[opensuse-factory] Systemd experiences (was How to enable systemd at installation time)
I have now enabled systemd more or less successfully in an M5 running in VBox. Some things and probs that I have ran into: This installation runs in Oracle VBox and I'm used to run also their guest additions. So normally always after a kernel installation I run a script of theirs, 'VBoxLinuxAdditions.run' which has always worked. It did now, but not when booted with (F5) systemd. I booted the default way then and this script did its job normally. A reboot with systemd and I was in business :) There have been some persistent errors in '/var/log/messages' though: Sep 3 11:08:44 121 SuSEfirewall2: Setting up rules from /etc/sysconfig/SuSEfirewall2 ... Sep 3 11:08:47 121 SuSEfirewall2: Error: iptables-batch failed, re-running using iptables Sep 3 11:08:48 121 SuSEfirewall2: Error: ip6tables-batch failed, re-running using ip6tables Sep 3 11:08:50 121 SuSEfirewall2: Firewall rules successfully set The above and some others appears frequently: Sep 2 12:03:48 a88-112-25-185 gnomesu-pam-backend: pam_systemd(gnomesu-pam:session): Failed to create session: Invalid argument Sep 3 11:41:09 121 sudo: pam_systemd(sudo:session): Failed to parse message: Message has only 3 arguments, but more were expected Sep 3 11:10:11 121 systemd[1]: Unit NetworkManager.service entered failed state. Sep 3 11:10:11 121 systemd[1]: Unit dev-sda1.swap entered failed state. Sep 3 11:10:11 121 systemd[1]: Job remote-fs.target/start failed with result 'dependency'. Sep 3 11:10:11 121 systemd[1]: Unit data5.mount entered failed state. Sep 3 11:10:14 121 systemd[1]: Unit home-mcman-waxborg_home.mount entered failed state. Sep 3 11:10:14 121 systemd[1]: Unit data1.mount entered failed state. Sep 3 11:10:14 121 systemd[1]: Unit data75.mount entered failed state. Sep 3 11:11:40 121 systemd[1]: Unit NetworkManager.service entered failed state. Sep 3 11:11:40 121 systemd[1]: Unit dev-sda1.swap entered failed state. Sep 3 11:11:41 121 systemd[1]: Unit data1.mount entered failed state. Sep 3 11:11:41 121 systemd[1]: Unit nfs.service entered failed state. Then I thought I'd boot the default way to see how everything goes. The NFS client lost all shares. # mount -a Starting rpc.statd ... portmapper not running failed mount.nfs: rpc.statd is not running but is required for remote locking. mount.nfs: Either use '-o nolock' to keep locks local, or start statd. mount.nfs: an incorrect mount option was specified Starting rpc.statd ... portmapper not running failed mount.nfs: rpc.statd is not running but is required for remote locking. mount.nfs: Either use '-o nolock' to keep locks local, or start statd. mount.nfs: an incorrect mount option was specified Starting rpc.statd ... portmapper not running failed mount.nfs: rpc.statd is not running but is required for remote locking. mount.nfs: Either use '-o nolock' to keep locks local, or start statd. mount.nfs: an incorrect mount option was specified And tens of other stuff. I guess I'll revert to snapshot before systemd and wait for a while. This is interesting and I'm interested in testing but I guess I would need to know what exctly is meant to be achieved with systemd. It must be good, why otherwise would it be pushed, but my skills ran out, sorry for that. Vahis -- http://waxborg.servepics.com openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.8-default "Evergreen" main host openSUSE 12.1 Milestone 5 (x86_64) 3.0.0-4-desktop in VirtualBox openSUSE 11.4 (i586) 3.0.4-43-desktop "Tumbleweed" in EeePC 900 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03.09.2011 12:05, Vahis wrote:
The NFS client lost all shares.
# mount -a Starting rpc.statd ... portmapper not running failed mount.nfs: Either use '-o nolock' to keep locks local, or start statd.
I was able to get NFS client running by YaST > System > Runlevel I started statd there. It didn't want to first but then it added something and started running. Now NFS client works (the mounts are in fstab as the 'mount -a' reveals.
And tens of other stuff.
Systemctl shows 117 active units. Systemctl --failed lists these: UNIT LOAD ACTIVE SUB JOB DESCRIPTION NetworkManager.service loaded failed failed Network Manager dev-sda1.swap loaded failed failed /dev/sda1 These are apparently ones that been tried to run but they fail. I don't see why NetworkManager should be started at all though. OTOH swap seems to work according to top. There are tens more, some I know by name like apparmor.service error inactive dead apparmor.service I've never known that I would have needed it anyway. I'm wondering how to make systemd happy about these. Vahis -- http://waxborg.servepics.com openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.8-default "Evergreen" main host openSUSE 12.1 Milestone 5 (x86_64) 3.0.0-4-desktop in VirtualBox openSUSE 11.4 (i586) 3.0.4-43-desktop "Tumbleweed" in EeePC 900 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le samedi 03 septembre 2011 à 13:43 +0300, Vahis a écrit :
On 03.09.2011 12:05, Vahis wrote:
The NFS client lost all shares.
# mount -a Starting rpc.statd ... portmapper not running failed mount.nfs: Either use '-o nolock' to keep locks local, or start statd.
I was able to get NFS client running by YaST > System > Runlevel
I started statd there. It didn't want to first but then it added something and started running. Now NFS client works (the mounts are in fstab as the 'mount -a' reveals.
Please open a bug report for this.
And tens of other stuff.
Systemctl shows 117 active units.
Systemctl --failed lists these:
UNIT LOAD ACTIVE SUB JOB DESCRIPTION NetworkManager.service loaded failed failed Network Manager dev-sda1.swap loaded failed failed /dev/sda1
These are apparently ones that been tried to run but they fail. I don't see why NetworkManager should be started at all though.
Because we don't know if NM should be started or not : the configuration is part of another file (/etc/sysconfig/network/config, NETWORKMANAGER file). So, NM service is always "enabled" but there is a precondition which checks for /etc/sysconfig/network/config and cause the service to fail if set to NO).
OTOH swap seems to work according to top.
swapon -s is better to check that. Give also systemctl status dev-sda1.swap output.
There are tens more, some I know by name like
apparmor.service error inactive dead apparmor.service
I've never known that I would have needed it anyway.
inactive = not enabled dead = not running Check the status to get more info. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/05/2011 11:34 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le samedi 03 septembre 2011 à 13:43 +0300, Vahis a écrit :
On 03.09.2011 12:05, Vahis wrote:
Please open a bug report for this.
I see that a related report has been already made. Maybe I should add my findings there. I made another VBox, NET install, LXDE. I zypper dupped it this morning and tweaked it it some, to a basic functioning state. Booted conventionally it works like a champ. Now, with systemd (F5 at boot), I get this: systemctl status nfs.service nfs.service - LSB: NFS client services Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/nfs) Active: failed since Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:09:41 +0300; 27min ago Process: 5709 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/nfs start (code=exited, status=1/FAILURE) CGroup: name=systemd:/system/nfs.service ├ 3031 /usr/sbin/rpc.idmapd └ 3079 /usr/sbin/rpc.statd --no-notify Still the NFS shares are operational.
OTOH swap seems to work according to top.
swapon -s is better to check that.
swapon -s Filename Type Size Used Priority /dev/sda1 partition 2103292 462156 0
Give also systemctl status dev-sda1.swap output.
systemctl status dev-sda1.swap dev-sda1.swap - /dev/sda1 Loaded: loaded Active: failed since Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:04:54 +0300; 26min ago What: /dev/sda1 Process: 4179 ExecActivate=/sbin/swapon /dev/sda1 (code=exited, status=255) CGroup: name=systemd:/system/dev-sda1.swap
apparmor.service error inactive dead apparmor.service
I've never known that I would have needed it anyway.
Check the status to get more info.
My bad, not installed. I stopped installing it a while back, some samba stuff then. Maybe I should put it back to duty for these tests. Vahis -- http://waxborg.servepics.com openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.8-default "Evergreen" main host openSUSE 12.1 Milestone 5 (x86_64) 3.0.0-4-desktop openSUSE 11.4 (i586) 3.0.4-43-desktop "Tumbleweed" in EeePC 900 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le lundi 05 septembre 2011 à 12:47 +0300, Vahis a écrit :
On 09/05/2011 11:34 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le samedi 03 septembre 2011 à 13:43 +0300, Vahis a écrit :
On 03.09.2011 12:05, Vahis wrote:
Please open a bug report for this.
I see that a related report has been already made. Maybe I should add my findings there.
I made another VBox, NET install, LXDE. I zypper dupped it this morning and tweaked it it some, to a basic functioning state.
Booted conventionally it works like a champ.
Now, with systemd (F5 at boot), I get this:
systemctl status nfs.service nfs.service - LSB: NFS client services Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/nfs) Active: failed since Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:09:41 +0300; 27min ago Process: 5709 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/nfs start (code=exited, status=1/FAILURE) CGroup: name=systemd:/system/nfs.service ├ 3031 /usr/sbin/rpc.idmapd └ 3079 /usr/sbin/rpc.statd --no-notify
Still the NFS shares are operational.
Let's follow this on https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=715926
OTOH swap seems to work according to top.
swapon -s is better to check that.
swapon -s Filename Type Size Used Priority /dev/sda1 partition 2103292 462156 0
Give also systemctl status dev-sda1.swap output.
systemctl status dev-sda1.swap dev-sda1.swap - /dev/sda1 Loaded: loaded Active: failed since Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:04:54 +0300; 26min ago What: /dev/sda1 Process: 4179 ExecActivate=/sbin/swapon /dev/sda1 (code=exited, status=255) CGroup: name=systemd:/system/dev-sda1.swap
So, it was correctly enabled at one time during boot, probably by something else. Could you open a bug report and attach dmesg output after booting with "systemd.log_target=kmsg systemd.log_level=debug" ? -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/05/2011 01:16 PM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le lundi 05 septembre 2011 à 12:47 +0300, Vahis a écrit :
On 09/05/2011 11:34 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le samedi 03 septembre 2011 à 13:43 +0300, Vahis a écrit :
On 03.09.2011 12:05, Vahis wrote:
Please open a bug report for this.
I see that a related report has been already made. Maybe I should add my findings there.
OTOH swap seems to work according to top.
swapon -s is better to check that.
swapon -s Filename Type Size Used Priority /dev/sda1 partition 2103292 462156 0
Give also systemctl status dev-sda1.swap output.
systemctl status dev-sda1.swap dev-sda1.swap - /dev/sda1 Loaded: loaded Active: failed since Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:04:54 +0300; 26min ago What: /dev/sda1 Process: 4179 ExecActivate=/sbin/swapon /dev/sda1 (code=exited, status=255) CGroup: name=systemd:/system/dev-sda1.swap
So, it was correctly enabled at one time during boot, probably by something else.
Could you open a bug report and attach dmesg output after booting with "systemd.log_target=kmsg systemd.log_level=debug" ?
Bug 715965 Submitted Vahis -- http://waxborg.servepics.com openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.8-default "Evergreen" main host openSUSE 12.1 Milestone 5 (x86_64) 3.0.0-4-desktop openSUSE 11.4 (i586) 3.0.4-43-desktop "Tumbleweed" in EeePC 900 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello, I have some questions about KDE-LiveCD's The numbering shows [1] Questions -Which project builds the KDE-LiveCD's [link please] -Whats causing it to fail as their is a time difference when the last KDE-LiveCD was created -Whats causing the kde live cd creation failures Thanks Glenn [1] http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/ openSUSE-KDE-LiveCD-x86_64-Build0250-Media.iso 01-Sep-2011 openSUSE-GNOME-LiveCD-i686-Build0258-Media.iso 04-Sep-2011 openSUSE-NET-x86_64-Build0259-Media.iso 05-Sep-2011 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 5. September 2011 schrieb doiggl@velocitynet.com.au:
Hello, I have some questions about KDE-LiveCD's
The numbering shows [1] Questions -Which project builds the KDE-LiveCD's [link please] -Whats causing it to fail as their is a time difference when the last KDE-LiveCD was created -Whats causing the kde live cd creation failures
You can monitor it yourself: https://build.opensuse.org/stage/project/monitor?project=openSUSE%3AFactory%... If you click the "last time results", you will see a "failed" for kde- profiled-live-cd because: + size=747634688 + test 747634688 -gt 734003200 + echo 'TOO LARGE' TOO LARGE I removed several huge GNOME libraries this morning, hoping to get it back online. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 16:12:44 +0200, Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.de> wrote: > Am Montag, 5. September 2011 schrieb doiggl@velocitynet.com.au: >> Hello, >> I have some questions about KDE-LiveCD's >> >> The numbering shows [1] >> Questions >> -Which project builds the KDE-LiveCD's [link please] >> -Whats causing it to fail as their is a time difference when the last >> KDE-LiveCD was created >> -Whats causing the kde live cd creation failures > > You can monitor it yourself: > > https://build.opensuse.org/stage/project/monitor?project=openSUSE%3AFactory%3ALive > > If you click the "last time results", you will see a "failed" for kde- > profiled-live-cd because: > > + size=747634688 > + test 747634688 -gt 734003200 > + echo 'TOO LARGE' > TOO LARGE > > I removed several huge GNOME libraries this morning, hoping to get it back > online. > > Greetings, Stephan Hello, I wonder if it would be useful to list the in the output log , before the size test, the following: - Rpms sorted by name - Rpms sorted by size Cheers Glenn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 5. September 2011 schrieb doiggl@velocitynet.com.au:
I wonder if it would be useful to list the in the output log , before the size test, the following: - Rpms sorted by name - Rpms sorted by size
The size check is done when there are no rpms left. The rpms sorted by name are part of the package-lists git repo and the sizes are easily found out from factory repo. So it's not really useful. I now reduced the list of locales even further to free room - but I'm not really happy about it ;( Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 09:12, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
factory repo. So it's not really useful. I now reduced the list of locales even further to free room - but I'm not really happy about it ;(
reducing locales is a very bad idea. I don't think we have still many cd only readers on the wild, the problem is more to have dvd or usb device (with odd real size) so may be we could have different limit: for example 1Gb for small usb flash card? I think we could even completely drop the "cd/dvd" reference (not the fact that the image is usable as dvd), for example use 1gb (in fact 900Mb), 2Gb (1900Mb?), 4Gb (3800Mb?) as limits. 4 Gb being the "dvd" one. Like this we could go upper, 8Gb usb device are common nowaday. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 6. September 2011 schrieb jdd:
Le 06/09/2011 09:12, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
factory repo. So it's not really useful. I now reduced the list of locales even further to free room - but I'm not really happy about it ;(
reducing locales is a very bad idea. I don't think we have still many cd only readers on the wild, the problem is more to have dvd or usb device (with odd real size)
so may be we could have different limit: for example 1Gb for small usb flash card? I don't think that people prefer the CD image because they of the hardware, but because of the download size.
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 10:13, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
I don't think that people prefer the CD image because they of the hardware, but because of the download size.
if so, some megabytes wont make any difference.sb device are rewitable, so this make them more suited. The only problem they have now is to be extremely slow, don't know if there is a solution jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le mardi 06 septembre 2011 à 10:25 +0200, jdd a écrit :
Le 06/09/2011 10:13, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
I don't think that people prefer the CD image because they of the hardware, but because of the download size.
if so, some megabytes wont make any difference.sb device are rewitable, so this make them more suited.
The only problem they have now is to be extremely slow, don't know if there is a solution
There will be for countries where bandwith is very low (Africa, for instance, where CD are much more welcome for distro release than DVD). -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 10:32, Frederic Crozat a écrit :
There will be for countries where bandwith is very low (Africa, for instance, where CD are much more welcome for distro release than DVD).
yes, but 900Mb images versus 700Mb is not that much and writing a usb flash card is much cheaper than writing a cd jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:48:36 +0200 schrieb jdd <jdd@dodin.org>:
yes, but 900Mb images versus 700Mb is not that much and writing a usb flash card is much cheaper than writing a cd
Only if you have hardware new enough so that it will boot from USB. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 14:42, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
Am Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:48:36 +0200 schrieb jdd<jdd@dodin.org>:
yes, but 900Mb images versus 700Mb is not that much and writing a usb flash card is much cheaper than writing a cd
Only if you have hardware new enough so that it will boot from USB.
usb boot is now 7 or 8 years old, older hardware anyway don't run openSUSE. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 07:22:14 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 14:42, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
Am Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:48:36 +0200
schrieb jdd<jdd@dodin.org>:
yes, but 900Mb images versus 700Mb is not that much and writing a usb flash card is much cheaper than writing a cd
Only if you have hardware new enough so that it will boot from USB.
usb boot is now 7 or 8 years old, older hardware anyway don't run openSUSE.
jdd That is where you are wrong. I have a tower that was new in early `02. It runs openSUSE with KDE. It seems to not know that it is old hardware at all. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:22:14 +0200 schrieb jdd <jdd@dodin.org>:
Le 06/09/2011 14:42, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
Am Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:48:36 +0200 schrieb jdd<jdd@dodin.org>:
Only if you have hardware new enough so that it will boot from USB.
usb boot is now 7 or 8 years old, older hardware anyway don't run openSUSE.
opensSUSE runs very well on a Toughbook CF-51 MK1 (Centrino 1, 1GB RAM, ...) However, this machine does refuse to boot from USB (probably an artificial BIOS limitation). There are valid reasons to state "this hardware is too old and not longer supportable with reasonable effort". However, those should be judged thoroughly and not applied lightly. Always consider that there are users that cannot just buy a new computer in a store around the corner. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 16:48, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
usb boot is now 7 or 8 years old, older hardware anyway don't run openSUSE.
opensSUSE runs very well on a Toughbook CF-51 MK1 (Centrino 1, 1GB RAM, ...)
I have a server running debian for 11 years, now, it have the standard amount of ram of the time: 128Mb. In these days, 1Gb was extremely expensive and if we speak of people with no money... I presently have a lot of 5 years old computer to give for free. They are PIV, sata drives, but only 512Mo ram. I *do* give them with 11.4. but they also boot very well on usb (including kde). Using kde (we speak of kde live?) of a "smaller" machine don't seems very friendly
However, this machine does refuse to boot from USB (probably an artificial BIOS limitation).
There are valid reasons to state "this hardware is too old and not longer supportable with reasonable effort". However, those should be judged thoroughly and not applied lightly. Always consider that there are users that cannot just buy a new computer in a store around the corner.
sure, I am on this side. We have to keep usable versions. But if it's to use english only stripped down kde, what interest? I cry not having digikam on the live cd!! I wont say the same for xfce or lxde cd jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 6. September 2011 schrieb jdd:
Le 06/09/2011 10:13, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
I don't think that people prefer the CD image because they of the hardware, but because of the download size.
if so, some megabytes wont make any difference.sb device are rewitable, so this make them more suited.
The only problem they have now is to be extremely slow, don't know if there is a solution What is extremely slow? CDs?
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 6. September 2011 schrieb jdd:
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd Factory or 11.4?
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
As rough as the 11.4 release was with the discrepancies between DVD and CD, I would support dumping the DVD image entirely in favor of focusing the resources on the LiveCD. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 06.09.2011 16:28, schrieb Roger Luedecke:
As rough as the 11.4 release was with the discrepancies between DVD and CD, I would support dumping the DVD image entirely in favor of focusing the resources on the LiveCD.
Why? I normally install from DVD because there are more software patterns and more languages to choose. I would suggest to keep both the CD and DVD. -- -o) Kim Leyendecker /\\ openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE _\_v http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:47:06 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd
jdd That is beyond bizaare. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 16:26, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:47:06 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd
jdd That is beyond bizaare.
don't you have such problem? If so may be this is worth investigating (bugzilla)? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 07:30:41 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 16:26, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:47:06 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd
jdd
That is beyond bizaare.
don't you have such problem? If so may be this is worth investigating (bugzilla)?
jdd No, for me it is quite the opposite. USB boot is obscenely fast. I also see it is fast for everybody else. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 6. September 2011 schrieb Roger Luedecke:
No, for me it is quite the opposite. USB boot is obscenely fast. I also see it is fast for everybody else.
It would be very strange if it was slower than CD. Nothing seeks as slow as a CD. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 16:36, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
No, for me it is quite the opposite. USB boot is obscenely fast. I also see it is fast for everybody else.
in fact you are true. I got my initial opinion booting from susestudio usb image. I just tryed the kde4 one and I have to admit the usb boot is extremely fast. Very good day when you learn something :-) thanks -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 07:58:54 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 16:36, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
No, for me it is quite the opposite. USB boot is obscenely fast. I also see it is fast for everybody else.
in fact you are true.
I got my initial opinion booting from susestudio usb image. I just tryed the kde4 one and I have to admit the usb boot is extremely fast. Very good day when you learn something :-)
thanks O! Haha. Very good. With systemd, live booting is much faster. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 10:00:44 AM Roger Luedecke wrote:
With systemd, live booting is much faster.
To use your words, it obscenely fast. Actually I have installed Live CD iso KDE, as VBox instance and I can't believe how fast it is. First time system was booted before I was ready to check messages. Second and any after, I still can't believe my eyes. If GUI/Xorg/desktop guys will do something similar to what system guys did, booting would be very close to instantaneous. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 16:30 +0200, jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 16:26, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:47:06 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd
jdd That is beyond bizaare.
don't you have such problem? If so may be this is worth investigating (bugzilla)?
Sounds like USB-1.0 or worse. I've seen the same, on an older machine that have a mix of USB1 and USB2 ports. Specially when drawing to much milli-amps on one of these ports, you get "funny" results... hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Tue, 6 Sep 2011 07:26:52 -0700 schrieb Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com>:
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:47:06 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd
jdd That is beyond bizaare.
No, it's not. USB "drives" are very often dog slow when it comes to writing. Running a Live USB stick mounts the free space on the stick RW and writes there. A live CD writes only to ramfs, which is very fast. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 06.09.2011 17:52, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am Tue, 6 Sep 2011 07:26:52 -0700 schrieb Roger Luedecke<roger.luedecke@gmail.com>:
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:47:06 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd
jdd That is beyond bizaare.
No, it's not. USB "drives" are very often dog slow when it comes to writing. Running a Live USB stick mounts the free space on the stick RW and writes there.
A live CD writes only to ramfs, which is very fast.
I have made a feature request to openfate long ago where I suggested to make a live image that boots from USB and even totally toram as an option. I did not get much support I guess. In hopes that someone would have become interested, vote: https://features.opensuse.org/311011 I'm still very much in favor of it, I'd make it myself, but I haven't got the skills to do that. It could be for example equipped with LXDE and possibility to download more software as needed and within space on the stick. Of course it also has an installer in it. DamnSmallLinux works that way and It is _lightning_ fast on a machine with 128 MB RAM and a 300 MHz proc. Vahis -- http://waxborg.servepics.com openSUSE 11.2 (x86_64) 2.6.31.14-0.8-default "Evergreen" main host openSUSE 12.1 Milestone 5 (x86_64) 3.0.0-4-desktop openSUSE 11.4 (i586) 3.0.4-43-desktop "Tumbleweed" in EeePC 900 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:47:06 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 10:34, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
What is extremely slow? CDs?
no, live usb. On my computer, the same image is much slower from usb flash card than from real cd
jdd That is beyond bizaare.
Not really, especially if the difference is in writing the image as opposed to booting from it. CDs vary in speed based on price, but even modern cheap CD drives have good read and write speeds. Thumb drives have a huge variation in performance. Low cost ones can be very, very slow to write. And merely very slow to read. So my impression is JDD is using very low performance thumb drives. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:25:56 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 10:13, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
I don't think that people prefer the CD image because they of the hardware, but because of the download size.
if so, some megabytes wont make any difference.sb device are rewitable, so this make them more suited.
The only problem they have now is to be extremely slow, don't know if there is a solution
jdd Live CD with systemd is vastly faster. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:04:30 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 09:12, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
factory repo. So it's not really useful. I now reduced the list of locales even further to free room - but I'm not really happy about it ;(
reducing locales is a very bad idea. I don't think we have still many cd only readers on the wild, the problem is more to have dvd or usb device (with odd real size)
so may be we could have different limit: for example 1Gb for small usb flash card?
I think we could even completely drop the "cd/dvd" reference (not the fact that the image is usable as dvd), for example use 1gb (in fact 900Mb), 2Gb (1900Mb?), 4Gb (3800Mb?) as limits. 4 Gb being the "dvd" one.
Like this we could go upper, 8Gb usb device are common nowaday.
jdd Not common among the poor. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 06/09/2011 16:23, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:04:30 AM jdd wrote:
so may be we could have different limit: for example 1Gb for small usb flash card?
Not common among the poor.
collect 1Gb usb device and send them, there are a lot here nobody use anymore :-) well the argument is good. May we should make a poll to see howmany of our users use still a cd and can't use a 1Gb usb device we can also provide a 1Gb usb image and see howmany cd are still downloaded most "poor" are on the less used locales also, so removing locale is not a good idea for them! jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 07:28:45 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 16:23, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:04:30 AM jdd wrote:
so may be we could have different limit: for example 1Gb for small usb flash card?
Not common among the poor.
collect 1Gb usb device and send them, there are a lot here nobody use anymore :-)
well the argument is good. May we should make a poll to see howmany of our users use still a cd and can't use a 1Gb usb device
we can also provide a 1Gb usb image and see howmany cd are still downloaded
most "poor" are on the less used locales also, so removing locale is not a good idea for them!
jdd You can open a feature request in openFATE. That will have the same effect as a poll. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 07:23 -0700, Roger Luedecke wrote:
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 01:04:30 AM jdd wrote:
Le 06/09/2011 09:12, Stephan Kulow a écrit :
factory repo. So it's not really useful. I now reduced the list of locales even further to free room - but I'm not really happy about it ;(
reducing locales is a very bad idea. I don't think we have still many cd only readers on the wild, the problem is more to have dvd or usb device (with odd real size)
so may be we could have different limit: for example 1Gb for small usb flash card?
I think we could even completely drop the "cd/dvd" reference (not the fact that the image is usable as dvd), for example use 1gb (in fact 900Mb), 2Gb (1900Mb?), 4Gb (3800Mb?) as limits. 4 Gb being the "dvd" one.
Like this we could go upper, 8Gb usb device are common nowaday.
jdd Not common among the poor. Actually, it is hard to buy an USB-stick smaller than 4GB. Those things with just 1GB come free with magazines, chocolat bars...
hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 06 Sep 2011 09:12:18 Stephan Kulow wrote:
I now reduced the list of locales even further to free room - but I'm not really happy about it
Perhaps you might consider removing Gimp instead of locales? My family and friends and going to be unpleasantly surprised at the lack of Fr locale. :( -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 09:53:03 AM Graham Anderson wrote:
On Tuesday 06 Sep 2011 09:12:18 Stephan Kulow wrote:
I now reduced the list of locales even further to free room - but I'm not really happy about it
Perhaps you might consider removing Gimp instead of locales? My family and friends and going to be unpleasantly surprised at the lack of Fr locale. :( Gimp isn't essential IMO. I don't really know why its included in the Live image anyway. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Roger Luedecke <roger.luedecke@gmail.com> [09-06-11 15:26]:
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 09:53:03 AM Graham Anderson wrote:
On Tuesday 06 Sep 2011 09:12:18 Stephan Kulow wrote:
I now reduced the list of locales even further to free room - but I'm not really happy about it
Perhaps you might consider removing Gimp instead of locales? My family and friends and going to be unpleasantly surprised at the lack of Fr locale. :( Gimp isn't essential IMO. I don't really know why its included in the Live image anyway.
Keep gimp and drop kmail. Probably a even exchange and a graphical email client is not needed as text works fine. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Wednesday 07 September 2011 On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:59:42 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Keep gimp and drop kmail.
Are you sure GIMP is KDE application? -- WBR Kyrill -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Kyrill Detinov <lazy.kent@opensuse.org> [09-06-11 17:11]:
Wednesday 07 September 2011
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:59:42 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Keep gimp and drop kmail.
Are you sure GIMP is KDE application?
sure it is *not*. But it is *the* linux graphics editor. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Wednesday 07 September 2011 On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:20:05 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Keep gimp and drop kmail.
Are you sure GIMP is KDE application?
sure it is *not*. But it is *the* linux graphics editor.
We talk about *KDE* LiveCD, right? I'd prefer to use Krita, KOffice (Calligra) and KMail. -- WBR Kyrill -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Kyrill Detinov <lazy.kent@opensuse.org> [09-06-11 17:42]:
Wednesday 07 September 2011
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:20:05 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Keep gimp and drop kmail.
Are you sure GIMP is KDE application?
sure it is *not*. But it is *the* linux graphics editor.
We talk about *KDE* LiveCD, right? I'd prefer to use Krita, KOffice (Calligra) and KMail.
then you *only* include kde ??? and *nothing* else and krita doesn't approach gimp functionality -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 6 September 2011 17:59, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote: * Kyrill Detinov <lazy.kent@opensuse.org> [09-06-11 17:42]:
Wednesday 07 September 2011
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:20:05 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Keep gimp and drop kmail.
Are you sure GIMP is KDE application?
sure it is *not*. But it is *the* linux graphics editor.
We talk about *KDE* LiveCD, right? I'd prefer to use Krita, KOffice (Calligra) and KMail.
then you *only* include kde ??? and *nothing* else and krita doesn't approach gimp functionality
What of Gwenview with KIPI Plugins?
-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Steven Sroka <sroka.steven@gmail.com> [09-06-11 18:27]:
On 6 September 2011 17:59, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote: * Kyrill Detinov <lazy.kent@opensuse.org> [09-06-11 17:42]:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:20:05 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Keep gimp and drop kmail. Are you sure GIMP is KDE application? sure it is *not*. But it is *the* linux graphics editor.
We talk about *KDE* LiveCD, right? I'd prefer to use Krita, KOffice (Calligra) and KMail.
then you *only* include kde ??? and *nothing* else and krita doesn't approach gimp functionality
What of Gwenview with KIPI Plugins?
gwenview doesn't even display raw photo files, only converts and I believe only batch mode. gqview works better but neither is a graphics editor. and gwenview is an "image viewer" by definition, not a graphics editor. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 07/09/11 10:35, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Steven Sroka<sroka.steven@gmail.com> [09-06-11 18:27]:
On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:20:05 -0400 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> Keep gimp and drop kmail. Are you sure GIMP is KDE application? sure it is *not*. But it is *the* linux graphics editor. We talk about *KDE* LiveCD, right? I'd prefer to use Krita, KOffice (Calligra) and KMail.
On 6 September 2011 17:59, Patrick Shanahan<paka@opensuse.org> wrote: * Kyrill Detinov<lazy.kent@opensuse.org> [09-06-11 17:42]: then you *only* include kde ??? and *nothing* else and krita doesn't approach gimp functionality What of Gwenview with KIPI Plugins? gwenview doesn't even display raw photo files, only converts and I believe only batch mode. gqview works better but neither is a graphics editor.
and gwenview is an "image viewer" by definition, not a graphics editor.
I have to admit that I have not been following this thread closely and perhaps this has already been asked/discussed and resolved: there is always a delta release which upgrades a *DVD* release copy of openSUSE. Cannot the use of deltas be made to upgrade KDE Live CDs instead of recreating the CDs every (?)day/few days? BC -- A quick survey at this office revealed that the preferred method of getting rid of unwanted pubic hair is to use dental floss. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (16)
-
Basil Chupin -
doiggl＠velocitynet.com.au -
Frederic Crozat -
Graham Anderson -
Greg Freemyer -
Hans Witvliet -
jdd -
Kim Leyendecker -
Kyrill Detinov -
Patrick Shanahan -
Rajko M. -
Roger Luedecke -
Stefan Seyfried -
Stephan Kulow -
Steven Sroka -
Vahis