME_VERSION>. Lets start with <SOME_NAME>. To stick with the "green" and "plant" theme we had <SOME_NAME> proposed as Oak, Fir, <any_other_tree_known>, with some latin thrown in I would summarize the associations one would go for with the choice of tree name as follows: - - stable, strong, longevity - From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses. A play on words and also playing on duality of two releases was the Rock & Roll naming, i.e. openSUSE Roll <VERSION_IS_SNAPSHOT_DATE> (this would be for Tumbleweed) openSUSE Rock <SOME_VERSION> (this would be the new release) This also had positive responses, although there appeared to be the underlying concern that Tumbleweed would need to be re-named as well and Tumbleweed has become a pretty recognized name. As a third theme a reference to motion was introduced as openSUSE Leap <SOME_VERSION> turns out that Leap also made a nice acronym. I would say that these themes received the most discussion. We had a number of other suggestions with replies. If the name you suggested is not listed explicitly in this summary, sorry. On the <SOME_VERSION> topic it appears that we all agree that the starting version is more or less an arbitrary choice. Most proposals did contain a . in the version which was most often related to the SLE service packs that provide the underlying sources. Thus it would be x.1 for a release based on SP1 sources, then .2 and so on with X incrementing when a completely new source base is available, such as SLE 13 in the future. With X being arbitrary 42, as the project name in OBS and having historical reference in quirkiness in openSUSE appears to have found acceptance. Although starting at 1 is of course just as feasible or even at 12. My gut feel is that people were slightly leaning more toward 42 vs. 1 or 12. Now we need to look at the timing and how we come up with the final name . As a release is targeted for the not too distant future and a milestone is close it would be great to have the milestone released with the final name. The board has been approach to facilitate a quick decision about the name. The board is generally open to have a community vote on the name, with a restricted list based on the summary above. The other option would be for the board to make the name decision. If there is a vote it would have to be a restricted timescale vote due to the timing with a voting period of about 1 week (7 days). Later complaints about "I had no time it was too short" would be considered as bikeshedding. Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVktYtAAoJEE4FgL32d2UktKUH/0SlSG5J7PPMP9EWrpbfhxdz LKxfIXqN118ray4mUG3mzlORy5CtsAep3JxbIQFZq+C+txKBMZTcUny4Kz61lGwT 5YEmAtDZencjGx/6eomihn7ThgTKUv57GHQ8eY6oV9JiIbWEPefHu2uGRj/W9P/L y/Qfem4kLCF02MB7I3evZUpNsEtGJCKoH/UJ4/Lll7V9RKotGeldfhIB6iMgcb+A p/GgO8js44vbg8uWSIMSPdpd6ho/j3r1BqndsX9DF7nduZ16DRBpRIhra3aiEX1q Qp9R0AnUCojHk70WRDPwUmkNzKNs71/ig7r6wCE38//1esEgt0kGXEn4PxiUCPQ= =I+qR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Am 30.06.2015 um 19:47 schrieb Robert Schweikert:
Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.
Very much appreciated. Thanks Robert for the summary and the action. Greetings, Stephan - -- Ma muaß weiterkämpfen, kämpfen bis zum Umfalln, a wenn die ganze Welt an Arsch offen hat, oder grad deswegn. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlWS13AACgkQwFSBhlBjoJZpyACgshSOksw+HpfePPpKnt9qET0P TygAoKe+5KpVgJIifYo7tOwseJOG2GKf =nmpD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Thank you Robert, I would prefer the community to vote on the new name (and possibly the starting number too). Best, Angelos On 06/30/2015 08:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Hi,
On 06/16/2015 05:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion, we mostly stayed on track and thus it makes it not too difficult for me to try and pull things together. I think we have lots of ideas and it is time to move from discussions and proposal to action and come to a decision. This is a summary, thus not ever aspect or all proposals will be mentioned explicitly ;)
In general it appears that the majority of those participating in the discussion is in agreement that the new release should follow
openSUSE <SOME_NAME> <SOME_VERSION>
Additionally it appears that we agree that <SOME_NAME> should not change from release to release, thus creating a consistent naming scheme for this releases matching the idea with Tumbleweed
openSUSE Tumbleweed <VERSION_IS_SNAPSHOT_DATE> openSUSE <SOME_NAME> <SOME_VERSION>
Now of course the tougher part is <SOME_NAME> and <SOME_VERSION>. Lets start with <SOME_NAME>. To stick with the "green" and "plant" theme we had <SOME_NAME> proposed as
Oak, Fir, <any_other_tree_known>, with some latin thrown in
I would summarize the associations one would go for with the choice of tree name as follows:
- - stable, strong, longevity
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words and also playing on duality of two releases was the Rock & Roll naming, i.e.
openSUSE Roll <VERSION_IS_SNAPSHOT_DATE> (this would be for Tumbleweed) openSUSE Rock <SOME_VERSION> (this would be the new release)
This also had positive responses, although there appeared to be the underlying concern that Tumbleweed would need to be re-named as well and Tumbleweed has become a pretty recognized name.
As a third theme a reference to motion was introduced as
openSUSE Leap <SOME_VERSION>
turns out that Leap also made a nice acronym.
I would say that these themes received the most discussion. We had a number of other suggestions with replies. If the name you suggested is not listed explicitly in this summary, sorry.
On the <SOME_VERSION> topic it appears that we all agree that the starting version is more or less an arbitrary choice. Most proposals did contain a . in the version which was most often related to the SLE service packs that provide the underlying sources. Thus it would be
x.1
for a release based on SP1 sources, then .2 and so on with X incrementing when a completely new source base is available, such as SLE 13 in the future. With X being arbitrary 42, as the project name in OBS and having historical reference in quirkiness in openSUSE appears to have found acceptance. Although starting at 1 is of course just as feasible or even at 12.
My gut feel is that people were slightly leaning more toward 42 vs. 1 or 12.
Now we need to look at the timing and how we come up with the final name .
As a release is targeted for the not too distant future and a milestone is close it would be great to have the milestone released with the final name. The board has been approach to facilitate a quick decision about the name.
The board is generally open to have a community vote on the name, with a restricted list based on the summary above. The other option would be for the board to make the name decision. If there is a vote it would have to be a restricted timescale vote due to the timing with a voting period of about 1 week (7 days). Later complaints about "I had no time it was too short" would be considered as bikeshedding.
Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.
Later, Robert
- -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2
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-- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei@suse.com> wrote:
Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.
I would prefer to see the board vote. In my ideal, a simple wiki page would be setup where the proponent of each name would put a paragraph or two describing why they think the name is the best choice. The board would then review the proposals and narrow it down to a winner. That not only makes the process faster, it means the voters will be truly taking time to consider the best option. Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2015-06-30 at 14:27 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei@suse.com> wrote:
Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.
I would prefer to see the board vote.
In my ideal, a simple wiki page would be setup where the proponent of each name would put a paragraph or two describing why they think the name is the best choice.
The board would then review the proposals and narrow it down to a winner.
That not only makes the process faster, it means the voters will be truly taking time to consider the best option.
I added my reasons for favoring Oak to the wiki page that already exists for "status of discussions" for 42: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:42 This can also be useful for people if there's a vote. (As for the vote vs. board decision, I have no opinion) Rolf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 2015-06-30 19:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:
[...] Given that we had [many] options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.
I would like the board to make the vote, and, in addition, I recommend to the board members to pick Oak. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-30 19:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.
2 options: * general, all public vote, followed by a member only vote, as was done the previous time. or * member only vote, to make it quicker. I would not like the board making the decision. However, it could be a first round of membership vote, then if the result is not clear, the board makes the quality vote. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWTB9sACgkQja8UbcUWM1z53gEAjsfZVKsGGXzD1oE/M4ueM0W7 bSuhDFjv5DWxmsD2fwgBAJx1YRS0u2P/kuJrIl58WjloVJOypuSB818zaZ3L+CM8 =fQR6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 23:19:23 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:
* member only vote, to make it quicker.
I would not like the board making the decision. However, it could be a first round of membership vote, then if the result is not clear, the board makes the quality vote.
I like this one. -- WBR Kyrill
Hello, On Jun 30 13:47 Robert Schweikert wrote (excerpt):
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words ...
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages? FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German. As background info see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Pajero ---------------------------------------------------------- Mitsubishi Pajero ... alternative names have been used for many markets overseas. It is known as the Mitsubishi Montero (meaning "mountain hunter") in Spain ---------------------------------------------------------- then Google for "pajero spanish meaning" ;-) Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-01 11:28, Johannes Meixner wrote:
Hello,
On Jun 30 13:47 Robert Schweikert wrote (excerpt):
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words ...
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages?
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
Nor in Spanish. I have only found a clothes shop by that name in Madrid. Another shells wine closets. ...
then Google for "pajero spanish meaning" ;-)
;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWTtFMACgkQja8UbcUWM1xGXwD/c32+SzGKiuwKdkiQhRSqNGTk fb5o6fwbWChTLDb/xxwA/AwvdS0SOpWt5uyQsLtx9LM4vwgNqQ4ErqlvgImlliP0 =gbMA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Johannes Meixner <jsmeix@suse.de>:
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages?
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
The only special meaning I'm aware of is the 'Russian' variant (spelt оак instead of oak, but I guess that's easy enough to confuse). But even there it's nothing bad, it's just the acronym for the "United Aircraft Corporation" (or, in Russian, Объединённая Авиастроительная Корпорация ) I guess Mr. Putin (the founder of the corporation) won't mind the similarity... anyway, the Oak-Trees existed before :) Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 01 Jul 2015 09:51:14 +0000 Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
The only special meaning I'm aware of is the 'Russian' variant (spelt оак instead of oak, but I guess that's easy enough to confus e). But even there it's nothing bad, it's just the acronym for the "United Aircraft Corporation"
Don't think the Russians are so stupid not to understand a difference between "oak" and "ОАК".
(or, in Russian, ___________ _____________ ___________ _____________________ ____________________ )
This isn't in Russian.
I guess Mr. Putin (the founder of the corporation) won't mind the similarity... anyway, the Oak-Trees existed before :)
Correction: "President Putin". -- WBR Kyrill
On Wednesday 2015-07-01 11:28, Johannes Meixner wrote:
On Jun 30 13:47 Robert Schweikert wrote (excerpt):
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words ...
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages?
Don't stretch it. Someone will always be offended by something, by definition. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, On Jul 1 11:56 Jan Engelhardt wrote (excerpt):
Someone will always be offended by something, by definition.
You misunderstood my intent. My intent is to avoid that openSUSE could become "offended" by an unexpected bad meaning of one of its products. "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux." Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 01.07.2015 11:28, Johannes Meixner wrote:
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
That depends on your definition of bad. Oaks have a pretty old and deep right-wing touch in Germany. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, On Jul 1 12:05 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 01.07.2015 11:28, Johannes Meixner wrote:
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
That depends on your definition of bad. Oaks have a pretty old and deep right-wing touch in Germany.
Probably when right-wing Germans get the word "Eiche" (German for "Oak") in their mind (do they have a mind regardless that they have no brain?), they imagine "strange things". But you misquoted me. I wrote intentionally "whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning" At least when I get the word "Oak" in my mind there is not any bad mental connection with that word. In contrast when I get the word "Eiche" in my mind I may imagine an old-style heavyweight bombastic wall unit but even that is no actual bad meaning - regardless that personally I do not like such kind of furniture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_unit#/media/File:Wall_unit.jpg Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Op woensdag 1 juli 2015 11:28:38 schreef Johannes Meixner:
Hello,
On Jun 30 13:47 Robert Schweikert wrote (excerpt):
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words ...
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages?
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
As background info see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Pajero ---------------------------------------------------------- Mitsubishi Pajero ... alternative names have been used for many markets overseas. It is known as the Mitsubishi Montero (meaning "mountain hunter") in Spain ---------------------------------------------------------- then Google for "pajero spanish meaning" ;-)
Kind Regards Johannes Meixner
Nothing wrong with "Oak" in dutch -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht Official openSUSE Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 01.07.2015 11:28, Johannes Meixner wrote:
Hello,
On Jun 30 13:47 Robert Schweikert wrote (excerpt):
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words ...
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages?
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
Only speak for high german though. In low german it means "just so" - it's not exactly bad, but not a great product name either ;) A typical conversation between 2 old men walking the dog at the dyke: A: moin B: moin A: all goot? B: sülvst? A: ook (done, all said) Sorry, couldn't resist ;) Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.de> wrote:
On 01.07.2015 11:28, Johannes Meixner wrote:
Hello,
On Jun 30 13:47 Robert Schweikert wrote (excerpt):
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words ...
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages?
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
Only speak for high german though. In low german it means "just so" - it's not exactly bad, but not a great product name either ;)
A typical conversation between 2 old men walking the dog at the dyke:
A: moin B: moin A: all goot? B: sülvst? A: ook (done, all said)
Sorry, couldn't resist ;)
:) I do not see ook in Plattdeutsch dictionary though: http://www.platt-wb.de/platt-hoch/?term=ook -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 02.07.2015 10:49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.de> wrote:
On 01.07.2015 11:28, Johannes Meixner wrote:
Hello,
On Jun 30 13:47 Robert Schweikert wrote (excerpt):
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words ...
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages?
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
Only speak for high german though. In low german it means "just so" - it's not exactly bad, but not a great product name either ;)
A typical conversation between 2 old men walking the dog at the dyke:
A: moin B: moin A: all goot? B: sülvst? A: ook (done, all said)
Sorry, couldn't resist ;)
:)
I do not see ook in Plattdeutsch dictionary though: http://www.platt-wb.de/platt-hoch/?term=ook
They write it as "ok" there - but it's pronounced the same as oak Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2015-07-02 11:02, Stephan Kulow wrote:
B: sülvst? A: ook
I do not see ook in Plattdeutsch dictionary though: http://www.platt-wb.de/platt-hoch/?term=ook
They write it as "ok" there - but it's pronounced the same as oak
The platt dic does not give IPA readings, but since Platt "ok" relates to Nordic òg, I would rather expect it to be {/oːg/}. Cf. {/oʊk/,/əʊk/} for the tree. Then again, I'm probably the .1% percentile that would care ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Op donderdag 2 juli 2015 11:02:54 schreef Stephan Kulow:
On 02.07.2015 10:49, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.de> wrote:
On 01.07.2015 11:28, Johannes Meixner wrote:
Hello,
On Jun 30 13:47 Robert Schweikert wrote (excerpt):
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
A play on words ...
Could it be checked whether or not the word "Oak" (as is) might have an unacceptable bad meaning in other common non-English languages?
FYI: "Oak" does not have a bad meaning in German.
Only speak for high german though. In low german it means "just so" - it's not exactly bad, but not a great product name either ;)
A typical conversation between 2 old men walking the dog at the dyke:
A: moin B: moin A: all goot? B: sülvst? A: ook (done, all said)
Sorry, couldn't resist ;)
:)
I do not see ook in Plattdeutsch dictionary though: http://www.platt-wb.de/platt-hoch/?term=ook
They write it as "ok" there - but it's pronounced the same as oak
Greetings, Stephan
Well, OK, we do have "ook", meaning "as well" or "too". :D. The conversation above could very well have taken place in our province, ~same words used. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht Official openSUSE Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 09:18, Stephan Kulow wrote:
A typical conversation between 2 old men walking the dog at the dyke:
A: moin B: moin A: all goot? B: sülvst? A: ook (done, all said)
Sorry, couldn't resist ;)
LOL. Try to feed that to Google Translate ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVB/AACgkQja8UbcUWM1x51QD/T2xnYDmXt7sNCXAEZoK8NDtK /BP63HElBlficfrCBPwA/15WfdVf+ax5dRdBBJQii2n+hkLunGmgO4Ev8gY95U0j =AELc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
There's one problem I foresee with 'Oak' that Leap doesn't suffer from With Oak, there will be a tendency to consider other 'Tree names' for each release I don't want to go through an exercise every 3 years of having to deal with a long and arduous debate to figure out which 'Tree' is the best name for an openSUSE-based-on-SLE13, or 14..or 15.. And even if we firmly decide that Oak is a name we'll keep for a stable release, they'll be a tendency to want to use Tree-based-naming for other things we do..and, meh, I just dont like that either. That's one reason (among others which others have already stated) I strongly prefer "Leap" over "Oak". It describes the release process (big jumps every few years), carries positive connotations ("a giant leap for openSUSE-kind"), is certainly forward looking and not stationary like a tree -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 13:50, Richard Brown wrote:
There's one problem I foresee with 'Oak' that Leap doesn't suffer from
With Oak, there will be a tendency to consider other 'Tree names' for each release
No, the tree name is for the kind of the distribution. Not tree, but plant or something vegetable: evergreen, tumbleweed, oak... The release would be a number. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVKVkACgkQja8UbcUWM1wJOQEAg84MxMZhLOyhIvm4+MVIIUYy fyzaY6nPqWhWUNOx2o4A/icm0PO8AqHMvE7KD9SQ45ZmQ1PpDPQvmDT4Ls+DQcAx =gDrM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2015-07-02 13:50, Richard Brown wrote:
There's one problem I foresee with 'Oak' that Leap doesn't suffer from
With Oak, there will be a tendency to consider other 'Tree names' for each release
And with Leap, there will be a tendency to go for something else. "Giant Leap (for mankind)" is also sometimes recognized as "giant lie", and so on. It's an always-lose situation, and that is why dropping the <SOME_NAME> bit and blessing it as "the one special" openSUSE, is the other reasonable option. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Vote or board? Board decision -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht Official openSUSE Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Robert Schweikert schrieb:
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
For me, an oak represents something old-fashioned that will never adjust to the times and is very stubborn. Not something I would want to connect with technology at all. As a side note, the color I'd associate with an oak is gray, while it would be better to associate "green" with openSUSE stuff (but then, tumbleweed is mostly brown). KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hello Oak in Afrikaans (oke) means guy, man (familiar talk) quite ok neutral word, but used a lot (more than Oak actually :-) On another note, i personally like that things a are named after what they are, so OpenSUSE stable and OpenSUSE rolling would be my preferences over tubleweed and Oak I know it is fashionable with codenames, but it alienates those only remotely related (and often most in numbers) and makes the issue just a little less accessible, which is against the wish of OpenSUSE (i hope :-). But i know i am far from majority with that opinion :-) Good luck choosing Thomas
On 7/1/2015 at 02:46 PM, Robert Kaiser <kairo@kairo.at> wrote:
Robert Schweikert schrieb:
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
For me, an oak represents something old-fashioned that will never adjust to the times and is very stubborn. Not something I would want to connect with technology at all. As a side note, the color I'd associate with an oak is gray, while it would be better to associate "green" with openSUSE stuff (but then, tumbleweed is mostly brown). KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 01.07.2015 um 14:58 schrieb Thomas Nielsen:
Hello Oak in Afrikaans (oke) means guy, man (familiar talk) quite ok neutral word, but used a lot (more than Oak actually :-) On another note, i personally like that things a are named after what they are, so OpenSUSE stable and OpenSUSE rolling
That's why i suggested "openSUSE Boring X.Y", a suggestion that has been totally ignored :-P Because IMO that's what that release should be for the common user: boring, in the sense that no unexpected breakages happen ever. But I don't really care too much about names, as long as there is a version number attached that lets us specify exactly which revision one is talking about. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Út 30. června 2015 13:47:25, Robert Schweikert napsal(a):
As a release is targeted for the not too distant future and a milestone is close it would be great to have the milestone released with the final name. The board has been approach to facilitate a quick decision about the name.
The board is generally open to have a community vote on the name, with a restricted list based on the summary above. The other option would be for the board to make the name decision. If there is a vote it would have to be a restricted timescale vote due to the timing with a voting period of about 1 week (7 days). Later complaints about "I had no time it was too short" would be considered as bikeshedding.
Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.
I would say board should be enough to decide this. In the end we voted you guys in and have to keep faith that you do your best ;) Cheers Tom
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 15:01, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
I would say board should be enough to decide this. In the end we voted you guys in and have to keep faith that you do your best ;)
So, the membership can only vote the board, and nothing else? ... yet you people complain that members participate very little, and plan to evict those that do not participate in votes... Interesting... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVTCQACgkQja8UbcUWM1xqFAD+Ir3f5vqSDAUNBt81Y0bfZzaC SM/B+0pfdZ5bGa279LsA/2uw2Dd71ZbBX1I/YNKhvCKAHBHrpYYlOenVUsU6swzP =OGd6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/02/2015 10:35 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 2015-07-02 15:01, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
I would say board should be enough to decide this. In the end we voted you guys in and have to keep faith that you do your best ;)
So, the membership can only vote the board, and nothing else?
... yet you people complain that members participate very little, and plan to evict those that do not participate in votes...
Interesting...
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVTCQACgkQja8UbcUWM1xqFAD+Ir3f5vqSDAUNBt81Y0bfZzaC SM/B+0pfdZ5bGa279LsA/2uw2Dd71ZbBX1I/YNKhvCKAHBHrpYYlOenVUsU6swzP =OGd6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+1 -- Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (25)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Andrew Wafaa -
Angelos Tzotsos -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Christian Boltz -
Cornelius Schumacher -
Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar -
Felix Miata -
Greg Freemyer -
Henne Vogelsang -
Jan Engelhardt -
Johannes Meixner -
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink -
Kyrill Detinov -
oldcpu -
Richard Brown -
Robert Kaiser -
Robert Schweikert -
Rolf Riis Bjørnsen -
Roman Bysh -
Stefan Seyfried -
Stephan Kulow -
Thomas Nielsen -
Tomáš Chvátal