[opensuse-factory] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Some things for the SUSE team to pay attention to!]
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Some things for the SUSE team to pay attention to! Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:09:44 -0400 From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> Reply-To: fmiller@lightlink.com To: opensuse-offtopic <opensuse-offtopic@opensuse.org> The following is from another elist.....honest and accurate comments. Why is Ubuntu/Kubuntu so popular? It just works. Fred ------------------------------------
Does anyone here know what package I need to install to get KDE 4
on SuSE 10.2?
Select "gnome." That will let you skip over KDE 4 to KDE 5! ;-)
Funny...........not! ;) You'll see KDE4, "gold" release," for openSUSE 10.3 before all that long....after that, maybe 10.2. In fact, I can't say for sure that you will see it any time soon......don't know. I'd upgrade to 10.3 if I were you David.
I made a mistake, I am running 10.3. My brain is going and going these days. ;-) Kubuntu is my main enviroment, and I love it. I'm just checking out SuSE on an extra partition to see if it would be any better than kubuntu as far as ease of use. So far getting my wireless on my laptop working with SuSE wasn't too hard, but kubuntu is 1 click. With SuSE all the how-to's I read everyone is still suggesting using ndiswrapper which involves cleaning up all the bcmxx stuff first then hunting down the drivers to use with ndiswrapper, installing ndiswrapper and finally configuring ndiswrapper, but with kubuntu it just downloads the firmware automatically and wireless works. I experimented with this, I found out where Kubuntu is getting that firmware and downloaded it and extracted it in /lib/firmware on SuSE and the wireless card instantly worked. Maybe SuSE should look into something like that. So far the way I see other suse users getting their bcmxx wireless working on SuSE makes me feel sorry for them. If only they knew that all they had to do was download 1 file and stick it in their firmware folder they would be set and ready to go. I wish I could tell *EVERY* bcmxx suse user about this. Another thing is apt. Oh boy do I miss apt when working in SuSE. I know there's probably an equivilent for SuSE, like YUM or such, but I don't know how to use it as good as I do apt. Anyway I'm rambling on and on. Back to my original question, the reason I asked about installing KDE 4 on SuSE was to again see how easy it was to upgrade KDE on SuSE. So far the instructions on SuSE's website was only adding the repository. So I did that, no problem. The problem is that as far as I can tell, using the software installer, I still have to hunt down the KDE core packages just to get a working KDE desktop and on top of that, most people, including me have no idea which package(s) is the core package(s). I chose a few packages in yast that I thought were the core packages to get a minimal kde 4 desktop, but I don't know if they were the correct packages because I logged out and there was no entry for KDE 4, so I suspect 1 of 2 things, 1. I either didn't install the correct packages or 2. I installed the correct packages, but SuSE does not automatically put an entry in the menu on the login screen. If the latter is the case, I would have no clue where to even start to add a menu entry. and if I did have to manually add it, that would be another show stopper for me with SuSE. With apt, I just installed the kde4-desktop and it installed everything for a working desktop, logged out chose kde 4 and logged in. It's that simple. Is this possible with SuSE? If so, what package would that be, because I can't seem to find the kde-desktop package in YaST. --- "Security" in Windows comes from patching a sieve. --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-offtopic+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-offtopic+help@opensuse.org -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 14:27 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote: The following is from another elist.....honest and accurate comments.
Why is Ubuntu/Kubuntu so popular? It just works.
Fred
I agree. There are many nice things that Ubuntu adds and does that make the experiance very nice. Many times we have something just as nice, but they're hidden. For example, Ubuntu makes it easy to install codecs. We have an extremely nice 1-Click Install of all the codecs you need, but it's hard to find. You're lead to the Codecs website of openSUSE, but to find this codec, you have to click on the link to the openSUSE Community website, and navigate to the bottom to find the 1-Click link. With Ubuntu it installs the codec automatically. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy | Public Mail <kevin.dupuy@opensuse.org> | Yo.media: 225-590-5961 Swift Change for a Green Future: Kat Swift for President www.VoteSwift.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun 06 Apr 2008 17:41:00 NZST +1200, Kevin Dupuy wrote:
Why is Ubuntu/Kubuntu so popular? It just works.
I agree. There are many nice things that Ubuntu adds and does that make the experiance very nice. Many times we have something just as nice, but they're hidden. For example, Ubuntu makes it easy to install codecs. We have an extremely nice 1-Click Install of all the codecs you need, but it's hard to find. You're lead to the Codecs website of openSUSE, but to find this codec, you have to click on the link to the openSUSE Community website, and navigate to the bottom to find the 1-Click link. With Ubuntu it installs the codec automatically.
We've had this a few times before. Novell can't afford to link the codecs from their website because they're already being sued enough by jerks like sco. Ubuntu is taking a big legal risk, but that's their problem. You're not the one who'll be coughing up a few millions to defend the lawsuit, I assume? Can you give a few other examples where ubuntu is easier to use? Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
On Sun 06 Apr 2008 17:41:00 NZST +1200, Kevin Dupuy wrote:
Why is Ubuntu/Kubuntu so popular? It just works.
I agree. There are many nice things that Ubuntu adds and does that make the experiance very nice. Many times we have something just as nice, but they're hidden. For example, Ubuntu makes it easy to install codecs. We have an extremely nice 1-Click Install of all the codecs you need, but it's hard to find. You're lead to the Codecs website of openSUSE, but to find this codec, you have to click on the link to the openSUSE Community website, and navigate to the bottom to find the 1-Click link. With Ubuntu it installs the codec automatically.
We've had this a few times before. Novell can't afford to link the codecs from their website
Eh, sorry, but there is a link on the site on how to install all the "naughty bits" to be able to view/copy DVDs and whatever. So, really is your point? As well, Novell is in bed with MS so non of this is relevant.
because they're already being sued enough by jerks like sco.
Oh, please! Keep up with the latest developments.
Ubuntu is taking a big legal risk,
Are they? Where is this stated and confirmed?
but that's their problem. You're not the one who'll be coughing up a few millions to defend the lawsuit, I assume?
Can you give a few other examples where ubuntu is easier to use?
Why is it necessary to provide examples you require? Your 'request' is typical of people who are anal-retentive about openSUSe (or any other OS for that matter). Why should anyone show "examples where <insert-name-of-a-Linux-distro> is easier to use"? How will this resolve the problems of people trying to use openSUSE when the openSUSE has the real/perceived problems when someone tries to install/use it? I've been a SuSE user for some years now. I have installed OSs like Xandros and found that I could view DVDs after installation without having to go through inane and childish games put about by openSUSE. Seems like people installing 'ubuntu have the same pleasant experience. Having said all this, one has to remember that openSUSE is made available for us, the punters, to try out and find all the bugs and crap so that Novell can fix these bugs/crap before finalising their next version of the commercial (ie $$$) SLE; and SLE would not have DVD viewing or CD playing on its list of "must have" features. Office workers aren't allowed to play DVDs or CDs, you know. openSUSE is nothing more than a bug-resolution-by-punters OS for the benefit of producing the commercially-aimed SLE for enterprise desktops. It is NOT aimed at replacing Windows XP/Vista in the community. On the other hand, I feel that 'ubuntu and some others are actually aiming at doing just that: replacing Windows as the OS on mum's and dad's computers. When Novell give back SuSE back to the people who started SuSE then we will get somewhere. Ciao. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun 06 Apr 2008 20:02:13 NZST +1200, Basil Chupin wrote: Not sure whether I should reply to your inflammatory email.
Eh, sorry, but there is a link on the site on how to install all the "naughty bits" to be able to view/copy DVDs and whatever.
The complaint was to make this a 1-click install.
because they're already being sued enough by jerks like sco.
Oh, please!
Keep up with the latest developments.
Novell spent millions on that lawsuit and sco has yet to cough up for any of it.
Why is it necessary to provide examples you require?
You (or someone else, it doesn't matter) said ubuntu does a lot of nice things which there are often equivalents for on suse, but not easily usable. You gave one example of installing codecs. I asked you to give some more of those "lot of nice things" as that might help make suse better.
Why should anyone show "examples where <insert-name-of-a-Linux-distro> is easier to use"?
Because it's always good to look over the fence and maraude. That's how open source works.
Having said all this, one has to remember that openSUSE is made available for us, the punters, to try out and find all the bugs and crap so that Novell can fix these bugs/crap before finalising their next version of the commercial (ie $$$) SLE; and SLE would not have DVD viewing or CD playing on its list of "must have" features.
No difference to e.g. Fedora. And Shuttleworth was complaining how much money all this (k)ubuntu costs him and that he needs to find some business customers to pay for some of it. I still see no difference - all those ubuntu users/developers are doing the work for him too. And I'm quite happy to help with the distribution I'm using, because I'm still getting more than I pay for it.
On the other hand, I feel that 'ubuntu and some others are actually aiming at doing just that: replacing Windows as the OS on mum's and dad's computers.
They're better at advertising. Free beer, oops CDs, always helps. Is their engineering really that much better? What about 64bit? Examples would help your argumentation...
When Novell give back SuSE back to the people who started SuSE then we will get somewhere.
Very shallow. And off topic here. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 20:40 +1200, Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
You (or someone else, it doesn't matter) said ubuntu does a lot of nice things which there are often equivalents for on suse, but not easily usable. You gave one example of installing codecs. I asked you to give some more of those "lot of nice things" as that might help make suse better.
I said that, and I stand by it. Also look at the Restricted Drivers package. If Ubuntu detects a user has a hardware which requires proprietary drivers, it lets them know and allows them to install it automatically. Even if you feel we need to be open source, it's pretty important to make sure openSUSE works on machines. I like openSUSE better than Ubuntu, for sure, BTW. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy | Public Mail <kevin.dupuy@opensuse.org> | Yo.media: 225-590-5961 Swift Change for a Green Future: Kat Swift for President www.VoteSwift.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Kevin Dupuy schreef:
On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 20:40 +1200, Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
You (or someone else, it doesn't matter) said ubuntu does a lot of nice things which there are often equivalents for on suse, but not easily usable. You gave one example of installing codecs. I asked you to give some more of those "lot of nice things" as that might help make suse better.
I said that, and I stand by it. Also look at the Restricted Drivers package. If Ubuntu detects a user has a hardware which requires proprietary drivers, it lets them know and allows them to install it automatically.
Even if you feel we need to be open source, it's pretty important to make sure openSUSE works on machines.
I like openSUSE better than Ubuntu, for sure, BTW.
What drivers do you mean? Ati and Nvidia is supported here also. All other hardware (mostly) runs imediately, especialy the newest... ;) Everybody is free to like whatever he/she likes most, there is no limit.. SuSe is just more grown-up, and has taken some severe and heavy blows, without deserving them, but SuSE grows on that, and won't ever quit. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.0.3 (KDE 4.0.3) "release 3.2" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 19:48 +0200, Oddball wrote:
I said that, and I stand by it. Also look at the Restricted Drivers package. If Ubuntu detects a user has a hardware which requires proprietary drivers, it lets them know and allows them to install it automatically.
Even if you feel we need to be open source, it's pretty important to make sure openSUSE works on machines.
I like openSUSE better than Ubuntu, for sure, BTW.
What drivers do you mean? Ati and Nvidia is supported here also.
Supported? Not really, not fully. Try to report a kernel bug while the nvidia driver is loaded. Of course ubuntu can't support it, either... choose another word, but "support", no, nvidia is not fully suported. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+SH3tTMYHG2NR9URAu14AJ9RzMtMxKU/Yq1JTxV4jGfIr1tcGgCZAcNn vrp4dZiFSUzfVOaPgvQXfQA= =mBI4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. escribió:
Supported? Not really, not fully.
It is not possible to fully support something that we cannot fix. -- “If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.” – Edsger Dijkstra Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Carlos E. R. escribió:
Supported? Not really, not fully.
It is not possible to fully support something that we cannot fix.
I think it is semantics, 'support' is probably the wrong word and I think Carlos was suggesting a better word than support. How about 'tolerated' or 'works fairly well with' or even just prefaced with 'partial' support. Richard --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 03:35:32PM -0400, Richard Creighton wrote:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Carlos E. R. escribió:
Supported? Not really, not fully.
It is not possible to fully support something that we cannot fix.
I think it is semantics, 'support' is probably the wrong word and I think Carlos was suggesting a better word than support. How about 'tolerated' or 'works fairly well with' or even just prefaced with 'partial' support.
"We can debug problems with". is probably the thing that applies. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 21:44 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 03:35:32PM -0400, Richard Creighton wrote:
I think it is semantics, 'support' is probably the wrong word and I think Carlos was suggesting a better word than support. How about 'tolerated' or 'works fairly well with' or even just prefaced with 'partial' support.
"We can debug problems with". is probably the thing that applies.
Not always... you know that the kernel logs when a driver such as Nvidia is loaded as being "tainted", and that the kernel devs will refuse to look at them. I had a bug closed as "invalid" because the investigator saw in the logs that the vmware kernel module was loaded, even though it was unrelated and I could reproduce the bug without it, later. It was automatic: they saw "vmware" and bug was invalid within a day. It was reopened, of course. So if you say that "We can debug problems with", you should have to clarify, because that is not always so, or not for all of you. Mind, I'm not saying you should debug and support all problems when closed source parts are involved. I understand your problems with that. However, a procedure to solve those problems with your help would be nice. Nor do I say you should link Nvidia drivers directly. I understand and accept the reasons, and find the one click install a reasonable and acceptable solution - but I claim my right to grumble a bit ;-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+S5dtTMYHG2NR9URAjueAJ9gToquKGxWMBKMFx5JWP9PoyGrtACfdPW8 xbrKSjdF3hFvX7BIzBn7bic= =XQtY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 15:35 -0400, Richard Creighton wrote:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Carlos E. R. escribió:
Supported? Not really, not fully.
It is not possible to fully support something that we cannot fix.
I know that.
I think it is semantics, 'support' is probably the wrong word and I think Carlos was suggesting a better word than support. How about 'tolerated' or 'works fairly well with' or even just prefaced with 'partial' support.
Just my point. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+SlZtTMYHG2NR9URAoBQAJ9WLzPMORdKgJ95WAV999ME+uuxRQCeOL+W Phe6x/sl3vJfRpwa4I1U+BM= =e1z2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos E. R. schreef:
The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 19:48 +0200, Oddball wrote:
I said that, and I stand by it. Also look at the Restricted Drivers package. If Ubuntu detects a user has a hardware which requires proprietary drivers, it lets them know and allows them to install it automatically.
Even if you feel we need to be open source, it's pretty important to make sure openSUSE works on machines.
I like openSUSE better than Ubuntu, for sure, BTW.
What drivers do you mean? Ati and Nvidia is supported here also.
Supported? Not really, not fully. Try to report a kernel bug while the nvidia driver is loaded. Of course ubuntu can't support it, either... choose another word, but "support", no, nvidia is not fully suported.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
easier to install, but those are 3 words ;) - -- Have a nice continuance of your Day/Night Basher (Forever Now) Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25-rc7-git2-11-default x86_64 Current user: basher@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.67 (KDE 4.0.67 >= 20080325) "release 3.2" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkf58nIACgkQjISGzZ5hQdAWGACfUPwXglX696HavfXl9oFaWfZG sZAAn1VuLnGNJ0POTZVkGX9mdAYAx857 =bVHO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Eh, sorry, but there is a link on the site on how to install all the "naughty bits" to be able to view/copy DVDs and whatever.
So, really is your point?
As well, Novell is in bed with MS so non of this is relevant.
Oh, its that time again... That time when there is a troll polluting a suse list... Stop trolling, troll.
because they're already being sued enough by jerks like sco.
Oh, please!
Keep up with the latest developments.
Troll who thinks he is a lawyer, or has double personality, because of all those lawyer tv shows.
Ubuntu is taking a big legal risk,
Are they? Where is this stated and confirmed?
Absurd troll about legal stuff Basil Chupin has absolutely no idea. Typical trollish behavior.
Why is it necessary to provide examples you require?
Your 'request' is typical of people who are anal-retentive about openSUSe (or any other OS for that matter).
TROLL talking
Why should anyone show "examples where <insert-name-of-a-Linux-distro> is easier to use"?
omg, troll-o-meter is beeping crazy
through inane and childish games put about by openSUSE. Seems like people installing 'ubuntu have the same pleasant experience.
TROLL
Having said all this, one has to remember that openSUSE is made available for us, the punters, to try out and find all the bugs and crap so that Novell can fix these bugs/crap before finalising their next version of the commercial (ie $$$) SLE; and SLE would not have DVD viewing or CD playing on its list of "must have" features. Office workers aren't allowed to play DVDs or CDs, you know.
openSUSE is nothing more than a bug-resolution-by-punters OS for the benefit of producing the commercially-aimed SLE for enterprise desktops. It is NOT aimed at replacing Windows XP/Vista in the community.
troll. I will make a comment on this one. Check novell contribution to software and check ubuntu. You troll.
On the other hand, I feel that 'ubuntu and some others are actually aiming at doing just that: replacing Windows as the OS on mum's and dad's computers.
When Novell give back SuSE back to the people who started SuSE then we will get somewhere.
troll Youa re a troll and your message contain 154.35% of troll content. Stop spamming this list with trollage. "mimimi, microsoft deal, Im a 4 year old child mimimi, think Im a lawyer, I think Im a linux expert mimimi, I have no idea of the implications of things, I will keep demanding things because else I will cry, because Im a 4 year old child" cut the crap Marcio --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin escribió:
As well, Novell is in bed with MS so non of this is relevant.
doh.. wtf are you talking about.. or just trolling ?
Are they? Where is this stated and confirmed?
Yes, Ubuntu takes a big legal risk doing that, they probably wont get sued before they make enough profit that BTW.. uses a model, , was used by redhat and didnt really work,..
viewing or CD playing on its list of "must have" features. Office workers aren't allowed to play DVDs or CDs, you know.
I dont know in which kind of offices have you worked, but your conclusion that office users are not allowed to play DVD or CDs are complete non-sense, I would never work in a place where I cannot listen music at least :-)
When Novell give back SuSE back to the people who started SuSE then we will get somewhere.
bla..bla.bla.. You just proved that you dont have a clue about what are you talking about, please do your homework, investigate what the reality is,and try again. *sigh* -- “If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.” – Edsger Dijkstra Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
On Sunday 06 April 2008, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Basil Chupin escribió:
As well, Novell is in bed with MS so non of this is relevant.
doh.. wtf are you talking about.. or just trolling ?
Are they? Where is this stated and confirmed?
Yes, Ubuntu takes a big legal risk doing that, they probably wont get sued before they make enough profit that BTW.. uses a model, , was used by redhat and didnt really work,.. Addtional they are not US based which lowers the risk dramatically. M
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 18:40 +1200, Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
On Sun 06 Apr 2008 17:41:00 NZST +1200, Kevin Dupuy wrote:
Why is Ubuntu/Kubuntu so popular? It just works.
I agree. There are many nice things that Ubuntu adds and does that make the experiance very nice. Many times we have something just as nice, but they're hidden. For example, Ubuntu makes it easy to install codecs. We have an extremely nice 1-Click Install of all the codecs you need, but it's hard to find. You're lead to the Codecs website of openSUSE, but to find this codec, you have to click on the link to the openSUSE Community website, and navigate to the bottom to find the 1-Click link. With Ubuntu it installs the codec automatically.
We've had this a few times before. Novell can't afford to link the codecs from their website because they're already being sued enough by jerks like sco. Ubuntu is taking a big legal risk, but that's their problem. You're not the one who'll be coughing up a few millions to defend the lawsuit, I assume?
Can you give a few other examples where ubuntu is easier to use?
Volker
Volker: I understand why Novell and openSUSE don't link to the codecs, however I'm admitting it's a problem. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy | Public Mail <kevin.dupuy@opensuse.org> | Yo.media: 225-590-5961 Swift Change for a Green Future: Kat Swift for President www.VoteSwift.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Kevin Dupuy schreef:
On Sun, 2008-04-06 at 18:40 +1200, Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
On Sun 06 Apr 2008 17:41:00 NZST +1200, Kevin Dupuy wrote:
Why is Ubuntu/Kubuntu so popular? It just works.
I agree. There are many nice things that Ubuntu adds and does that make the experiance very nice. Many times we have something just as nice, but they're hidden. For example, Ubuntu makes it easy to install codecs. We have an extremely nice 1-Click Install of all the codecs you need, but it's hard to find. You're lead to the Codecs website of openSUSE, but to find this codec, you have to click on the link to the openSUSE Community website, and navigate to the bottom to find the 1-Click link. With Ubuntu it installs the codec automatically.
We've had this a few times before. Novell can't afford to link the codecs from their website because they're already being sued enough by jerks like sco. Ubuntu is taking a big legal risk, but that's their problem. You're not the one who'll be coughing up a few millions to defend the lawsuit, I assume?
Can you give a few other examples where ubuntu is easier to use?
Volker
Volker: I understand why Novell and openSUSE don't link to the codecs, however I'm admitting it's a problem.
No it is not anymore, they are just one-click away... And we won't be needing them anymore soon... -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.0.3 (KDE 4.0.3) "release 3.2" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 19:35 +0200, Oddball wrote:
Volker: I understand why Novell and openSUSE don't link to the codecs, however I'm admitting it's a problem.
No it is not anymore, they are just one-click away...
Yes, it is still a problem. In the Spanish list we have two novices right now that can't make that one click thing install the nvidia drivers for them.
And we won't be needing them anymore soon...
How so? :-? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+STTtTMYHG2NR9URAobMAJ0cV9OhaPHZyIP+tf7rRXtVIhT8MQCgig2r 1xq704FC0PpX36A4ItuG/Os= =8hzc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2008/4/6, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Yes, it is still a problem. In the Spanish list we have two novices right now that can't make that one click thing install the nvidia drivers for them.
Carlos, probably the 1-click install problem is that the driver installed by 1-click install requires an updated kernel....and that is the most probably case... regards, Luiz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 16:47 -0300, ¡ElCheVive! wrote:
Yes, it is still a problem. In the Spanish list we have two novices right now that can't make that one click thing install the nvidia drivers for them.
Carlos,
probably the 1-click install problem is that the driver installed by 1-click install requires an updated kernel....and that is the most probably case...
Whatever. But there are problems. :-) I think he has no repos configured, and that was supposed to be automatic. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+S7atTMYHG2NR9URAkEJAJ0b18myEkIyq292ZC3gc5heHuNrtwCeOYMv 2aI0E4mP/exDqZpMQmlCKTc= =lal6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 06/04/2008, ¡ElCheVive! <elchevive68@gmail.com> wrote:
probably the 1-click install problem is that the driver installed by 1-click install requires an updated kernel....and that is the most probably case...
The NVIDIA YMP was recently modified to also include the update repository, so that problem should not occur any more. The only potential problem is if they do not have the main repository added, which contains the "3ddiag" requirement. If people have conflicts with the any of the codec/nvidia etc installs please get them to supply the entire conflict list reported by yast and post to one of the mailing lists so they can be fixed. -- Benjamin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 21:16 +0100, Benji Weber wrote:
On 06/04/2008, ¡ElCheVive! <> wrote:
probably the 1-click install problem is that the driver installed by 1-click install requires an updated kernel....and that is the most probably case...
The NVIDIA YMP was recently modified to also include the update repository, so that problem should not occur any more. The only potential problem is if they do not have the main repository added, which contains the "3ddiag" requirement.
If people have conflicts with the any of the codec/nvidia etc installs please get them to supply the entire conflict list reported by yast and post to one of the mailing lists so they can be fixed.
Thanks, that's good to know. We'll try to find out what this particular person problem is. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+UgYtTMYHG2NR9URAqv0AJ9h80l66pdxQy8RmaYNHpxo6FNM3ACfRpKb 0btWO7HIJtlvRKQ/BDax58I= =3upj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos E. R. schreef:
The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 19:35 +0200, Oddball wrote:
Volker: I understand why Novell and openSUSE don't link to the codecs, however I'm admitting it's a problem.
No it is not anymore, they are just one-click away...
Yes, it is still a problem. In the Spanish list we have two novices right now that can't make that one click thing install the nvidia drivers for them.
And we won't be needing them anymore soon...
How so? :-?
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Gnash can replace flash, and gstreamer mp3. Ogg is ours and flac also.. Nvidia and ati need the repo installed. - -- Have a nice continuance of your Day/Night Basher (Forever Now) Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.25-rc7-git2-11-default x86_64 Current user: basher@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.67 (KDE 4.0.67 >= 20080325) "release 3.2" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkf58awACgkQjISGzZ5hQdB/0wCffhR6rQMXn/lVgPBJKIVjAmxX +jIAnj2ou+biFOX7yuKjLrSKGvvsdm8r =cbI1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 06/04/2008, Basil Chupin <blchupin@tpg.com.au> wrote:
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Some things for the SUSE team to pay attention to! Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:09:44 -0400 From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> Reply-To: fmiller@lightlink.com To: opensuse-offtopic <opensuse-offtopic@opensuse.org>
The following is from another elist.....honest and accurate comments. Why is Ubuntu/Kubuntu so popular? It just works.
Fred
------------------------------------
Does anyone here know what package I need to install to get KDE 4
> on SuSE > 10.2?
Select "gnome." That will let you skip over KDE 4 to KDE 5! ;-)
Funny...........not! ;) You'll see KDE4, "gold" release," for
openSUSE
10.3 before all that long....after that, maybe 10.2. In fact, I can't say for sure that you will see it any time soon......don't know. I'd upgrade to 10.3 if I were you David.
I made a mistake, I am running 10.3. My brain is going and going these days. ;-)
Kubuntu is my main enviroment, and I love it. I'm just checking out SuSE on an extra partition to see if it would be any better than kubuntu as far as ease of use.
So far getting my wireless on my laptop working with SuSE wasn't too hard, but kubuntu is 1 click. With SuSE all the how-to's I read everyone is still suggesting using ndiswrapper which involves cleaning up all the bcmxx stuff first then hunting down the drivers to use with ndiswrapper, installing ndiswrapper and finally configuring ndiswrapper, but with kubuntu it just downloads the firmware automatically and wireless works.
I experimented with this, I found out where Kubuntu is getting that firmware and downloaded it and extracted it in /lib/firmware on SuSE and the wireless card instantly worked. Maybe SuSE should look into something like that. So far the way I see other suse users getting their bcmxx wireless working on SuSE makes me feel sorry for them. If only they knew that all they had to do was download 1 file and stick it in their firmware folder they would be set and ready to go. I wish I could tell *EVERY* bcmxx suse user about this.
I helped someone set one of these cards up on IRC this week, just a matter of installing http://packman.links2linux.de/package/bcm43xx-firmware . The firmware can't be distributed by suse for legal reasons. Presumably even on kubuntu one needs to know to install the appropriate firmware package, or does it suggest it automatically?
Another thing is apt. Oh boy do I miss apt when working in SuSE. I know there's probably an equivilent for SuSE, like YUM or such, but I don't know how to use it as good as I do apt.
Anyway I'm rambling on and on. Back to my original question, the reason I asked about installing KDE 4 on SuSE was to again see how easy it was to upgrade KDE on SuSE. So far the instructions on SuSE's website was only adding the repository. So I did that, no problem. The problem is that as far as I can tell, using the software installer, I still have to hunt down the KDE core packages just to get a working KDE desktop and on top of that, most people, including me have no idea which package(s) is the core package(s). I chose a few packages in yast that I thought were the core packages to get a minimal kde 4 desktop, but I don't know if they were the correct packages because I logged out and there was no entry for KDE 4, so I suspect 1 of 2 things,
1. I either didn't install the correct packages or 2. I installed the correct packages, but SuSE does not automatically put an entry in the menu on the login screen.
If the latter is the case, I would have no clue where to even start to add a menu entry. and if I did have to manually add it, that would be another show stopper for me with SuSE. With apt, I just installed the kde4-desktop and it installed everything for a working desktop, logged out chose kde 4 and logged in. It's that simple. Is this possible with SuSE? If so, what package would that be, because I can't seem to find the kde-desktop package in YaST.
You can install the kde4_basis pattern with yast or zypper, or "KDE 4.0 Basis" using the buildservice kde repository. I don't see how this is a suse problem because you knew what the name of the metapackage was on kubuntu, you looked harder on kubuntu. There's also the one click install on http://en.opensuse.org/KDE4 . Either method adds kde4 to the login page. Somehow this person knew to install "kde4-desktop" in kubuntu instinctively, but did not bother to look at either the kde wiki page, ask on IRC, or ask on the mailing list as to what the equivalent is on openSUSE? -- Benjamin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 08:26 +0100, Benji Weber wrote: ...
I helped someone set one of these cards up on IRC this week, just a matter of installing http://packman.links2linux.de/package/bcm43xx-firmware . The firmware can't be distributed by suse for legal reasons. Presumably even on kubuntu one needs to know to install the appropriate firmware package, or does it suggest it automatically?
I think they do. Similar to codecs stuff. Yeah, we know, it's a legal problem they don't seem to care about. The problem (for suse) is that (new) users just want things to work (read: enter, enter, enter, enter. Don't read, don't think). I have friends that tell me they won't use linux if they have to enter a console to enter a command or an editor to configure some thing via config file... it's the windows mentality. ...
in. It's that simple. Is this possible with SuSE? If so, what package would that be, because I can't seem to find the kde-desktop package in YaST.
You can install the kde4_basis pattern with yast or zypper, or "KDE 4.0 Basis" using the buildservice kde repository. I don't see how this
Don't tell him here, the poster of this problem probably does not read this list. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+KLOtTMYHG2NR9URAglbAJ938PfShB9Twx5CV786kAvQuzXWggCgkJU7 RphFPJsBd7Ta+cj6GvNdfoo= =XjwE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. schreef:
The Sunday 2008-04-06 at 08:26 +0100, Benji Weber wrote:
...
I helped someone set one of these cards up on IRC this week, just a matter of installing http://packman.links2linux.de/package/bcm43xx-firmware . The firmware can't be distributed by suse for legal reasons. Presumably even on kubuntu one needs to know to install the appropriate firmware package, or does it suggest it automatically?
I think they do. Similar to codecs stuff. Yeah, we know, it's a legal problem they don't seem to care about. The problem (for suse) is that (new) users just want things to work (read: enter, enter, enter, enter. Don't read, don't think).
I have friends that tell me they won't use linux if they have to enter a console to enter a command or an editor to configure some thing via config file... it's the windows mentality.
...
in. It's that simple. Is this possible with SuSE? If so, what package would that be, because I can't seem to find the kde-desktop package in YaST.
You can install the kde4_basis pattern with yast or zypper, or "KDE 4.0 Basis" using the buildservice kde repository. I don't see how this
Don't tell him here, the poster of this problem probably does not read this list.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
You all know as well as i do, that all 'new' things are difficult. They are different, so you'll have to find out how it's done... SuSE > (K)Ubunta, or vice versa. On suse all things can be done, and i mean all. You just have to know how. The 'Deal', has been realy realy bad for SuSe, we all still notice the effects on that. Let 'SuSE' don't waiste time about 'other ways', but find, keep and follow her own.. As i see it, much devellopment is in the speeding and rewriting of all, to fit on almost any hardware. It is amazing what is achieved here already. Compared with previous, the improvements are awsome. SuSe needs to get trough this phase first. Let us just enjoy and work to get the impossible done... If we are confident, this will radiate, and atract people by that. Those who stay, will stay, those who go, will go anyway. Just let it be... and keep yourself, SuSE... -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.0.3 (KDE 4.0.3) "release 3.2" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/6/2008 at 09:26, "Benji Weber" <benji@opensuse.org> wrote: I helped someone set one of these cards up on IRC this week, just a matter of installing http://packman.links2linux.de/package/bcm43xx-firmware . The firmware can't be distributed by suse for legal reasons. Presumably even on kubuntu one needs to know to install the appropriate firmware package, or does it suggest it automatically?
IIRC, it's even much easier on openSUSE: you install bcm43xx-fwcutter (on 10.3; the package should even be auto-installed by yast on installation, if you have such a card!) and then you simply start /usr/sbin/install_bcm43xx_firmware I think the issue is that it's not documented to well and people are pointed to use ndiswrapper (which I actually never used on my notebooks!) Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Dominique Leuenberger <Dominique.Leuenberger@tmf-group.com> wrote:
IIRC, it's even much easier on openSUSE: you install bcm43xx-fwcutter (on 10.3; the package should even be auto-installed by yast on installation, if you have such a card!) and then you simply start /usr/sbin/install_bcm43xx_firmware
I think the issue is that it's not documented to well and people are pointed to use ndiswrapper (which I actually never used on my notebooks!)
Actually the issue is, that it is not run automatically when a proper hardware is detected. Or at least, offered to be run. -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Some things for the SUSE team to pay attention to! Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:09:44 -0400 From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller@lightlink.com> Reply-To: fmiller@lightlink.com To: opensuse-offtopic <opensuse-offtopic@opensuse.org>
The following is from another elist.....honest and accurate comments. Why is Ubuntu/Kubuntu so popular? It just works.
Fred
------------------------------------
Does anyone here know what package I need to install to get KDE 4
> on SuSE > 10.2?
Select "gnome." That will let you skip over KDE 4 to KDE 5! ;-)
Funny...........not! ;) You'll see KDE4, "gold" release," for openSUSE 10.3 before all that long....after that, maybe 10.2. In fact, I can't say for sure that you will see it any time soon......don't know. I'd upgrade to 10.3 if I were you David.
I made a mistake, I am running 10.3. My brain is going and going these days. ;-)
Kubuntu is my main enviroment, and I love it. I'm just checking out SuSE on an extra partition to see if it would be any better than kubuntu as far as ease of use.
So far getting my wireless on my laptop working with SuSE wasn't too hard, but kubuntu is 1 click. With SuSE all the how-to's I read everyone is still suggesting using ndiswrapper which involves cleaning up all the bcmxx stuff first then hunting down the drivers to use with ndiswrapper, installing ndiswrapper and finally configuring ndiswrapper, but with kubuntu it just downloads the firmware automatically and wireless works.
I experimented with this, I found out where Kubuntu is getting that firmware and downloaded it and extracted it in /lib/firmware on SuSE and the wireless card instantly worked. Maybe SuSE should look into something like that. So far the way I see other suse users getting their bcmxx wireless working on SuSE makes me feel sorry for them. If only they knew that all they had to do was download 1 file and stick it in their firmware folder they would be set and ready to go. I wish I could tell *EVERY* bcmxx suse user about this.
Yesterday I got a new Edimax wireless stick, the modules loaded automatically, but it didn't come up. Looked in dmesg to see what the problem was and it mentioned rt73.bin firmware and where to download it from. As I had it already on another system, I scp'd it across, restarted the network and it's up and working. If I had the same problem with Ubuntu, I'd have done the same and got there also. That's how I did the first box.
Another thing is apt. Oh boy do I miss apt when working in SuSE. I know there's probably an equivilent for SuSE, like YUM or such, but I don't know how to use it as good as I do apt.
Great alternative tools are available, YaST, zypper, 1-click. Much like saying how much you miss the stuff that's in Windows or Mac.
Anyway I'm rambling on and on. Back to my original question, the reason I asked about installing KDE 4 on SuSE was to again see how easy it was to upgrade KDE on SuSE. So far the instructions on SuSE's website was only adding the repository. So I did that, no problem. The problem is that as far as I can tell, using the software installer, I still have to hunt down the KDE core packages just to get a working KDE desktop and on top of that, most people, including me have no idea which package(s) is the core package(s). I chose a few packages in yast that I thought were the core packages to get a minimal kde 4 desktop, but I don't know if they were the correct packages because I logged out and there was no entry for KDE 4, so I suspect 1 of 2 things,
1. I either didn't install the correct packages or 2. I installed the correct packages, but SuSE does not automatically put an entry in the menu on the login screen.
The first time I tried KDE4 and every time since, the KDE4 session has been available in the login menu.
If the latter is the case, I would have no clue where to even start to add a menu entry. and if I did have to manually add it, that would be another show stopper for me with SuSE. With apt, I just installed the kde4-desktop and it installed everything for a working desktop, logged out chose kde 4 and logged in. It's that simple. Is this possible with SuSE? If so, what package would that be, because I can't seem to find the kde-desktop package in YaST.
That should be no problem either, I haven't checked lately, but I think there is a 1-click install for doing so. There are some confusing things in Ubuntu when approached from a SuSE background. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Great alternative tools are available, YaST, zypper, 1-click. Much like saying how much you miss the stuff that's in Windows or Mac.
Ummm..we _HAD_ apt on SUSE. We _HAD_ Synaptic on SUSE. That is not missing stuff on Windows or Mac.. that is missing stuff we had in SUSE up to 10.0. I would not call the YAST software install component a "great alternative". It is an alternative, but it is NOT great once you add in more than 2 or 3 repositories. C. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 09:08, Clayton <smaug42@gmail.com> wrote: Great alternative tools are available, YaST, zypper, 1-click. Much like saying how much you miss the stuff that's in Windows or Mac.
Ummm..we _HAD_ apt on SUSE. We _HAD_ Synaptic on SUSE. That is not missing stuff on Windows or Mac.. that is missing stuff we had in SUSE up to 10.0.
I would not call the YAST software install component a "great alternative". It is an alternative, but it is NOT great once you add in more than 2 or 3 repositories.
Are you talking Factory (as the list is supposed to) or 10.3? If 10.3, then please first test Factory and get a grip with what's going on. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I would not call the YAST software install component a "great alternative". It is an alternative, but it is NOT great once you add in more than 2 or 3 repositories.
Are you talking Factory (as the list is supposed to) or 10.3? If 10.3, then please first test Factory and get a grip with what's going on.
I am running 10.2, 10.3 and 11.0Alpha3 YAST is improving, there is no denying that... but it is still not a great alternative. It's method of handling dependencies leaves a lot to be desired compared to Synaptic or Smart (in terms of how it informs the user of dependencies). I am not saying YAST cannot do the job of installing software... it does the job... it is the user experience where it really lacks. This thread is not about specific improvements to the YAST software component... this is (was?) about things in Ubuntu that were nice... and are felt to be missing in openSUSE.... eg a better software management tool (we had apt/Synaptic in the past, and it was dropped... which was the main point I was making), easier methods to set up WiFi, better user experience when dealing with things like mp3 playback etc etc. All of which have solutions in openSUSE, but solutions that are lacking in some way when compared to competitors. C. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Clayton escribió:
(in terms of how it informs the user of dependencies).
I only agree in that exact point, the wording on the error messages still seems to come from hell looking from a joe user perspective, hopefully they will improve in the future. In most other aspects, the dependency resolver is **much** superior to the other alternatives. -- "Freedom of religion also means freedom **from** religion" - Anonymous Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
(in terms of how it informs the user of dependencies).
I only agree in that exact point, the wording on the error messages still seems to come from hell looking from a joe user perspective, hopefully they will improve in the future.
In most other aspects, the dependency resolver is **much** superior to the other alternatives.
The resolver might be better, but the user experience is not. Synaptic might be a lot weaker in that respect, but the user experience is much better - I say this based on experience.. not my own but with the dozens of people I've helped migrate from Windows to openSUSE, and who have since switched to Ubuntu/Kubuntu... the reason... software management. They do not like YAST... they like Synaptic. They don't care about a superior dependency resolver.. they care what they see... how easy it is to add new software and update existing software. Bringing this back to the thread theme... this is something Ubuntu does better... saying that openSUSE does it better in the backend, while true, has little impact on the "Joe User" who wants it to be easy. openSUSE can stand on its soapbox and say I am better because of (insert technical reason here) but as long as Ubuntu is making the user experience better, the superior technical aspects of openSUSE will be ignored.... think Betamax vs VHS... which is STILL in use? C. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag 08 April 2008 schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
Clayton escribió:
(in terms of how it informs the user of dependencies).
I only agree in that exact point, the wording on the error messages still seems to come from hell looking from a joe user perspective, hopefully they will improve in the future.
Can you give an example where the alternatives are making a better job? Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
(in terms of how it informs the user of dependencies).
I only agree in that exact point, the wording on the error messages still seems to come from hell looking from a joe user perspective, hopefully they will improve in the future.
Can you give an example where the alternatives are making a better job?
Assuming you mean with the YAST package manager? I haven't spent enough time with 11.0Alphas to speak for changes there, but in 10.3 and older.... when you open YAST (using all default settings, no after-install tweaks, so as a new user would use it), and select a few packages to be installed, the dependency and conflict resolution does not happen until you either click the Check Dependencies button, or you click Apply... then a window is popped open which basically says, oh by the way I have all these other packages that need to be installed... no clear indication of what extra bits belong to which applicaton. In conflict resolution, the window used to display the conflict errors is confusing even to experienced users... and you never feel you really have a handle on what is going on, or what you just did was what you hoped you wanted. Sticking with software currently available on openSUSE, compare that to Smart (which despite the Smart GUI deficiencies is often the preferred "replacement" for YAST.. just ask on the mailing list how many people use it in place of YAST, and then ask why). If you click on an application in Smart to do an update or new install, you are immediately presented with information about what the consequences are... what packages will be removed, and what will be added/updated. Granted, conflict resolution is handled badly in Smart too... ie it just says there is a conflict and gives no help at all with resolving, but YAST's conflict resolution solution is more confusing to a new user (based on what people are telling me). Looking at software outside of openSUSE... take Synaptic... again from a new user perspective... Synaptic, like Smart, also presents information about the app you are installing/updating... you know when you click on something what the impact is likely to be. This immediate feedback is a major issue with people when they use YAST... or at least that is what they tell me when I ask why they prefer either to drop YAST in favor of Smart, or if they drop openSUSE altogether. 1-Click is a major improvement for installing new apps, but does cannot be used for managing installed apps (updating/removing etc). All new users who are trying out openSUSE for the first time have told me they really like the 1-Click thing. The simplest way to install Ubuntu... and install/update/remove some software using Synaptic. Compare that to YAST. There are bits where YAST does a better job.. mostly behind the scenes... but try to think of it as a new to Linux user... which is simpler to understand, and easier to use... YAST is likely not the answer.... It is worth noting that the rest of YAST... nothing beats it... so far, other than for software management, it is so far ahead of other tools that there is no comparison... C. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag 08 April 2008 schrieb Clayton:
(in terms of how it informs the user of
dependencies).
I only agree in that exact point, the wording on the error messages
still seems to come from hell looking from a joe user perspective, hopefully they will improve in the future.
Can you give an example where the alternatives are making a better job?
Assuming you mean with the YAST package manager?
I haven't spent enough time with 11.0Alphas to speak for changes
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly. Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I haven't spent enough time with 11.0Alphas to speak for changes
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly.
You're right, and, I fully intend on trying this out in more detail with my 11.0 Alpha when I get home tonight (I should have made it clear that I was planning on doing this). I will provide a much more comprehensive view of what I am getting at in the next day or two. Unless there have been some VERY major changes to the YAST software installer work flow, I fully expect my comments to stand. I have been known to be wrong though :-) Just a general comment about YAST... especially with what I see has been done with 11.0Alpha 3.. things are on the right track. Each release has major improvements. C. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/04/2008, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly.
The conflict messages and suggestions are much better in Factory. Suggestions such as http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/110_conflict.png are much easier to understand than before, ignoring the confusing use of "uninstallable" to mean "not installable". Still, would it not be better to pre-select the resolution that is likely to be the best one? Leaving the option to change it. e.g. vendor change of a dependency is usually better than not fulfilling a user's request. I have not checked whether the vendor change question is still handled as a conflict, as there are not any packman packages available yet for 11.0. I didn't really like this behaviour. While Vendor-Sticky is good at preventing system breakage when users blindly upgrade all packages, also enforcing it when solving dependencies for manual user selections is not good in my opinion. In 10.3, if a user selects libxine from packman, he/she will get conflicts because of the vendor change of dependencies of xine. This should not happen in my opinion, by selecting a packman package he/she has decided to change vendor of that package /and all its dependencies/. -- Benjamin Weber -- Benjamin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Benji Weber schreef:
On 08/04/2008, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly.
The conflict messages and suggestions are much better in Factory. Suggestions such as
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/110_conflict.png
are much easier to understand than before, ignoring the confusing use of "uninstallable" to mean "not installable".
I could give an example of the opposit, if yast would be usable for me atm, but due to lack of a provider for libzypp.so.406, i can not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10, without the plugin, the gui doesn't work. (have not tried cli version yet..) ( Problem: nothing provides libzypp.so.406()(64bit) needed by yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Solution 1: not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Choose the above solution using '1' or cancel using 'c' [1/A]: ) Zypper output.
Still, would it not be better to pre-select the resolution that is likely to be the best one? Leaving the option to change it. e.g. vendor change of a dependency is usually better than not fulfilling a user's request.
+1
I have not checked whether the vendor change question is still handled as a conflict, as there are not any packman packages available yet for 11.0. I didn't really like this behaviour. While Vendor-Sticky is good at preventing system breakage when users blindly upgrade all packages, also enforcing it when solving dependencies for manual user selections is not good in my opinion. In 10.3, if a user selects libxine from packman, he/she will get conflicts because of the vendor change of dependencies of xine. This should not happen in my opinion, by selecting a packman package he/she has decided to change vendor of that package /and all its dependencies/.
Correct, +1
-- Benjamin Weber
--
-- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa Tuesday 08 April 2008 13:06:58 Oddball ste napísal:
Benji Weber schreef:
On 08/04/2008, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly.
The conflict messages and suggestions are much better in Factory. Suggestions such as
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/110_conflict.png
are much easier to understand than before, ignoring the confusing use of "uninstallable" to mean "not installable".
I could give an example of the opposit, if yast would be usable for me atm, but due to lack of a provider for libzypp.so.406, i can not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10, without the plugin, the gui doesn't work. (have not tried cli version yet..)
( Problem: nothing provides libzypp.so.406()(64bit) needed by yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Solution 1: not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64
Choose the above solution using '1' or cancel using 'c' [1/A]: )
Zypper output.
Yes. This is a confusing message. Solver is telling you that it cannot fulfill your request to install that and cannot overrule it, because you explicitly asked for this package. What should it do? Quit? What if you asked for several packages at once? Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
Yes. This is a confusing message. Solver is telling you that it cannot fulfill your request to install that and cannot overrule it, because you explicitly asked for this package.
What should it do? Quit? What if you asked for several packages at once?
Stano
Which command do i have to use, to *completely* reinstall yast2? -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 13:06, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: Benji Weber schreef: On 08/04/2008, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly.
The conflict messages and suggestions are much better in Factory. Suggestions such as
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/110_conflict.png
are much easier to understand than before, ignoring the confusing use of "uninstallable" to mean "not installable".
I could give an example of the opposit, if yast would be usable for me atm, but due to lack of a provider for libzypp.so.406, i can not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10, without the plugin, the gui doesn't work. (have not tried cli version yet..)
( Problem: nothing provides libzypp.so.406()(64bit) needed by yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Solution 1: not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64
Choose the above solution using '1' or cancel using 'c' [1/A]: )
Zypper output.
Are you sure your repositories are refreshed? libzypp 4.0.6 is rather old.. I think they reached libzypp 4.5 already... also yast2-qt-pkg is 'already' at version 2.16.31 So I actually think your issue is a completely different one, maybe due to not refreshed repositories or wrong repo choices (or I read something that the dVD repo might have higher priority.. so maybe you have the cd repo active?) Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa Tuesday 08 April 2008 13:11:30 Dominique Leuenberger ste napísal:
On 4/8/2008 at 13:06, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Benji Weber schreef:
On 08/04/2008, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly.
The conflict messages and suggestions are much better in Factory. Suggestions such as
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/110_conflict.png
are much easier to understand than before, ignoring the confusing use of "uninstallable" to mean "not installable".
I could give an example of the opposit, if yast would be usable for me atm, but due to lack of a provider for libzypp.so.406, i can not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10, without the plugin, the gui doesn't work. (have not tried cli version yet..)
( Problem: nothing provides libzypp.so.406()(64bit) needed by yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Solution 1: not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64
Choose the above solution using '1' or cancel using 'c' [1/A]: )
Zypper output.
Are you sure your repositories are refreshed? libzypp 4.0.6 is rather old.. I think they reached libzypp 4.5 already... also yast2-qt-pkg is 'already' at version 2.16.31
So I actually think your issue is a completely different one, maybe due to not refreshed repositories or wrong repo choices (or I read something that the dVD repo might have higher priority.. so maybe you have the cd repo active?)
Well, the issue might be obsolete repos, but the message is still confusing. Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
Well, the issue might be obsolete repos, but the message is still confusing.
Stano
I was not telling about the 'confusingness' of the message, i was actualy telling that i could give an opposite of the message Benji wrote, but not atm, because i cann't use Yast, because of the fact, that i can not install a pkg, because of the lack of another. And smart would not install it either. About intuitiveness of commands... oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> sudo zypper up yast2 root's password: Too many arguments. Usage: update (up) [options] Update all installed resolvables with newer versions, where applicable. Command options: -t, --type <type> Type of resolvable (package, patch, pattern, product) Default: patch -r, --repo <alias|#|URI> Limit updates to the repository specified bythe alias. --skip-interactive Skip interactive updates -l, --auto-agree-with-licenses Automatically say 'yes' to third party license confirmation prompt. See man zypper for more details. --best-effort Do a 'best effort' approach to update, updates to a lower than latest-and-greatest version are also acceptable --debug-solver Create solver test case for debugging -R, --force-resolution <on|off> Force the solver to find a solution (even agressive) -D, --dry-run Test the update, do not actually update oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> sudo zypper up -t yast2 Unknown resolvable type 'yast2'. oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> sudo zypper up -t yast Unknown resolvable type 'yast'. oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 14:40, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
Well, the issue might be obsolete repos, but the message is still confusing.
Stano
I was not telling about the 'confusingness' of the message, i was actualy telling that i could give an opposite of the message Benji wrote, but not atm, because i cann't use Yast, because of the fact, that i can not install a pkg, because of the lack of another.
And smart would not install it either.
About intuitiveness of commands...
oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> sudo zypper up yast2 root's password: Too many arguments. Usage: update (up) [options]
Wrong usage of zypper... you can zypper in yast. What I do quiet often is: su - zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in This updates all the yast2 packages to the latest versions and normally works pretty well. Advise: run zypper refresh before that. zypper up is not used to update single packages like this... Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
Wrong usage of zypper... you can zypper in yast.
What I do quiet often is: su - zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in
This updates all the yast2 packages to the latest versions and normally works pretty well. Advise: run zypper refresh before that.
zypper up is not used to update single packages like this...
Dominique
Well, thnx for this info :) I am going to try it rightaway... -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Oddball schreef:
Well, thnx for this info :) I am going to try it rightaway...
Well, after refreshing i pasted the line and imediately began to argue, not giving me a chance to name a pkg, or hit enter.... I attached the output. If you look close at it, you will notice some very 'unfriendly' habits of zypper... -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> sudo zypper refresh root's password: * Downloading repository 'KDE4-stable-community' metadata. * Building repository 'KDE4-stable-community' cache * Downloading repository 'KDE4-unstable-desktop' metadata. * Building repository 'KDE4-unstable-desktop' cache * Downloading repository 'KDE4-Unstable-extra' metadata. * Building repository 'KDE4-Unstable-extra' cache * Downloading repository 'KDE4-stable-extra' metadata. * Building repository 'KDE4-stable-extra' cache * Downloading repository 'KDE4-stable-desktop' metadata. * Building repository 'KDE4-stable-desktop' cache * Downloading repository 'Factory' metadata. * Building repository 'Factory' cache * Downloading repository 'Non-oss' metadata. * Building repository 'Non-oss' cache * Downloading repository 'Mozilla' metadata. * Building repository 'Mozilla' cache * Downloading repository 'Debug' metadata. * Building repository 'Debug' cache All repositories have been refreshed. oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required. install (in) [options] <capability|rpm_file_uri> ... Install resolvables with specified capabilities or RPM files with specified location. A capability is NAME[OP<VERSION>], where OP is one of <, <=, =, >=, >. Command options: -r, --repo <alias|#|URI> Install resolvables only from repository specified by alias. -t, --type <type> Type of resolvable (package, patch, pattern, product) Default: package -n, --name Select resolvables by plain name, not by capability -C, --capability Select resolvables by capability -f, --force Install even if the item is already installed (reinstall) -l, --auto-agree-with-licenses Automatically say 'yes' to third party license confirmation prompt. See 'man zypper' for more details. --debug-solver Create solver test case for debugging -R, --force-resolution <on|off> Force the solver to find a solution (even agressive) -D, --dry-run Test the installation, do not actually install oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Yast Root privileges are required for installing or uninstalling packages. oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> su Password: AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required. install (in) [options] <capability|rpm_file_uri> ... Install resolvables with specified capabilities or RPM files with specified location. A capability is NAME[OP<VERSION>], where OP is one of <, <=, =, >=, >. Command options: -r, --repo <alias|#|URI> Install resolvables only from repository specified by alias. -t, --type <type> Type of resolvable (package, patch, pattern, product) Default: package -n, --name Select resolvables by plain name, not by capability -C, --capability Select resolvables by capability -f, --force Install even if the item is already installed (reinstall) -l, --auto-agree-with-licenses Automatically say 'yes' to third party license confirmation prompt. See 'man zypper' for more details. --debug-solver Create solver test case for debugging -R, --force-resolution <on|off> Force the solver to find a solution (even agressive) -D, --dry-run Test the installation, do not actually install AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in yast Reading installed packages... Warning: package 'yast' not found Nothing to do. AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in yast2 Reading installed packages... skipping package 'yast2' (the newest version already installed) Nothing to do. AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball #
On 4/8/2008 at 15:18, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: Oddball schreef: Well, thnx for this info :) I am going to try it rightaway...
Well, after refreshing i pasted the line and imediately began to argue, not giving me a chance to name a pkg, or hit enter.... I attached the output. If you look close at it, you will notice some very 'unfriendly' habits of zypper...
you most likely are up to par with your factory... what does zypper lu -t package give you? Is there ANY package from yast2* in the list? Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 15:29, "Dominique Leuenberger" <Dominique.Leuenberger@TMF-Group.com> wrote:
On 4/8/2008 at 15:18, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: Oddball schreef: Well, thnx for this info :) I am going to try it rightaway...
Well, after refreshing i pasted the line and imediately began to argue, not giving me a chance to name a pkg, or hit enter.... I attached the output. If you look close at it, you will notice some very 'unfriendly' habits of zypper...
btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a filter which packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
On 4/8/2008 at 15:29, "Dominique Leuenberger"
<Dominique.Leuenberger@TMF-Group.com> wrote:
On 4/8/2008 at 15:18, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Oddball schreef:
Well, thnx for this info :) I am going to try it rightaway...
Well, after refreshing i pasted the line and imediately began to argue, not giving me a chance to name a pkg, or hit enter.... I attached the output. If you look close at it, you will notice some very 'unfriendly' habits of zypper...
btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a filter which packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
Dominique
The problem still exists: skipping package 'yast2' (the newest version already installed) Nothing to do. AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper in yast2-qt-pkg Reading installed packages... Problem: nothing provides libzypp.so.406()(64bit) needed by yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Solution 1: do not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Choose the above solution using '1' or cancel using 'c' [1/C]: -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> [Apr 08. 2008 15:42]:
The problem still exists:
skipping package 'yast2' (the newest version already installed) Nothing to do. AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper in yast2-qt-pkg Reading installed packages...
Problem: nothing provides libzypp.so.406()(64bit) needed by yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Solution 1: do not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64
Current factory is not fully built. libzypp is already at 4.1.something and yast2-qt-pkg hasn't been rebuild yet. Wait for the next factory sync. Klaus --- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Klaus Kaempf schreef:
Current factory is not fully built. libzypp is already at 4.1.something and yast2-qt-pkg hasn't been rebuild yet.
Wait for the next factory sync.
Klaus ---
OK. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 15:43, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: The problem still exists:
skipping package 'yast2' (the newest version already installed) Nothing to do. AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper in yast2-qt-pkg Reading installed packages...
Problem: nothing provides libzypp.so.406()(64bit) needed by yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Solution 1: do not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64
Choose the above solution using '1' or cancel using 'c' [1/C]:
Check your repositories... this yast2-qt-pkg version does not exist in factory anymore... what does 'zypper rl' tell you? I think you have conflicting repositories for some reasons. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a filter which packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
Dominique
About that i can say: Not on this PC. AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 15:47, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a filter which packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
Dominique
About that i can say: Not on this PC.
AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required.
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty.
Dominique
There are many updates from KDE4 atm, as you can see in the other posting to the zypper devs.... -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 16:20, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty.
Dominique
There are many updates from KDE4 atm, as you can see in the other posting to the zypper devs....
yes.. kde4 != yast2, is it? you issued a zypper dup on the other post but there is not a single yast package in the list... so I honestly think, there is no yast package available for you. as said: best check with zypper lu -t package to see what packages are availabel (package in lu -t package is literal, do not replace with a package name) Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
yes.. kde4 != yast2, is it?
you issued a zypper dup on the other post but there is not a single yast package in the list... so I honestly think, there is no yast package available for you.
as said: best check with zypper lu -t package to see what packages are availabel (package in lu -t package is literal, do not replace with a package name)
Dominique
Sorry, i did not mean that, just that zypper was busy at the time.. ;) But i was told by Klaus Kaempf, that next sync would complete yast. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
On 4/8/2008 at 15:47, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a filter which
packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
Dominique
About that i can say: Not on this PC.
AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required.
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty.
Dominique
Hi dominique, Finaly got the chance to see your 'advice' working! Works like a charm indeed, output in attachment ;) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Reading installed packages... The following packages are going to be upgraded: zypper yast2-ycp-ui-bindings yast2-xml yast2-users yast2-update-FACTORY yast2-update yast2-tune yast2-transfer yast2-storage-lib yast2-storage yast2-sound yast2-slp yast2-scanner yast2-qt yast2-profile-manager yast2-printer yast2-pkg-bindings yast2-perl-bindings yast2-packager yast2-nis-client yast2-network yast2-ncurses-pkg yast2-ncurses yast2-mouse yast2-libyui yast2-ldap yast2-hardware-detection yast2-fingerprint-reader yast2-country-data yast2-country yast2-core yast2-control-center-qt yast2-control-center yast2-bootloader yast2 satsolver-tools libzypp libxcrypt yast2-x11 yast2-tv yast2-trans-stats yast2-theme-openSUSE yast2-sysconfig yast2-support yast2-sudo yast2-security yast2-schema yast2-runlevel yast2-restore yast2-repair yast2-registration yast2-pam yast2-online-update-frontend yast2-online-update yast2-ntp-client yast2-nfs-client yast2-metapackage-handler yast2-mail yast2-ldap-client yast2-kerberos-client yast2-iscsi-client yast2-irda yast2-installation yast2-inetd yast2-firewall yast2-backup yast2-apparmor yast2-add-on autoyast2-installation glibc-devel glibc glibc-locale Overall download size: 33,7 M. After the operation, additional 46,4 M will be used. Continue? [YES/no]: Downloading package yast2-country-data-2.16.16-3.x86_64, 35,0 K (154,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-country-data-2.16.16-3.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-country-data-2.16.16-3 Downloading package yast2-trans-stats-2.15.0-73.noarch, 8,0 K (1,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-trans-stats-2.15.0-73.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-trans-stats-2.15.0-73 Downloading package yast2-theme-openSUSE-2.16.19-2.noarch, 2,9 M (3,0 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-theme-openSUSE-2.16.19-2.noarch.rpm [done (165,9 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-theme-openSUSE-2.16.19-2 Downloading package yast2-schema-2.15.0-201.noarch, 59,0 K (832,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-schema-2.15.0-201.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-schema-2.15.0-201 Downloading package glibc-2.8-6.8.un.x86_64, 5,4 M (21,9 M unpacked) * Downloading: glibc-2.8-6.8.un.x86_64.rpm [done (168,7 K/s)] * Installing: glibc-2.8-6.8.un Downloading package yast2-storage-lib-2.16.17-3.x86_64, 548,0 K (1,5 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-storage-lib-2.16.17-3.x86_64.rpm [done (133,8 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-storage-lib-2.16.17-3 Downloading package yast2-libyui-2.16.43-2.x86_64, 157,0 K (588,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-libyui-2.16.43-2.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-libyui-2.16.43-2 Downloading package satsolver-tools-0.0.26-2.x86_64, 148,0 K (1,4 M unpacked) * Downloading: satsolver-tools-0.0.26-2.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: satsolver-tools-0.0.26-2 Downloading package libxcrypt-3.0-5.x86_64, 41,0 K (153,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: libxcrypt-3.0-5.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: libxcrypt-3.0-5 Downloading package glibc-devel-2.8-6.8.un.x86_64, 4,7 M (29,9 M unpacked) * Downloading: glibc-devel-2.8-6.8.un.x86_64.rpm [done (168,2 K/s)] * Installing: glibc-devel-2.8-6.8.un Downloading package glibc-locale-2.8-6.8.un.x86_64, 9,2 M (92,6 M unpacked) * Downloading: glibc-locale-2.8-6.8.un.x86_64.rpm [done (168,9 K/s)] * Installing: glibc-locale-2.8-6.8.un Downloading package yast2-qt-2.16.38-2.x86_64, 293,0 K (1,1 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-qt-2.16.38-2.x86_64.rpm [done (75,7 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-qt-2.16.38-2 Downloading package yast2-ncurses-2.16.24-2.x86_64, 295,0 K (1,0 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-ncurses-2.16.24-2.x86_64.rpm [done (93,3 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-ncurses-2.16.24-2 Downloading package yast2-core-2.16.47-2.x86_64, 924,0 K (3,1 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-core-2.16.47-2.x86_64.rpm [done (154,7 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-core-2.16.47-2 Downloading package libzypp-4.11.0-2.x86_64, 1,5 M (5,4 M unpacked) * Downloading: libzypp-4.11.0-2.x86_64.rpm [done (157,4 K/s)] * Installing: libzypp-4.11.0-2 Downloading package zypper-0.10.6-2.x86_64, 443,0 K (1,7 M unpacked) * Downloading: zypper-0.10.6-2.x86_64.rpm [done (109,8 K/s)] * Installing: zypper-0.10.6-2 Downloading package yast2-ycp-ui-bindings-2.16.43-2.x86_64, 196,0 K (601,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-ycp-ui-bindings-2.16.43-2.x86_64.rpm [done (36,8 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-ycp-ui-bindings-2.16.43-2 Downloading package yast2-xml-2.16.0-44.x86_64, 62,0 K (255,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-xml-2.16.0-44.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-xml-2.16.0-44 Downloading package yast2-transfer-2.16.1-52.x86_64, 56,0 K (299,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-transfer-2.16.1-52.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-transfer-2.16.1-52 Downloading package yast2-slp-2.15.0-114.x86_64, 57,0 K (280,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-slp-2.15.0-114.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-slp-2.15.0-114 Downloading package yast2-pkg-bindings-2.16.25-2.x86_64, 391,0 K (1,5 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-pkg-bindings-2.16.25-2.x86_64.rpm [done (104,6 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-pkg-bindings-2.16.25-2 Downloading package yast2-ncurses-pkg-2.16.6-9.x86_64, 174,0 K (576,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-ncurses-pkg-2.16.6-9.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-ncurses-pkg-2.16.6-9 Downloading package yast2-hardware-detection-2.16.1-30.x86_64, 95,0 K (409,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-hardware-detection-2.16.1-30.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-hardware-detection-2.16.1-30 Downloading package yast2-perl-bindings-2.16.6-2.x86_64, 95,0 K (337,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-perl-bindings-2.16.6-2.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-perl-bindings-2.16.6-2 Downloading package yast2-2.16.50-2.x86_64, 576,0 K (3,0 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-2.16.50-2.x86_64.rpm [done (143,6 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-2.16.50-2 Downloading package yast2-update-2.16.5-14.x86_64, 90,0 K (465,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-update-2.16.5-14.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-update-2.16.5-14 Downloading package yast2-storage-2.16.17-3.x86_64, 500,0 K (2,7 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-storage-2.16.17-3.x86_64.rpm [done (132,2 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-storage-2.16.17-3 Downloading package yast2-sound-2.16.7-3.x86_64, 177,0 K (1,0 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-sound-2.16.7-3.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-sound-2.16.7-3 Downloading package yast2-scanner-2.16.4-3.x86_64, 81,0 K (437,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-scanner-2.16.4-3.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-scanner-2.16.4-3 Downloading package yast2-printer-2.16.10-7.x86_64, 311,0 K (3,3 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-printer-2.16.10-7.x86_64.rpm [done (125,1 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-printer-2.16.10-7 Downloading package yast2-mouse-2.16.0-68.x86_64, 25,0 K (87,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-mouse-2.16.0-68.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-mouse-2.16.0-68 Downloading package yast2-ldap-2.16.0-28.x86_64, 106,0 K (456,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-ldap-2.16.0-28.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-ldap-2.16.0-28 Downloading package yast2-country-2.16.16-3.x86_64, 93,0 K (456,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-country-2.16.16-3.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-country-2.16.16-3 Downloading package yast2-control-center-2.16.0-40.x86_64, 9,0 K (6,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-control-center-2.16.0-40.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-control-center-2.16.0-40 Downloading package yast2-x11-2.15.11-118.noarch, 82,0 K (815,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-x11-2.15.11-118.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-x11-2.15.11-118 Downloading package yast2-sysconfig-2.16.0-4.noarch, 56,0 K (284,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-sysconfig-2.16.0-4.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-sysconfig-2.16.0-4 Downloading package yast2-support-2.15.4-10.noarch, 24,0 K (58,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-support-2.15.4-10.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-support-2.15.4-10 Downloading package yast2-runlevel-2.16.2-11.noarch, 48,0 K (182,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-runlevel-2.16.2-11.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-runlevel-2.16.2-11 Downloading package yast2-pam-2.16.1-10.noarch, 28,0 K (128,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-pam-2.16.1-10.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-pam-2.16.1-10 Downloading package yast2-ntp-client-2.16.7-3.noarch, 79,0 K (451,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-ntp-client-2.16.7-3.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-ntp-client-2.16.7-3 Downloading package yast2-nfs-client-2.16.0-4.noarch, 99,0 K (238,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-nfs-client-2.16.0-4.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-nfs-client-2.16.0-4 Downloading package yast2-irda-2.15.1-178.noarch, 19,0 K (59,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-irda-2.15.1-178.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-irda-2.15.1-178 Downloading package yast2-firewall-2.16.1-4.noarch, 79,0 K (477,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-firewall-2.16.1-4.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-firewall-2.16.1-4 Downloading package yast2-apparmor-2.16.1-7.noarch, 84,0 K (399,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-apparmor-2.16.1-7.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-apparmor-2.16.1-7 Downloading package yast2-update-FACTORY-2.16.5-14.x86_64, 14,0 K (5,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-update-FACTORY-2.16.5-14.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-update-FACTORY-2.16.5-14 Downloading package yast2-nis-client-2.16.1-10.x86_64, 227,0 K (516,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-nis-client-2.16.1-10.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-nis-client-2.16.1-10 Downloading package yast2-fingerprint-reader-2.16.6-8.x86_64, 58,0 K (270,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-fingerprint-reader-2.16.6-8.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-fingerprint-reader-2.16.6-8 Downloading package yast2-control-center-qt-2.16.0-40.x86_64, 67,0 K (198,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-control-center-qt-2.16.0-40.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-control-center-qt-2.16.0-40 Downloading package yast2-bootloader-2.16.9-3.x86_64, 288,0 K (2,0 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-bootloader-2.16.9-3.x86_64.rpm [done (89,8 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-bootloader-2.16.9-3 Downloading package yast2-tv-2.16.4-4.noarch, 197,0 K (1,0 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-tv-2.16.4-4.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-tv-2.16.4-4 Downloading package yast2-security-2.15.1-107.noarch, 39,0 K (188,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-security-2.15.1-107.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-security-2.15.1-107 Downloading package yast2-kerberos-client-2.16.8-3.noarch, 40,0 K (187,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-kerberos-client-2.16.8-3.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-kerberos-client-2.16.8-3 Downloading package autoyast2-installation-2.16.14-3.noarch, 173,0 K (1,2 M unpacked) * Downloading: autoyast2-installation-2.16.14-3.noarch.rpm [done (84,1 K/s)] * Installing: autoyast2-installation-2.16.14-3 Downloading package yast2-tune-2.16.1-6.x86_64, 77,0 K (435,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-tune-2.16.1-6.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-tune-2.16.1-6 Downloading package yast2-restore-2.16.0-71.noarch, 62,0 K (364,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-restore-2.16.0-71.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-restore-2.16.0-71 Downloading package yast2-repair-2.16.7-3.noarch, 265,0 K (1,8 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-repair-2.16.7-3.noarch.rpm [done (131,5 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-repair-2.16.7-3 Downloading package yast2-installation-2.16.33-3.noarch, 196,0 K (600,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-installation-2.16.33-3.noarch.rpm [done (64,3 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-installation-2.16.33-3 Downloading package yast2-backup-2.16.3-21.noarch, 160,0 K (672,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-backup-2.16.3-21.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-backup-2.16.3-21 Downloading package yast2-packager-2.16.32-3.x86_64, 296,0 K (1,5 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-packager-2.16.32-3.x86_64.rpm [done (92,4 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-packager-2.16.32-3 Downloading package yast2-network-2.16.36-4.x86_64, 305,0 K (1,9 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-network-2.16.36-4.x86_64.rpm [done (130,8 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-network-2.16.36-4 Downloading package yast2-registration-2.16.1-21.noarch, 134,0 K (247,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-registration-2.16.1-21.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-registration-2.16.1-21 Downloading package yast2-online-update-2.16.10-3.noarch, 56,0 K (241,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-online-update-2.16.10-3.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-online-update-2.16.10-3 Downloading package yast2-metapackage-handler-0.8.2-3.noarch, 43,0 K (192,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-metapackage-handler-0.8.2-3.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-metapackage-handler-0.8.2-3 Downloading package yast2-iscsi-client-2.16.8-19.noarch, 42,0 K (201,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-iscsi-client-2.16.8-19.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-iscsi-client-2.16.8-19 Downloading package yast2-add-on-2.16.1-44.noarch, 36,0 K (121,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-add-on-2.16.1-44.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-add-on-2.16.1-44 Downloading package yast2-online-update-frontend-2.16.10-3.noarch, 8,0 K (2,0 K unpacked) | Downloading: yast2-online-update-frontend-2.16.10-3.noarch.rpm [54% (4,2 K/* Downloading: yast2-online-update-frontend-2.16.10-3.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-online-update-frontend-2.16.10-3 Downloading package yast2-ldap-client-2.16.11-8.noarch, 91,0 K (499,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-ldap-client-2.16.11-8.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-ldap-client-2.16.11-8 Downloading package yast2-users-2.16.24-3.x86_64, 200,0 K (1,0 M unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-users-2.16.24-3.x86_64.rpm [done (44,5 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-users-2.16.24-3 Downloading package yast2-profile-manager-2.16.0-69.x86_64, 113,0 K (472,0 Kunpacked) * Downloading: yast2-profile-manager-2.16.0-69.x86_64.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-profile-manager-2.16.0-69 Downloading package yast2-sudo-2.16.0-44.noarch, 36,0 K (172,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-sudo-2.16.0-44.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-sudo-2.16.0-44 Downloading package yast2-mail-2.16.0-44.noarch, 125,0 K (714,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-mail-2.16.0-44.noarch.rpm [done] * Installing: yast2-mail-2.16.0-44 Downloading package yast2-inetd-2.15.1-127.noarch, 269,0 K (557,0 K unpacked) * Downloading: yast2-inetd-2.15.1-127.noarch.rpm [done (77,1 K/s)] * Installing: yast2-inetd-2.15.1-127 AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball #
Oddball schreef:
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
On 4/8/2008 at 15:47, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a filter which packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
Dominique
About that i can say: Not on this PC.
AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required.
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty.
Dominique
Hi dominique,
Finaly got the chance to see your 'advice' working! Works like a charm indeed, output in attachment ;)
Helas i am still not able to use the gui.. :( (still the same issue, see attached snapshot) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4"
Oddball schreef:
Oddball schreef:
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
On 4/8/2008 at 15:47, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a filter which packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
Dominique
About that i can say: Not on this PC.
AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required.
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty.
Dominique
Hi dominique,
Finaly got the chance to see your 'advice' working! Works like a charm indeed, output in attachment ;)
Helas i am still not able to use the gui.. :( (still the same issue, see attached snapshot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was because it was not installed, now i seem to have more luck ;) (hope this is all..?) oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> sudo zypper in yast2-qt-pkg root's password: Reading installed packages... The following NEW packages are going to be installed: yast2-qt-pkg ispell-dutch checkmedia aspell-nl MozillaFirefox-translations yast2-trans-nl opensuse-manual_en myspell-dutch kde3-i18n-nl bundle-lang-kde-nl bundle-lang-kde-en bundle-lang-common-nl bundle-lang-common-en OpenOffice_org-templates-en OpenOffice_org-nl kde4-l10n-nl mozilla-xulrunner190-lang Overall download size: 80,9 M. After the operation, additional 158,7 M will be used. Continue? [YES/no]: y -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/16/2008 at 11:20 AM, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: Oddball schreef: Oddball schreef: Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
> On 4/8/2008 at 15:47, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: > Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a filter which packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
Dominique
About that i can say: Not on this PC.
AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required.
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty.
Dominique
Hi dominique,
Finaly got the chance to see your 'advice' working! Works like a charm indeed, output in attachment ;)
Helas i am still not able to use the gui.. :( (still the same issue, see attached snapshot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was because it was not installed, now i seem to have more luck ;) (hope this is all..?)
In this case I would say something is missing a dependency to yast2-qt-pkg that should have it. This state should never be able to appear. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
On 4/16/2008 at 11:20 AM, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Oddball schreef:
Oddball schreef:
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
>> On 4/8/2008 at 15:47, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote: >> >> Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
> btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a > filter which > packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
> Dominique > > > > > About that i can say: Not on this PC.
AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required.
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty.
Dominique
Hi dominique,
Finaly got the chance to see your 'advice' working! Works like a charm indeed, output in attachment ;)
Helas i am still not able to use the gui.. :( (still the same issue, see attached snapshot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was because it was not installed, now i seem to have more luck ;) (hope this is all..?)
In this case I would say something is missing a dependency to yast2-qt-pkg that should have it.
This state should never be able to appear.
Dominique
I agree, it is most uncomfortable, softly spoken... ;) Anyway the new gui is partly transparent, showing its 'underwear', see snapshot: And, a more specific conflicts list is possible now, with a working yast ;) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" #### YaST2 conflicts list - generated 2008-04-16 11:31:52 #### nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.x86_64 [ ] kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdelibs4-4.0.69-2.7.x86_64 [ ] kdelibs4-4.0.69-2.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] extragear-plasma-4.0.69.svn795714-1.5.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kget-4.0.69-1.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kdegames4-4.0.69-4.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-krfb-4.0.69-1.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-konqueror-4.0.69-2.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kgamma-4.0.69-2.5.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kopete-4.0.69-1.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-konsole-4.0.69-2.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kate-4.0.69-1.4.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kdeartwork4-screensaver-4.0.69-1.5.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kmahjongg-4.0.69-4.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kreversi-4.0.69-4.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kpat-4.0.69-4.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-knewsticker-4.0.69-1.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-okular-4.0.69-2.5.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kcolorchooser-4.0.69-2.5.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kdebase4-workspace-plasmoids-4.0.66-1.26.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kmines-4.0.69-4.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kwrite-4.0.69-2.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kdnssd-4.0.69-1.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-ksudoku-4.0.69-4.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kmix-4.0.69-2.6.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-keditbookmarks-4.0.69-2.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kdemultimedia4-4.0.69-2.6.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-krdc-4.0.69-1.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kio_kamera-4.0.69-2.5.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-ksnapshot-4.0.69-2.5.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kscd-4.0.69-2.6.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kdebase4-4.0.69-2.7.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-kio_audiocd-4.0.69-2.6.x86_64 niet installeren nothing provides libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 [ ] kde4-dolphin-4.0.69-2.7.x86_64 niet installeren #### YaST2 conflicts list END ###
Oddball schreef:
I agree, it is most uncomfortable, softly spoken... ;) Anyway the new gui is partly transparent, showing its 'underwear', see snapshot: And, a more specific conflicts list is possible now, with a working yast ;)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This behaviour was caused by the dutch and english gui mixed. Reboot fixed it. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Oddball schreef:
Oddball schreef:
I agree, it is most uncomfortable, softly spoken... ;) Anyway the new gui is partly transparent, showing its 'underwear', see snapshot: And, a more specific conflicts list is possible now, with a working yast ;)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This behaviour was caused by the dutch and english gui mixed. Reboot fixed it.
No it did not, the software install interface is normal now, but update factory still shows the same as on snapshot, when pkgs have to be manualy verified. Will file a bug. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 11:24:46 Dominique Leuenberger ste napísal:
On 4/16/2008 at 11:20 AM, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Oddball schreef:
Oddball schreef:
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
>> On 4/8/2008 at 15:47, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Dominique Leuenberger schreef: > btw: naming a package is done in the awk call. there you have a > filter which
packages out of the available list, matching the regex, shall be updated.
> Dominique
About that i can say: Not on this PC.
AMD64x2-sfn1:/home/oddball # zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in Too few arguments. At least one package name is required.
try simply zypper lu -t package to see what output you get... apparently, awk does not have a single hit and thus the list given to zypper is empty.
Dominique
Hi dominique,
Finaly got the chance to see your 'advice' working! Works like a charm indeed, output in attachment ;)
Helas i am still not able to use the gui.. :( (still the same issue, see attached snapshot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was because it was not installed, now i seem to have more luck ;) (hope this is all..?)
In this case I would say something is missing a dependency to yast2-qt-pkg that should have it.
This state should never be able to appear.
The problem is that yast2-qt-pkg is recommended only. In principle, whole YaST can work without the packageselector widget (or with your new one you are going to implement :-)). I believe there is a bug dealing with the issue. Using default install, this should not happen. But the new flexibility gives user possibility to screw the system. Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
The problem is that yast2-qt-pkg is recommended only. In principle, whole YaST can work without the packageselector widget (or with your new one you are going to implement :-)).
I believe there is a bug dealing with the issue. Using default install, this should not happen. But the new flexibility gives user possibility to screw the system.
Stano
Hmmm... Without it, the qt interface would not work.. The 'screwing' happened after a server-time out, which is not my doing. The only thing i did, was maybe try to update at the wrong moment :) About working without qt, you mean the 'dos' or midnight commander interface, or another? How to choose that other one? -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 14:14:44 Oddball ste napísal:
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
The problem is that yast2-qt-pkg is recommended only. In principle, whole YaST can work without the packageselector widget (or with your new one you are going to implement :-)).
I believe there is a bug dealing with the issue. Using default install, this should not happen. But the new flexibility gives user possibility to screw the system.
Stano
Hmmm... Without it, the qt interface would not work..
YaST package management and online update will not work. All other modules will work. That's the difference. Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/16/2008 at 2:32 PM, Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov@suse.cz> wrote: Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 14:14:44 Oddball ste napísal: Stanislav Visnovsky schreef: The problem is that yast2-qt-pkg is recommended only. In principle, whole YaST can work without the packageselector widget (or with your new one you are going to implement :-)).
I believe there is a bug dealing with the issue. Using default install, this should not happen. But the new flexibility gives user possibility to screw the system.
Stano
Hmmm... Without it, the qt interface would not work..
YaST package management and online update will not work. All other modules will work. That's the difference.
so in this case, yast2-package-manager (or whatever it's name is) should Require yast2-qt-pkg. Or fall back to another UI in case it can not load it (ncurses is most likely available) Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
so in this case, yast2-package-manager (or whatever it's name is) should Require yast2-qt-pkg. Or fall back to another UI in case it can not load it (ncurses is most likely available)
Dominique
I hear about ncurses all the time, how to use that? (or is it the cli midnight-commander like interface?) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2008-04-16 at 15:47 +0200, Oddball wrote:
I hear about ncurses all the time, how to use that? (or is it the cli midnight-commander like interface?)
yes - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIBgdUtTMYHG2NR9URArLkAJwNLKjY2G7Igq/xCA3Ng8/QOfIkxwCZAd8h WUqyTAOweuw1fJFIXeVBlaE= =SE/F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. schreef:
The Wednesday 2008-04-16 at 15:47 +0200, Oddball wrote:
I hear about ncurses all the time, how to use that? (or is it the cli midnight-commander like interface?)
yes
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Thnx for replying ;) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Oddball wrote:
I hear about ncurses all the time, how to use that? (or is it the cli midnight-commander like interface?)
if it is installed, unset DISPLAY yast2 -- RPMLINT information under http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/RpmLint --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 16:09:29 Dirk Mueller ste napísal:
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Oddball wrote:
I hear about ncurses all the time, how to use that? (or is it the cli midnight-commander like interface?)
if it is installed,
zypper in yast2-ncurses yast2-ncurses-pkg
unset DISPLAY yast2
or simply 'yast' Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 16:09:29 Dirk Mueller ste napísal:
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Oddball wrote:
I hear about ncurses all the time, how to use that? (or is it the cli midnight-commander like interface?)
if it is installed,
zypper in yast2-ncurses yast2-ncurses-pkg
unset DISPLAY yast2
or simply 'yast'
Stano
Yes, these are installed, and working. I use them rarely. They work okay, but i mostly concentrate on the apps that don't :), from the nature of my involvement ofcourse.. ;)
-- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 14:43:13 Dominique Leuenberger ste napísal:
On 4/16/2008 at 2:32 PM, Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov@suse.cz>
wrote:
Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 14:14:44 Oddball ste napísal:
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
The problem is that yast2-qt-pkg is recommended only. In
principle, whole
YaST can work without the packageselector widget (or with your new
one
you are going to implement :-)).
I believe there is a bug dealing with the issue. Using default
install,
this should not happen. But the new flexibility gives user
possibility to
screw the system.
Stano
Hmmm... Without it, the qt interface would not work..
YaST package management and online update will not work. All other
modules
will work. That's the difference.
so in this case, yast2-package-manager (or whatever it's name is) should Require yast2-qt-pkg.
or yast2-ncurses-pkg? It's not trivial problem to be solved by dependencies.
Or fall back to another UI in case it can not load it (ncurses is most likely available)
I would rather like the UI identifying that the package is missing, provide an easy way to install it and try again. Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 14:43:13 Dominique Leuenberger ste napísal:
On 4/16/2008 at 2:32 PM, Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov@suse.cz>
wrote:
Dňa Wednesday 16 April 2008 14:14:44 Oddball ste napísal:
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
The problem is that yast2-qt-pkg is recommended only. In
principle, whole
YaST can work without the packageselector widget (or with your new
one
you are going to implement :-)).
I believe there is a bug dealing with the issue. Using default
install,
this should not happen. But the new flexibility gives user
possibility to
screw the system.
Stano
Hmmm... Without it, the qt interface would not work..
YaST package management and online update will not work. All other
modules
will work. That's the difference.
so in this case, yast2-package-manager (or whatever it's name is) should Require yast2-qt-pkg.
or yast2-ncurses-pkg? It's not trivial problem to be solved by dependencies.
Or fall back to another UI in case it can not load it (ncurses is most likely available)
I would rather like the UI identifying that the package is missing, provide an easy way to install it and try again.
Stano
Yes, that would be 'swell', that it would provide an easy way to install, which it does, actualy, but the pkg seems not to be found. Like now, 33 pkgs depending on libqt4-x11 >= 4.3.95+20080413 needed by kdebase4-runtime-4.0.69-2.6.i586 And i don't understand why a 64 bit install needs 32 bits runtime, but i might be mistaken about this.... -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky schreef:
YaST package management and online update will not work. All other modules will work. That's the difference.
Not all of them xinetd doesn't work either, but that can have another cause ;) (see screenshot) http://s65.photobucket.com/albums/h204/Monkey999999999999999/?action=view¤t=Yast3.png Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/04/08 14:44 (GMT+0200) Dominique Leuenberger apparently typed:
On 4/8/2008 at 14:40, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
About intuitiveness of commands...
oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1:~> sudo zypper up yast2 root's password: Too many arguments. Usage: update (up) [options]
Wrong usage of zypper... you can zypper in yast.
What I do quiet often is: su - zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in
What mere mortal user would ever understand all that, much less remember it?
This updates all the yast2 packages to the latest versions and normally works pretty well. Advise: run zypper refresh before that.
zypper up is not used to update single packages like this...
So zypper up is not used to update single packages "like this". So is it used like something else? If so, what? I couldn't make out any in the man page, which is reason #2 why I use smart instead of zypper. -- "Either the constitution controls the judges, or the judges rewrite the constitution." Judge Robert Bork Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 15:17, Felix Miata <mrmazda@ij.net> wrote: What I do quiet often is: su - zypper lu -t package | awk -F\| '/yast2/ { print $3}' | xargs zypper in
What mere mortal user would ever understand all that, much less remember it?
I do :) And somehow I assume I'm still mortal. Remembering it is rather easy, once you understand it. zypper lu -t package -> lists all available packages available for update awk -F\| '/yast2/ {print $3}' -> Get's all the lines that contain yast2 (so it's not perfect, in case you have a repo called yast2); -F\| tell's awk to 'split' the fields at the pipe symbol (it's used on screen to give the nice table with zypper lu -t package... the package name is the 3rd field in this table); /yast2/ is a simple regex used as a filter... print $3 prints the 3rd field of the table xargs zypper in -> takes the output from the previous command and constructs a command line out of it... the construct is passed on to the command 'zypper in'... thus starting zypper in yast2* ;)
This updates all the yast2 packages to the latest versions and normally works pretty well. Advise: run zypper refresh before that.
zypper up is not used to update single packages like this...
So zypper up is not used to update single packages "like this". So is it used like something else? If so, what? I couldn't make out any in the man page, which is reason #2 why I use smart instead of zypper.
zypper up is meant to install all available patches; zypper up -t package is meant to install all available packages. if you want to update single packages, then you 'install' the new version. This is a huge difference compared to rpm, where -i != -U A feature I'm also missing is sort of: zypper up -t package yast2* but who knows... this might come later ;) Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger schreef:
On 4/8/2008 at 13:06, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Benji Weber schreef:
On 08/04/2008, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> wrote:
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly.
The conflict messages and suggestions are much better in Factory. Suggestions such as
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/110_conflict.png
are much easier to understand than before, ignoring the confusing use of "uninstallable" to mean "not installable".
I could give an example of the opposit, if yast would be usable for me atm, but due to lack of a provider for libzypp.so.406, i can not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10, without the plugin, the gui doesn't work. (have not tried cli version yet..)
( Problem: nothing provides libzypp.so.406()(64bit) needed by yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64 Solution 1: not install yast2-qt-pkg-2.16.29-10.x86_64
Choose the above solution using '1' or cancel using 'c' [1/A]: )
Zypper output.
Are you sure your repositories are refreshed? libzypp 4.0.6 is rather old.. I think they reached libzypp 4.5 already... also yast2-qt-pkg is 'already' at version 2.16.31
So I actually think your issue is a completely different one, maybe due to not refreshed repositories or wrong repo choices (or I read something that the dVD repo might have higher priority.. so maybe you have the cd repo active?)
Dominique
I know, i got caught in some ugly probs with an unusable, unapprochable and unfixable rpm-database, and had to reinstall. Choose 11.0A3 KDE-CD. I was updating to the factory pkgs, when suffered from server time-outs, that caused yast to close down without retrying. Start it again caused the error. Asking for yast2-qt-pkg, because that was not installed, gave me that error message, the day before yesterday. I used zypper since, but not all is right atm. Due to rootpassword dialog box, that does not accept my root password, i am sentenced to only check and use cli atm. And no, i unchecked the cd right from starting to get up to date again. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Benji Weber wrote:
The conflict messages and suggestions are much better in Factory. Suggestions such as
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/110_conflict.png
are much easier to understand than before, ignoring the confusing use of "uninstallable" to mean "not installable".
Hmm, I could be wrong, but "uninstallable" does seem to mean "not installable"? Instead I think "Do not forbid installation" is pretty unusual - why not say "ignore this dependency/requirement" ? /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/04/2008, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Hmm, I could be wrong, but "uninstallable" does seem to mean "not installable"?
It does here, but a more common interpretation of the word would be "Can be uninstalled". The ambiguity makes it a poor choice here. It is used like this all over zypp too.
Instead I think "Do not forbid installation" is pretty unusual - why not say "ignore this dependency/requirement" ?
Because it's not ignoring the requirement, it's asking about whether to allow installation of a requirement. That's how I read it anyway. -- Benjamin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Benji Weber wrote:
On 08/04/2008, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Hmm, I could be wrong, but "uninstallable" does seem to mean "not installable"?
It does here, but a more common interpretation of the word would be "Can be uninstalled". The ambiguity makes it a poor choice here. It is used like this all over zypp too.
Ah, I see - yes, that's an unnecessary ambiguity.
Instead I think "Do not forbid installation" is pretty unusual - why not say "ignore this dependency/requirement" ?
Because it's not ignoring the requirement, it's asking about whether to allow installation of a requirement. That's how I read it anyway.
Sorry, my mistake, I misread it. "do not forbid" is still pretty quirky IMHO - what's wrong with "allow"? /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 02:18:17PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Benji Weber wrote:
On 08/04/2008, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Hmm, I could be wrong, but "uninstallable" does seem to mean "not installable"?
It does here, but a more common interpretation of the word would be "Can be uninstalled". The ambiguity makes it a poor choice here. It is used like this all over zypp too.
Ah, I see - yes, that's an unnecessary ambiguity.
Instead I think "Do not forbid installation" is pretty unusual - why not say "ignore this dependency/requirement" ?
Because it's not ignoring the requirement, it's asking about whether to allow installation of a requirement. That's how I read it anyway.
Sorry, my mistake, I misread it. "do not forbid" is still pretty quirky IMHO - what's wrong with "allow"?
It's because it speaks about a "lock" setting done by the user. It asks you to remove the lock that forbids the installation of the package. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 02:18:17PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Sorry, my mistake, I misread it. "do not forbid" is still pretty quirky IMHO - what's wrong with "allow"?
It's because it speaks about a "lock" setting done by the user. It asks you to remove the lock that forbids the installation of the package.
I've kinda lost the thread, but I think I understand your point. I'd still prefer to see 'prohibit' instead of 'forbid', but that's a minor thing. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen schreef:
Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 02:18:17PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Sorry, my mistake, I misread it. "do not forbid" is still pretty quirky IMHO - what's wrong with "allow"?
It's because it speaks about a "lock" setting done by the user. It asks you to remove the lock that forbids the installation of the package.
I've kinda lost the thread, but I think I understand your point. I'd still prefer to see 'prohibit' instead of 'forbid', but that's a minor thing.
So you have to get a dictionary from the attic, to find out what 'prohibit' means? -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Oddball wrote:
So you have to get a dictionary from the attic, to find out what 'prohibit' means?
If you understand English, I think it's a fair assumption to say you also know what "prohibit" means. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen schreef:
Oddball wrote:
So you have to get a dictionary from the attic, to find out what 'prohibit' means?
If you understand English, I think it's a fair assumption to say you also know what "prohibit" means.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
I don't like the word at all...it sounds snobbish.. Let us just stay with normal folk, and use normal words... -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Oddball wrote:
If you understand English, I think it's a fair assumption to say you also know what "prohibit" means.
I don't like the word at all...it sounds snobbish.. Let us just stay with normal folk, and use normal words...
Well, I say we use proper English. Just as I would for any other language. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen schreef:
Oddball wrote:
If you understand English, I think it's a fair assumption to say you also know what "prohibit" means.
I don't like the word at all...it sounds snobbish.. Let us just stay with normal folk, and use normal words...
Well, I say we use proper English. Just as I would for any other language.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
It seems you are used to get everything you want, aren't you? -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Please stop this non-sense thread! :) At least go in private mode ;) On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Oddball <monkey9@iae.nl> wrote:
Per Jessen schreef:
Oddball wrote:
If you understand English, I think it's a fair assumption to say you also know what "prohibit" means.
I don't like the word at all...it sounds snobbish.. Let us just stay with normal folk, and use normal words...
Well, I say we use proper English. Just as I would for any other language.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
It seems you are used to get everything you want, aren't you?
--
Enjoy your time around,
Oddball (Now or never...)
OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 6.4"
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-04-10 at 12:28 +0200, Oddball wrote:
I've kinda lost the thread, but I think I understand your point. I'd still prefer to see 'prohibit' instead of 'forbid', but that's a minor thing.
So you have to get a dictionary from the attic, to find out what 'prohibit' means?
You gotta have a dictionary anyway (programmesse-english), to understand some zypper/yast messages... :-P - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH/fOytTMYHG2NR9URAnAcAJ9TVDiSjEV32++6Pa7G3oDPl3R9xwCfSi5D KDYhtMKgJvYCVKGJ4KA5YvE= =YmGN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. schreef:
The Thursday 2008-04-10 at 12:28 +0200, Oddball wrote:
I've kinda lost the thread, but I think I understand your point. I'd still prefer to see 'prohibit' instead of 'forbid', but that's a minor thing.
So you have to get a dictionary from the attic, to find out what 'prohibit' means?
You gotta have a dictionary anyway (programmesse-english), to understand some zypper/yast messages...
:-P
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
LOL true... ;) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Sorry Clayton, but this is opensuse-_factory_ - so I'm interested in feedback on latest development only. And I want to know concrete error messages of specific problems, where $smart handles this more user friendly.
Greetings, Stephan
Hi, I have only used mandrake, which was very bland, besides suse since my introduction to suse 7.3 so I cannot compare yast to any non rpm package manager. I stumbled into factory suse in search of a yast which kept downloaded packages and my wish came true. Unlike most others, my only system is factory and I went through a period where yast was unusable. I tried smart along the way and had a hard time with repositories and keys and also found it to be untrustworthy. The journey was worthwhile because now I have an extremely efficient yast which, if the software versions tab( Bug 354983 ) worked IMHO would be ready for the world. If software management had proper setup for its new features it would be perfect. Just out of interest, aren't debian packages much larger than rpms. Regards Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
I haven't spent enough time with 11.0Alphas to speak for changes there, but in 10.3 and older.... when you open YAST (using all default settings, no after-install tweaks, so as a new user would use it), and select a few packages to be installed, the dependency and conflict resolution does not happen until you either click the Check Dependencies button, or you click Apply... then a window is popped open which basically says, oh by the way I have all these other packages that need to be installed... no clear indication of what extra bits belong to which applicaton.
Isn't there a tickbox to enabled dependency auto-check? WHich is disabled by default as it often takes too long to check for every change. Anyway, does the inexperienced user really care what belongs to the application or not?
In conflict resolution, the window used to display the conflict errors is confusing even to experienced users... and you never feel you really have a handle on what is going on, or what you just did was what you hoped you wanted.
Hmm, I actually quite like that window with conflict resolution.
Looking at software outside of openSUSE... take Synaptic... again from a new user perspective... Synaptic, like Smart, also presents information about the app you are installing/updating... you know when you click on something what the impact is likely to be.
But as a new users aren't you unlikely to have any real need/use for that information? /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen schreef:
Clayton wrote:
I haven't spent enough time with 11.0Alphas to speak for changes there, but in 10.3 and older.... when you open YAST (using all default settings, no after-install tweaks, so as a new user would use it), and select a few packages to be installed, the dependency and conflict resolution does not happen until you either click the Check Dependencies button, or you click Apply... then a window is popped open which basically says, oh by the way I have all these other packages that need to be installed... no clear indication of what extra bits belong to which applicaton.
Isn't there a tickbox to enabled dependency auto-check? WHich is disabled by default as it often takes too long to check for every change.
Anyway, does the inexperienced user really care what belongs to the application or not?
In conflict resolution, the window used to display the conflict errors is confusing even to experienced users... and you never feel you really have a handle on what is going on, or what you just did was what you hoped you wanted.
Hmm, I actually quite like that window with conflict resolution.
Well sometimes, especialy when making the wrong choices, more and more pkgs have to be removed, which causes a crawling up, uncomfortable feeling... Disgarding, and start over, mostly leeds to the right choice, and understanding of what influences what... ;)
Looking at software outside of openSUSE... take Synaptic... again from a new user perspective... Synaptic, like Smart, also presents information about the app you are installing/updating... you know when you click on something what the impact is likely to be.
But as a new users aren't you unlikely to have any real need/use for that information?
/Per Jessen, Zürich
They need it to take away the fear to do something wrong, and wreck their install. They get scared seeing a list with 42 pkgs to be removed, when wanting to add 2... (even scares me sometimes...and after wrecking several installs, and the xtra work that brings, it seems even justified..) With these two; additional 38 pkgs are going to be installed, which balances the equasion a bit... I must admit, that it is very tense, and exiting to use, especialy in the beginning... The gui is good, when versions work again. I used synaptics in debian, and liked it also, but Yast is more mature... jmo. ;), and if the improvements, which are suggested, and shown on screenshots, are realy made, it will be the best pkgmngr ever, i guess. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa Tuesday 08 April 2008 12:15:25 Per Jessen ste napísal:
Clayton wrote:
I haven't spent enough time with 11.0Alphas to speak for changes there, but in 10.3 and older.... when you open YAST (using all default settings, no after-install tweaks, so as a new user would use it), and select a few packages to be installed, the dependency and conflict resolution does not happen until you either click the Check Dependencies button, or you click Apply... then a window is popped open which basically says, oh by the way I have all these other packages that need to be installed... no clear indication of what extra bits belong to which applicaton.
Isn't there a tickbox to enabled dependency auto-check? WHich is disabled by default as it often takes too long to check for every change.
The check is now on again, as the sat-solver speed allows to use that. But this still does not give you a clear information what will be added additionally until you click 'Accept'. Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
Dňa Tuesday 08 April 2008 12:15:25 Per Jessen ste napísal:
Clayton wrote:
I haven't spent enough time with 11.0Alphas to speak for changes there, but in 10.3 and older.... when you open YAST (using all default settings, no after-install tweaks, so as a new user would use it), and select a few packages to be installed, the dependency and conflict resolution does not happen until you either click the Check Dependencies button, or you click Apply... then a window is popped open which basically says, oh by the way I have all these other packages that need to be installed... no clear indication of what extra bits belong to which applicaton.
Isn't there a tickbox to enabled dependency auto-check? WHich is disabled by default as it often takes too long to check for every change.
The check is now on again, as the sat-solver speed allows to use that. But this still does not give you a clear information what will be added additionally until you click 'Accept'.
I'm beginning to think that these usability issues are really down to the experience level of the user. It sounds to me like the inexperienced user likes Ubuntu because it presents him with less choice, less options, and (maybe) less information. And YaST does the opposite, which the experienced user likes. I can almost see the first question asked by YaST during instalaltion: Tick the box: [ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can. [ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me. [ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
It sounds to me like the inexperienced user likes Ubuntu because it presents him with less choice, less options, and (maybe) less information. And YaST does the opposite, which the experienced user likes.
Per, I think you nailed what I was bumbling through and trying to say. C. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 4/8/2008 at 13:15, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote: Tick the box:
[ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can.
[ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me.
[ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.
This is most likely going to improve over time... and a user will always select the last one, believing that the system will have less options / less performance less <fill in the gap>. I don't think it would be really helpful, except having an annoying question more in the install workflow. Dominique --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
On 4/8/2008 at 13:15, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote: Tick the box:
[ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can.
[ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me.
[ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.
This is most likely going to improve over time... and a user will always select the last one, believing that the system will have less options / less performance less <fill in the gap>.
If we can't rely on the user to answer the installation questions truthfully, we're doomed :-(
I don't think it would be really helpful, except having an annoying question more in the install workflow.
I agree we don't need any more questions, but asking the right ones up front might enable the installer to skip others further down the line. Regardless - maybe it's not the best thing to ask questions, but _if_ the users experience level is important wrt usability, then we need some other way of trying to gauge/guesstimate that experience level. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen schreef:
Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
On 4/8/2008 at 13:15, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Tick the box:
[ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can.
[ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me.
[ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.
This is most likely going to improve over time... and a user will always select the last one, believing that the system will have less options / less performance less <fill in the gap>.
If we can't rely on the user to answer the installation questions truthfully, we're doomed :-(
The user will run into him/herself, and will be forced to choose the truthfull answer... And i think *Help me as much as you can*, should realy happen when ticked... I think it is real friendly, when done righteous.
I don't think it would be really helpful, except having an annoying question more in the install workflow.
I agree we don't need any more questions, but asking the right ones up front might enable the installer to skip others further down the line.
+1
Regardless - maybe it's not the best thing to ask questions, but _if_ the users experience level is important wrt usability, then we need some other way of trying to gauge/guesstimate that experience level.
Questions are allright, if the right ones, and there allways should be a 'back' button.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
-- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2008-04-08 at 13:39 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Regardless - maybe it's not the best thing to ask questions, but _if_ the users experience level is important wrt usability, then we need some other way of trying to gauge/guesstimate that experience level.
Quiz? :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+15ftTMYHG2NR9URAqeXAKCG4xgVqoNe/0kQndFen+yk6qfDDgCghwxX XT0VbX9aXcF2YgrOWF4KY38= =e+RH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. schreef:
The Tuesday 2008-04-08 at 13:39 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Regardless - maybe it's not the best thing to ask questions, but _if_ the users experience level is important wrt usability, then we need some other way of trying to gauge/guesstimate that experience level.
Quiz? :-p
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
That can be cool, and lead to the right choice.. ;) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen schreef:
I'm beginning to think that these usability issues are really down to the experience level of the user.
It sounds to me like the inexperienced user likes Ubuntu because it presents him with less choice, less options, and (maybe) less information. And YaST does the opposite, which the experienced user likes.
I can almost see the first question asked by YaST during instalaltion:
Tick the box:
[ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can.
[ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me.
[ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.
/Per Jessen, Zürich
Not so bad at all, ;) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2008-04-08 at 13:15 +0200, Per Jessen wrote: ...
I can almost see the first question asked by YaST during instalaltion:
Tick the box:
[ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can.
[ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me.
[ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.
+1 Plus a method to change it later, like in the midle of a yast software session. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH+1dDtTMYHG2NR9URAm26AJ48boClBL4owCdPDRc8k9buXlCkTACfe0Zm Hx4qJp5lGmbY4stja6B/XqY= =VmvJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/04/2008, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
I'm beginning to think that these usability issues are really down to the experience level of the user.
It sounds to me like the inexperienced user likes Ubuntu because it presents him with less choice, less options, and (maybe) less information. And YaST does the opposite, which the experienced user likes.
I can almost see the first question asked by YaST during instalaltion:
Tick the box:
[ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can.
[ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me.
[ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.
This sort of thing doesn't really work. No-one is experienced in all areas. An expert in configuring something may be completely ignorant in setting up something else. Instead it's sensible to keep things as possible everywhere, provide a path of least resistance through the process, and allow progressive disclosure of greater detail at each stage where required. That allows someone who is an expert in partitioning to customise it manually, and a new user to accept the defaults. How much the user knows about a specific subject cannot really be judged from a generic "Are you a newbie?" question. -- Benjamin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Benji Weber schreef:
On 08/04/2008, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
I'm beginning to think that these usability issues are really down to the experience level of the user.
It sounds to me like the inexperienced user likes Ubuntu because it presents him with less choice, less options, and (maybe) less information. And YaST does the opposite, which the experienced user likes.
I can almost see the first question asked by YaST during instalaltion:
Tick the box:
[ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can.
[ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me.
[ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.
This sort of thing doesn't really work. No-one is experienced in all areas. An expert in configuring something may be completely ignorant in setting up something else.
Instead it's sensible to keep things as possible everywhere, provide a path of least resistance through the process, and allow progressive disclosure of greater detail at each stage where required. That allows someone who is an expert in partitioning to customise it manually, and a new user to accept the defaults. How much the user knows about a specific subject cannot really be judged from a generic "Are you a newbie?" question.
-- Benjamin Weber
The path of least resistance, could be the newbie path? And indeed, it is nessesary fi for me to partition all the right way, but still the default choosen *has* to be the right one. [ ] I am a newbie, but i myself think i am not. The way the proposels are sometimes now, is without any respect for other distro's as M$, even SuSES own, are not recognised as such. Personaly, i find this very disturbing, and does not gain the (new)users trust, if all the other installs, aren't recognised as what they are. The partitioninfo should be true, and not vague. I allways have to have all my partitions written down on a piece of paper, to know what is where. This is a lot of unnessesary xtra work, because, the partitioner *knows* what is where, it just don't tells it. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Benji Weber wrote:
On 08/04/2008, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
I can almost see the first question asked by YaST during instalaltion:
Tick the box:
[ ] I'm a newbie, help me where you can.
[ ] I'm an semi-experienced user, don't hide things from me.
[ ] I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone.
This sort of thing doesn't really work. No-one is experienced in all areas. An expert in configuring something may be completely ignorant in setting up something else.
Perhaps that person should tick the middle box then.
Instead it's sensible to keep things as possible everywhere, provide a path of least resistance through the process, and allow progressive disclosure of greater detail at each stage where required.
Which is what we have today, isn't it? Personally, I'm perfectly happy with both YaST and the installation process as it is, but I think(!) we're discussing how to create a more positive experience for a new/inexperienced user - without making things overly cumbersome for the experienced ditto.
How much the user knows about a specific subject cannot really be judged from a generic "Are you a newbie?" question.
I wasn't suggesting that either. /Per Jessen, Zürich --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow escribió:
Can you give an example where the alternatives are making a better job?
I fully ACK that messages are constantly improving, however when things go wrong in zypp, some particulary geeky messages are shown (taken from thread TTAO: zypper devs, on this same list ;) ) "Can't provide ./x86_64/kde4-kdm-4.0.68-12.4.x86_64.rpm : Media Exception Please see the above error message for a hint." I understand what a "Media Exception" is, but that is clear as mood for the average user, it can be many different problems.. -- "Freedom of religion also means freedom **from** religion" - Anonymous Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
On 08/04/2008, Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@suse.de> wrote:
Stephan Kulow escribió:
Can you give an example where the alternatives are making a better job?
I fully ACK that messages are constantly improving, however when things go wrong in zypp, some particulary geeky messages are shown
(taken from thread TTAO: zypper devs, on this same list ;) )
"Can't provide ./x86_64/kde4-kdm-4.0.68-12.4.x86_64.rpm : Media Exception Please see the above error message for a hint."
I understand what a "Media Exception" is, but that is clear as mood for the average user, it can be many different problems..
The common case when the repository is out of date is at least suggested now https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=377137 -- Benjamin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Benji Weber schreef:
On 08/04/2008, Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@suse.de> wrote:
Stephan Kulow escribió:
Can you give an example where the alternatives are making a better job?
I fully ACK that messages are constantly improving, however when things go wrong in zypp, some particulary geeky messages are shown
(taken from thread TTAO: zypper devs, on this same list ;) )
"Can't provide ./x86_64/kde4-kdm-4.0.68-12.4.x86_64.rpm : Media Exception Please see the above error message for a hint."
I understand what a "Media Exception" is, but that is clear as mood for the average user, it can be many different problems..
The common case when the repository is out of date is at least suggested now
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=377137
-- Benjamin Weber
Personaly i find 'repo out of date, please refresh and retry' more clear than the above. But 'media error' would be more clear than 'exeption' This happens in side the download. I always refresh upfront, because the repos in factory always change.. The download this came from, was about 100+mB, unpacked, so about ten minutes. Inside of this time, the repo changed.. If in this case, i would not know what the pkg meanth, and rebooted, or shut down, there probably would not be a logon and displaymngr...(if Kdm was set as default..) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
So far getting my wireless on my laptop working with SuSE wasn't too hard, but kubuntu is 1 click. With SuSE all the how-to's I read everyone is still suggesting using ndiswrapper which involves cleaning up all the bcmxx stuff first then hunting down the drivers to use with ndiswrapper, installing ndiswrapper and finally configuring ndiswrapper, but with kubuntu it just downloads the firmware automatically and wireless works.
I experimented with this, I found out where Kubuntu is getting that firmware and downloaded it and extracted it in /lib/firmware on SuSE and the wireless card instantly worked. Maybe SuSE should look into something like that. So far the way I see other suse users getting their bcmxx wireless working on SuSE makes me feel sorry for them. If only they knew that all they had to do was download 1 file and stick it in their firmware folder they would be set and ready to go. I wish I could tell *EVERY* bcmxx suse user about this.
Do you really want your OS to overwrite your firmware without notifying/asking you? Are these firmware upgrades sophisticated enough that they won't break the device if you mulit-boot to a different OS??
Another thing is apt. Oh boy do I miss apt when working in SuSE. I know there's probably an equivilent for SuSE, like YUM or such, but I don't know how to use it as good as I do apt.
Isn't the difference really the difference in the way rpm works vs deb? I really am not experienced in deb at all so I can't fully comment here, but the two package management schemes are very different. Which one is better? Suse stuck with rpm. Jim F --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Jim, its just a troll, forget it. best regards Marcio On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:05 AM, Jim Flanagan <linuxjim@jjfiii.com> wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
So far getting my wireless on my laptop working with SuSE wasn't too hard,
but
kubuntu is 1 click. With SuSE all the how-to's I read everyone is still suggesting using ndiswrapper which involves cleaning up all the bcmxx stuff first then hunting down the drivers to use with ndiswrapper, installing ndiswrapper and finally configuring ndiswrapper, but with kubuntu it just downloads the firmware automatically and wireless works.
I experimented with this, I found out where Kubuntu is getting that firmware and downloaded it and extracted it in /lib/firmware on SuSE and the wireless card instantly worked. Maybe SuSE should look into something like that. So far the way I see other suse users getting their bcmxx wireless working on SuSE makes me feel sorry for them. If only they knew that all they had to do was download 1 file and stick it in their firmware folder they would be set and ready to go. I wish I could tell *EVERY* bcmxx suse user about this.
Do you really want your OS to overwrite your firmware without notifying/asking you? Are these firmware upgrades sophisticated enough that they won't break the device if you mulit-boot to a different OS??
Another thing is apt. Oh boy do I miss apt when working in SuSE. I know there's probably an equivilent for SuSE, like YUM or such, but I don't know how to use it as good as I do apt.
Isn't the difference really the difference in the way rpm works vs deb? I really am not experienced in deb at all so I can't fully comment here, but the two package management schemes are very different. Which one is better? Suse stuck with rpm.
Jim F
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participants (27)
-
Basher -
Basil Chupin -
Benji Weber -
Carlos E. R. -
Clayton -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Dave Plater -
Dirk Mueller -
Dominique Leuenberger -
Druid -
Felix Miata -
Jim Flanagan -
Kevin Dupuy -
Klaus Kaempf -
Marcus Meissner -
Michael Loeffler -
Michael Schroeder -
Oddball
-
Per Jessen -
Richard Creighton -
Roberto Mannai -
Sid Boyce -
Stanislav Visnovsky -
Stephan Kulow -
Sunny -
Volker Kuhlmann -
¡ElCheVive!