[opensuse-factory] zypp.conf: multiversion.kernels ...
... = latest-1,latest,running I don't get it. I had a Beta 1 system with 3 installed kernels. I did zypper dup to current factory, expecting when done to still have 3 installed kernels. Instead, all previous kernels disappeared, replaced by 3.1.0-2 only. What happened? I don't see any 12.1 bugs with multiversion in the subject, open or otherwise. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 8. November 2011, 23:34:58 schrieb Felix Miata:
... = latest-1,latest,running
I don't get it. I had a Beta 1 system with 3 installed kernels. I did zypper dup to current factory, expecting when done to still have 3 installed kernels. Instead, all previous kernels disappeared, replaced by 3.1.0-2 only. What happened? I don't see any 12.1 bugs with multiversion in the subject, open or otherwise. multiversion is for patches and updates. A distribution update will update to _that_ distribution, it's very different to a patch update
Greetings, Stephan -- Sent from openSUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2011/11/09 06:02 (GMT+0100) Stephan Kulow composed:
Felix Miata composed:
... = latest-1,latest,running
I don't get it. I had a Beta 1 system with 3 installed kernels. I did zypper dup to current factory, expecting when done to still have 3 installed kernels. Instead, all previous kernels disappeared, replaced by 3.1.0-2 only. What happened? I don't see any 12.1 bugs with multiversion in the subject, open or otherwise.
multiversion is for patches and updates. A distribution update will update to _that_ distribution, it's very different to a patch update
Your response seems totally orthogonal to the comments regarding the subject within zypp.conf. From reading them, it seems clear to me the purpose of using the setting is to prevent loss of X number of installed kernels. In my case it utterly failed to do that. Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) worked, so I guess I'll just to back to using that to ensure installing a new kernel doesn't leave me with an unbootable installation. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 09.11.2011 06:44, schrieb Felix Miata:
... = latest-1,latest,running
Felix, I am using this feature for quite some time now and it is working as it should. I have my systems configured to keep three kernels but the above line in my zypp.conf is a little different. During testing I found out, that it should should say: multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,running Maybe you can try this.
Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) worked, so I guess I'll just to back to using that to ensure installing a new kernel doesn't leave me with an unbootable installation.
Maybe I don not understand you correctly here but the above sentence to me is reading as if you were using the 'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,running' feature without having 'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)' uncommented in zypp.conf? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2011/11/09 05:31 (GMT-0500) Freigeist composed:
Felix Miata composed:
... = latest-1,latest,running
I am using this feature for quite some time now and it is working as it should. I have my systems configured to keep three kernels but the above line in my zypp.conf is a little different. During testing I found out, that it should should say:
multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,running
Maybe you can try this.
Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) worked, so I guess I'll just to back to using that to ensure installing a new kernel doesn't leave me with an unbootable installation.
Maybe I don not understand you correctly here but the above sentence to me is reading as if you were using the
'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,running'
feature without having
'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)'
uncommented in zypp.conf?
Could be this is the answer to the thread. I saw nothing to indicate multiversion.kernels was not an alternative to multiversion above it in zypp.conf, so I uncommented the newer/multiversion.kernels only. Even so, I don't understand the philosophy that by default it's OK to uninstall the running kernel before ensuring its replacement and/or replacement's initrd actually work. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 09.11.2011 11:45, schrieb Felix Miata:
On 2011/11/09 05:31 (GMT-0500) Freigeist composed:
Felix Miata composed:
... = latest-1,latest,running
I am using this feature for quite some time now and it is working as it should. I have my systems configured to keep three kernels but the above line in my zypp.conf is a little different. During testing I found out, that it should should say:
multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,running
Maybe you can try this.
Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) worked, so I guess I'll just to back to using that to ensure installing a new kernel doesn't leave me with an unbootable installation.
Maybe I don not understand you correctly here but the above sentence to me is reading as if you were using the
'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,running'
feature without having
'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)'
uncommented in zypp.conf?
Could be this is the answer to the thread. I saw nothing to indicate multiversion.kernels was not an alternative to multiversion above it in zypp.conf, so I uncommented the newer/multiversion.kernels only.
Both have to be uncommented, otherwise this feature will not work. This line 'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)' is giving you multiple kernels in the first place. This line 'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,running' is defining which kernels to keep. Without it uncommented the system would just be adding new kernels as long as the disk is full or you would have to delete them manually.
Even so, I don't understand the philosophy that by default it's OK to uninstall the running kernel before ensuring its replacement and/or replacement's initrd actually work.
AFAIK before this feature was introduced, when a new kernel was installed, the older one was removed before the machine got rebooted with the new kernel thus leaving you with the potenial threat of a non-working kernel. With this feature the old kernel gets deleted after the system has booted with the new kernel. You can read more about this here: http://lizards.opensuse.org/2011/07/14/improved-kernel-package-retention-in-... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2011-11-09 at 12:09 +0100, Freigeist wrote:
With this feature the old kernel gets deleted after the system has booted with the new kernel.
You can read more about this here:
http://lizards.opensuse.org/2011/07/14/improved-kernel-package-retention-in-...
I don't quite get it. It appears that the previous version is deleted after reboot. I would want to delete it only when another update comes, ie, always keep the current and previous versions installed. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk66ZAIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U4mACfT5MiNaQVcREun3uu+IptUd4J B/EAn0bXY7AR13Amhr495ttKDm3S0Fab =wOVx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 09.11.2011 12:29, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On Wednesday, 2011-11-09 at 12:09 +0100, Freigeist wrote:
With this feature the old kernel gets deleted after the system has booted with the new kernel.
You can read more about this here:
http://lizards.opensuse.org/2011/07/14/improved-kernel-package-retention-in-...
I don't quite get it. It appears that the previous version is deleted after reboot. I would want to delete it only when another update comes, ie, always keep the current and previous versions installed.
All you need to do is uncomment 'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)' and uncomment and change the 'multiversion.kernels' line as follows: 'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running' The latter will care for that two kernels are kept. I know it is a bit confusing when using multiversion.kernels at first but it becomes clearer if you read what Michal Marek wrote in lizards. He says that 'multiversion.kernels = latest,running' means "Keep the latest kernel and the running one if it differs." This means, that if you boot your newly installed kernel the running kernel _is_ the latest kernel. Hence the latest and the running kernel do not differ because they are actually the same. Meaning that if you always intend to boot a new kernel after it has been installed (and not an older one) and you want to keep additional kernels, for each kernel that you want to keep there must be an additional entry in the multiversion.kernels line: 'latest-1' if you want to keep the previous kernel you were running when downloading and installing the new one. 'latest-2' to also keep the kernel that is older than 'kernel-1', and so on. So if you would like to keep e.g. four kernels just change the multversion.kernels line to this: 'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,latest-3,running' Best Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2011-11-09 at 13:14 +0100, Freigeist wrote:
means
"Keep the latest kernel and the running one if it differs."
This means, that if you boot your newly installed kernel the running kernel _is_ the latest kernel. Hence the latest and the running kernel do not differ because they are actually the same.
Ok, thanks. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk67Fu8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XbSACeNQDiwXdsPRe2ZfNnQbUUHQ38 jIwAmQF0zXIj7jBW8LQzb1akGixWG4nS =8n4C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday, November 09, 2011 13:14:48 Freigeist wrote:
Am 09.11.2011 12:29, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On Wednesday, 2011-11-09 at 12:09 +0100, Freigeist wrote:
With this feature the old kernel gets deleted after the system has booted with the new kernel.
You can read more about this here:
http://lizards.opensuse.org/2011/07/14/improved-kernel-package-retenti on-in-12-1/> I don't quite get it. It appears that the previous version is deleted after reboot. I would want to delete it only when another update comes, ie, always keep the current and previous versions installed.
All you need to do is uncomment
'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)'
and uncomment and change the 'multiversion.kernels' line as follows:
'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running'
The latter will care for that two kernels are kept.
I know it is a bit confusing when using multiversion.kernels at first but it becomes clearer if you read what Michal Marek wrote in lizards.
He says that
'multiversion.kernels = latest,running'
means
"Keep the latest kernel and the running one if it differs."
This means, that if you boot your newly installed kernel the running kernel _is_ the latest kernel. Hence the latest and the running kernel do not differ because they are actually the same.
Meaning that if you always intend to boot a new kernel after it has been installed (and not an older one) and you want to keep additional kernels, for each kernel that you want to keep there must be an additional entry in the multiversion.kernels line:
'latest-1' if you want to keep the previous kernel you were running when downloading and installing the new one.
'latest-2' to also keep the kernel that is older than 'kernel-1', and so on.
So if you would like to keep e.g. four kernels just change the multversion.kernels line to this:
'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,latest-2,latest-3,running'
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot? I'm asking 'cuz this is nice to mention in the product highlights: http://en.opensuse.org/Product_highlights#Zypper Feel free to fix it :D Cheers, Jos
Best Regards,
Andreas
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot? I'm asking 'cuz this is nice The default while updating kernel packages is to put more and more on
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 01:23:12AM -0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote: [ 8< ] the system till no more space is available on /boot We have to consider to turn a reasonable default - keept the last known rtunning one and the new one - on with the next release. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 01:23:12AM -0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote: [ 8< ]
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot? I'm asking 'cuz this is nice The default while updating kernel packages is to put more and more on the system till no more space is available on /boot
We have to consider to turn a reasonable default - keept the last known rtunning one and the new one - on with the next release.
Lars Wish I had known that before I edited GRUB. I was like "why is it keeping that old Kernel? I told YaST to get rid of it!" But if
On Saturday, November 12, 2011 11:45:40 AM Lars Müller wrote: this is the new feature, why does it still leave the old kernel as the default in GRUB? -- In Riemann, Hilbert or in Banach space Let superscripts and subscripts go their ways. Our asymptotes no longer out of phase, We shall encounter, counting, face to face. -- Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2011-11-12 at 04:58 -0800, Roger Luedecke wrote:
Wish I had known that before I edited GRUB. I was like "why is it keeping that old Kernel? I told YaST to get rid of it!" But if this is the new feature, why does it still leave the old kernel as the default in GRUB?
It doesn't. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6+dhcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UUZACbBi8rOyZH5PYoWtwg7E1qCNVb hWIAoIxtU21U3JFRpv2lKp6B0uSuL6Ch =oF87 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/12/2011 11:45 AM, Lars Müller wrote:
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot? I'm asking 'cuz this is nice The default while updating kernel packages is to put more and more on
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 01:23:12AM -0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote: [ 8< ] the system till no more space is available on /boot
We have to consider to turn a reasonable default - keept the last known rtunning one and the new one - on with the next release.
Lars
We implemented this on SLE already. Keeping the last working kernel and removing old ones after the successful boot. The feature is controlled from zypp.conf: ## Comma separated list of kernel packages to keep installed in parallel, if the ## above multiversion variable is set. Packages can be specified as ## 2.6.32.12-0.7 - Exact version to keep ## latest - Keep kernel with the highest version number ## latest-N - Keep kernel with the Nth highest version number ## running - Keep the running kernel ## oldest - Keep kernel with the lowest version number (the GA kernel) ## oldest+N - Keep kernel with the Nth lowest version number ## ## Default: Do not delete any kernels if multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) is set # multiversion_kernels = latest,running However, the option is read from the kernel package itself, where the feature is implemented. I ignore if this was forward ported to Factory/12.1 already. Michael Marek can provide this information. Duncan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 01:35:28AM +0100, Duncan Mac-Vicar P. wrote:
On 11/12/2011 11:45 AM, Lars Müller wrote:
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot? I'm asking 'cuz this is nice The default while updating kernel packages is to put more and more on
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 01:23:12AM -0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote: [ 8< ] the system till no more space is available on /boot
We have to consider to turn a reasonable default - keept the last known rtunning one and the new one - on with the next release.
Lars
We implemented this on SLE already. Keeping the last working kernel and removing old ones after the successful boot.
And from the options in zypp.conf it looks like this is also present in openSUSE too. But it's not in use. With the default zypp.conf we still follow the old approach to replace the old kernel pieces as soon as the new kernel RPM gets installed. [ 8< ]
However, the option is read from the kernel package itself, where the feature is implemented.
I ignore if this was forward ported to Factory/12.1 already. Michael Marek can provide this information.
From the openSUSE 12.1 kernel it looks like this is included. At least we check if /boot/do_purge_kernels exists. postinstall scriptlet (using /bin/sh): # Flag to trigger /etc/init.d/purge-kernels on next reboot (fate#312018) touch /boot/do_purge_kernels While the purge-kernels service is active (chkconfig checked). Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 01:35:28AM +0100, Duncan Mac- Vicar P. wrote:
On 11/12/2011 11:45 AM, Lars Müller wrote:
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 01:23:12AM -0200, Jos Poortvliet wrote: [ 8< ]
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot? I'm asking 'cuz this is nice> > The default while updating kernel packages is to put more and more on the system till no more space is available on /boot
We have to consider to turn a reasonable default - keept the last known rtunning one and the new one - on with the next release.
Lars
We implemented this on SLE already. Keeping the last working kernel and removing old ones after the successful boot.
And from the options in zypp.conf it looks like this is also
openSUSE too.
But it's not in use. With the default zypp.conf we still follow the old approach to replace the old kernel pieces as soon as the new kernel RPM gets installed.
[ 8< ]
However, the option is read from the kernel package itself, where the feature is implemented.
I ignore if this was forward ported to Factory/12.1 already. Michael Marek can provide this information.
From the openSUSE 12.1 kernel it looks like this is included. At least we check if /boot/do_purge_kernels exists.
postinstall scriptlet (using /bin/sh): # Flag to trigger /etc/init.d/purge-kernels on next reboot (fate#312018) touch /boot/do_purge_kernels
While the purge-kernels service is active (chkconfig checked).
Lars So, can we enable it for the final? -- A putt that stops close enough to the cup to inspire such comments as "you could blow it in" may be blown in. This rule does not apply if
On Sunday, November 13, 2011 03:24:02 PM Lars Müller wrote: present in the ball is more than three inches from the hole, because no one wants to make a travesty of the game. -- Donald A. Metz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 08:09:14AM -0800, Roger Luedecke wrote: [ 8< ]
So, can we enable it for the final?
Yes. But you have to ensure to follow the advice from http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2011-11/msg00586.html @Roger: Your quoting somehow is strange. The lines are getting wrapped in a way to make it hard to consider what's quoted from which person. It looks as soon as a line hits a length limit words are getting wrapped. You can see this in the archive in your recent posting too. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Am 12.11.2011 04:23, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot?
I first had to try it on a fresh standard installation I had not tempered with because I did not know it anymore. The default is, to remove an old kernel right after the new one was installed and _before_ the new kernel is booted. This is so, because by default the two lines in zypp.conf enabling a safer handling of new kernels, are commented out. I agree with Lars that it would be a very good idea to adopt a new default setting to make the system safer. Under the assumption that most (if not all) users are going to boot a new kernel and not an older one after a new one has beeen installed, I would suggest to keep the running (new) kernel and its predecessor as new default setting. This way even an unexperienced or new user, who doesn't know anything about openSUSE but to switch on his machine and starting the applications he wishes to work with, would be able to go back to an older working kernel if the need arises. All that would be required to do so would be to press the "arrow down" key twice in GRUB. Therefor it would be required to have the 'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)' 'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running' lines in zypp.conf uncommented by default and have the multiversion.kernels line changed to the one above by default. Best Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 03:58:12PM +0100, Freigeist wrote:
Am 12.11.2011 04:23, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot?
I first had to try it on a fresh standard installation I had not tempered with because I did not know it anymore.
The default is, to remove an old kernel right after the new one was installed and _before_ the new kernel is booted.
Yes, sorry, I messed this up in my last mail. I'm this used to modify/ enable the multiversion feature in zypp.conf. :/
This is so, because by default the two lines in zypp.conf enabling a safer handling of new kernels, are commented out.
I agree with Lars that it would be a very good idea to adopt a new default setting to make the system safer.
Under the assumption that most (if not all) users are going to boot a new kernel and not an older one after a new one has beeen installed, I would suggest to keep the running (new) kernel and its predecessor as new default setting.
This way even an unexperienced or new user, who doesn't know anything about openSUSE but to switch on his machine and starting the applications he wishes to work with, would be able to go back to an older working kernel if the need arises. All that would be required to do so would be to press the "arrow down" key twice in GRUB.
Therefor it would be required to have the
'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)'
'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running'
lines in zypp.conf uncommented by default and have the multiversion.kernels line changed to the one above by default.
Full ack. If we like to make it like real cool operating systems are doing it (like Microsoft Windows ;)) we would even hide the last and the save moder kernel being displayed to the user when the grub menu gets presented. We should only display them if the last boot process somehow failed. As soon as the /boot/ filesystem is writeable we could create a file which gets removed on shutdown. As soon as this file is still present on the next boot we know something failed and then we have several opportunities: a) boot the reviously known running kernel disadvantage: the user might miss the issue b) stay in the grub menu disadvantage: this might be sucking for systems managed remotly As this might depend on the systems use case it might be best to make it configureable. My goal is to hide in the graphical - and only there - menu as much as possible irritating from the user. Some of you might ask what's irritating by some additional lines? Have you ever tried to let your parents, grand parents, brother, etc. use a Linux system? Each simple and even small chnage - like the welcome message of Firefox after an upgrade let them think something is broken or they messed something up. The less visual changes noticeable the more userfriendly as system might be seen. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 03:58:12PM +0100, Freigeist wrote:
Am 12.11.2011 04:23, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot?
I first had to try it on a fresh standard installation I had not tempered with because I did not know it anymore.
The default is, to remove an old kernel right after the new one was installed and _before_ the new kernel is booted.
Yes, sorry, I messed this up in my last mail. I'm this used to modify/ enable the multiversion feature in zypp.conf. :/
This is so, because by default the two lines in zypp.conf enabling a safer handling of new kernels, are commented out.
I agree with Lars that it would be a very good idea to adopt a new default setting to make the system safer.
Under the assumption that most (if not all) users are going to boot a new kernel and not an older one after a new one has beeen installed, I would suggest to keep the running (new) kernel and its
new default setting.
This way even an unexperienced or new user, who doesn't know anything about openSUSE but to switch on his machine and starting the applications he wishes to work with, would be able to go back to an older working kernel if the need arises. All that would be required to do so would be to press the "arrow down" key twice in GRUB.
Therefor it would be required to have the
'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)'
'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running'
lines in zypp.conf uncommented by default and have the multiversion.kernels line changed to the one above by default.
Full ack.
If we like to make it like real cool operating systems are doing it (like Microsoft Windows ;)) we would even hide the last and
moder kernel being displayed to the user when the grub
presented. We should only display them if the last boot
failed.
As soon as the /boot/ filesystem is writeable we could create a file which gets removed on shutdown. As soon as this file is still
on the next boot we know something failed and then we have several opportunities:
a) boot the reviously known running kernel disadvantage: the user might miss the issue
b) stay in the grub menu disadvantage: this might be sucking for systems managed remotly
As this might depend on the systems use case it might be best to make it configureable.
My goal is to hide in the graphical - and only there - menu as much as possible irritating from the user.
Some of you might ask what's irritating by some additional
On Saturday, November 12, 2011 04:29:21 PM Lars Müller wrote: predecessor as the save menu gets process somehow present lines?
Have you ever tried to let your parents, grand parents,
use a Linux system? Each simple and even small chnage -
welcome message of Firefox after an upgrade let them think something is broken or they messed something up.
The less visual changes noticeable the more userfriendly as system might be seen.
Lars I rather like that idea actually. Though not necessary for me, I can see the advantage for the user. The new multikernel
brother, etc. like the thingamajig is a fantastic idea as well. -- Murphy's Law of Research: Enough research will tend to support your theory. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 12.11.2011 18:38, schrieb Roger Luedecke:
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 03:58:12PM +0100, Freigeist wrote:
Am 12.11.2011 04:23, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot?
I first had to try it on a fresh standard installation I had not tempered with because I did not know it anymore.
The default is, to remove an old kernel right after the new one was installed and _before_ the new kernel is booted.
Yes, sorry, I messed this up in my last mail. I'm this used to modify/ enable the multiversion feature in zypp.conf. :/
This is so, because by default the two lines in zypp.conf enabling a safer handling of new kernels, are commented out.
I agree with Lars that it would be a very good idea to adopt a new default setting to make the system safer.
Under the assumption that most (if not all) users are going to boot a new kernel and not an older one after a new one has beeen installed, I would suggest to keep the running (new) kernel and its
new default setting.
This way even an unexperienced or new user, who doesn't know anything about openSUSE but to switch on his machine and starting the applications he wishes to work with, would be able to go back to an older working kernel if the need arises. All that would be required to do so would be to press the "arrow down" key twice in GRUB.
Therefor it would be required to have the
'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)'
'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running'
lines in zypp.conf uncommented by default and have the multiversion.kernels line changed to the one above by default.
Full ack.
If we like to make it like real cool operating systems are doing it (like Microsoft Windows ;)) we would even hide the last and
moder kernel being displayed to the user when the grub
presented. We should only display them if the last boot
failed.
As soon as the /boot/ filesystem is writeable we could create a file which gets removed on shutdown. As soon as this file is still
on the next boot we know something failed and then we have several opportunities:
a) boot the reviously known running kernel disadvantage: the user might miss the issue
b) stay in the grub menu disadvantage: this might be sucking for systems managed remotly
As this might depend on the systems use case it might be best to make it configureable.
My goal is to hide in the graphical - and only there - menu as much as possible irritating from the user.
Some of you might ask what's irritating by some additional
On Saturday, November 12, 2011 04:29:21 PM Lars Müller wrote: predecessor as the save menu gets process somehow present lines?
Have you ever tried to let your parents, grand parents,
use a Linux system? Each simple and even small chnage -
welcome message of Firefox after an upgrade let them think something is broken or they messed something up.
The less visual changes noticeable the more userfriendly as system might be seen.
Lars I rather like that idea actually. Though not necessary for me, I can see the advantage for the user. The new multikernel
brother, etc. like the thingamajig is a fantastic idea as well.
I like it, too. Let's see what Michal Marek can tell us about it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday, November 12, 2011 16:29:21 Lars Müller wrote:
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 03:58:12PM +0100, Freigeist wrote:
Am 12.11.2011 04:23, schrieb Jos Poortvliet:
May I ask what the default is? Does openSUSE by default remove your kernel right away or does it keep it until after reboot?
I first had to try it on a fresh standard installation I had not tempered with because I did not know it anymore.
The default is, to remove an old kernel right after the new one was installed and _before_ the new kernel is booted.
Yes, sorry, I messed this up in my last mail. I'm this used to modify/ enable the multiversion feature in zypp.conf. :/
This is so, because by default the two lines in zypp.conf enabling a safer handling of new kernels, are commented out.
I agree with Lars that it would be a very good idea to adopt a new default setting to make the system safer.
Under the assumption that most (if not all) users are going to boot a new kernel and not an older one after a new one has beeen installed, I would suggest to keep the running (new) kernel and its predecessor as new default setting.
This way even an unexperienced or new user, who doesn't know anything about openSUSE but to switch on his machine and starting the applications he wishes to work with, would be able to go back to an older working kernel if the need arises. All that would be required to do so would be to press the "arrow down" key twice in GRUB.
Therefor it would be required to have the
'Multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)'
'multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running'
lines in zypp.conf uncommented by default and have the multiversion.kernels line changed to the one above by default.
Full ack.
If we like to make it like real cool operating systems are doing it (like Microsoft Windows ;)) we would even hide the last and the save moder kernel being displayed to the user when the grub menu gets presented. We should only display them if the last boot process somehow failed.
As soon as the /boot/ filesystem is writeable we could create a file which gets removed on shutdown. As soon as this file is still present on the next boot we know something failed and then we have several opportunities:
a) boot the reviously known running kernel disadvantage: the user might miss the issue
b) stay in the grub menu disadvantage: this might be sucking for systems managed remotly
As this might depend on the systems use case it might be best to make it configureable.
My goal is to hide in the graphical - and only there - menu as much as possible irritating from the user.
Some of you might ask what's irritating by some additional lines?
Have you ever tried to let your parents, grand parents, brother, etc. use a Linux system? Each simple and even small chnage - like the welcome message of Firefox after an upgrade let them think something is broken or they messed something up.
The less visual changes noticeable the more userfriendly as system might be seen.
Lars
Ok, but that'll all be for 12.2. I will adjust the text accordingly - this is currently an optional thing and is 'considered for 12.2'. Thanks all! PS and yes, you need to tell us/me about these features - they should be mentioned but I can't smell their existence - just yet. Working on my smell, though... :D
On Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:34:58 PM Felix Miata wrote:
... = latest-1,latest,running
I don't get it. I had a Beta 1 system with 3 installed kernels. I did zypper dup to current factory, expecting when done to still have 3 installed kernels. Instead, all previous kernels disappeared, replaced by 3.1.0-2 only. What happened? I don't see any 12.1 bugs with multiversion in the subject, open or otherwise. Maybe it isn't recognizing the flavors as separate. -- The Official MBA Handbook on business cards: Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the Realm, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India" or "Director of Corporate Planning."
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participants (9)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Duncan Mac-Vicar P. -
Felix Miata -
Freigeist -
Jos Poortvliet -
Lars Müller -
Roger Luedecke -
Stephan Kulow