[opensuse-factory] Multimedia/NVIDIA repos during install - Discussion
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there , or - have a small set of extra repos that can be checked to enable ( Multimedia, Graphic Drivers, Advanced Enter Repo URLs ). My reasoning is that we are losing new users ( i.e. potential new contributors ) to distros that have a simple way of enabling multimedia and graphics support during install. IMHO we need to do something in the installer to change the reputation of this being a hassle to one of having this really properly done. Shoot, -- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 06:27:15PM +0100, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back
Ouch! Has this been removed?
- the NVIDIA repo present there
Would be good to have this already during installation.
- the Packman repo there , or - have a small set of extra repos that can be checked to enable ( Multimedia, Graphic Drivers, Advanced Enter Repo URLs ).
Or this. Would also be fine.
My reasoning is that we are losing new users ( i.e. potential new contributors ) to distros that have a simple way of enabling multimedia and graphics support during install. IMHO we need to do something in the installer to change the reputation of this being a hassle to one of having this really properly done.
I agree. CU, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer ----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Knurpht, Am Freitag, 13. November 2020, 18:27:15 CET schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there , or - have a small set of extra repos that can be checked to enable ( Multimedia, Graphic Drivers, Advanced Enter Repo URLs ).
My reasoning is that we are losing new users ( i.e. potential new contributors) to distros that have a simple way of enabling multimedia and graphics support during install. IMHO we need to do something in the installer to change the reputation of this being a hassle to one of having this really properly done.
Yes, that would make life for less experienced users easier, and probably increase acceptance as well. A corresponding note on the respective screen should make clear that these are repos out of openSUSE control Thanks for this initiative Axel
Op vrijdag 13 november 2020 19:06:35 CET schreef Axel Braun:
Hello Knurpht,
Am Freitag, 13. November 2020, 18:27:15 CET schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there , or - have a small set of extra repos that can be checked to enable ( Multimedia, Graphic Drivers, Advanced Enter Repo URLs ).
My reasoning is that we are losing new users ( i.e. potential new contributors) to distros that have a simple way of enabling multimedia and graphics support during install. IMHO we need to do something in the installer to change the reputation of this being a hassle to one of having this really properly done.
Yes, that would make life for less experienced users easier, and probably increase acceptance as well.
A corresponding note on the respective screen should make clear that these are repos out of openSUSE control
Agreed to that.
Thanks for this initiative Axel _______________________________________________ openSUSE Factory mailing list -- factory@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email factory-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team
On 11/13/20 1:06 PM, Axel Braun wrote:
Hello Knurpht,
Am Freitag, 13. November 2020, 18:27:15 CET schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there , or - have a small set of extra repos that can be checked to enable ( Multimedia, Graphic Drivers, Advanced Enter Repo URLs ).
My reasoning is that we are losing new users ( i.e. potential new contributors) to distros that have a simple way of enabling multimedia and graphics support during install. IMHO we need to do something in the installer to change the reputation of this being a hassle to one of having this really properly done. Yes, that would make life for less experienced users easier, and probably increase acceptance as well.
A corresponding note on the respective screen should make clear that these are repos out of openSUSE control
Thanks for this initiative Axel _______________________________________________
+1 --doug
+1 On 13/11/2020, Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> wrote:
On 11/13/20 1:06 PM, Axel Braun wrote:
Hello Knurpht,
Am Freitag, 13. November 2020, 18:27:15 CET schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there , or - have a small set of extra repos that can be checked to enable ( Multimedia, Graphic Drivers, Advanced Enter Repo URLs ).
My reasoning is that we are losing new users ( i.e. potential new contributors) to distros that have a simple way of enabling multimedia and graphics support during install. IMHO we need to do something in the installer to change the reputation of this being a hassle to one of having this really properly done. Yes, that would make life for less experienced users easier, and probably increase acceptance as well.
A corresponding note on the respective screen should make clear that these are repos out of openSUSE control
Thanks for this initiative Axel _______________________________________________
+1 --doug _______________________________________________ openSUSE Factory mailing list -- factory@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email factory-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org
-- Callum Farmer callumjfarmer13@gmail.com openSUSE - gmbr3
Am 13.11.20 um 18:27 schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there , or - have a small set of extra repos that can be checked to enable ( Multimedia, Graphic Drivers, Advanced Enter Repo URLs ).
That would indeed be a great relief. As we're talking there maybe add a dedicated screen where - things are explained - a list of the repos you mentioned - each followed with checkboxes to activate the repo and install packages - licenses are linked for reading I made a rough mockup to illustrate what I'd like to see: https://cloud.vinzv.space/s/pX3yZTWPMDEkjd6 Comments? vinz.
Am 13.11.20 um 18:27 schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config
El sábado, 14 de noviembre de 2020 0:28:18 (CET) Vinzenz Vietzke escribió: section of the installer back
- the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there , or - have a small set of extra repos that can be checked to enable ( Multimedia, Graphic Drivers, Advanced Enter Repo URLs ).
That would indeed be a great relief. As we're talking there maybe add a dedicated screen where - things are explained - a list of the repos you mentioned - each followed with checkboxes to activate the repo and install packages - licenses are linked for reading
I made a rough mockup to illustrate what I'd like to see: https://cloud.vinzv.space/s/pX3yZTWPMDEkjd6
Comments?
It's a good start. Some comments: - I would have less text and show the license when enabling the corresponding repository - I would have the options (add/install) in one column Greetings, -- Javier Llorente
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
Some time ago (10 years or more), the then lecal counsel of SUSE explained to me that the problem was, that even providing an easy way to enable a repo with legally / licensing-wise problematic stuff during installation was more or less legally identical to providing the packages. And the difference of openSUSE to e.g. ubuntu is that ubuntu is a company with no money at all and no assets on some remote channel island (or something like that), so they get away with it because everyone knows that there is nothing to get from them. SUSE OTOH is different in this regard. That's how I understood it back then, why this was not so easily done. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 10:32 AM Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
Some time ago (10 years or more), the then lecal counsel of SUSE explained to me that the problem was, that even providing an easy way to enable a repo with legally / licensing-wise problematic stuff during installation was more or less legally identical to providing the packages.
And the difference of openSUSE to e.g. ubuntu is that ubuntu is a company with no money at all and no assets on some remote channel island (or something like that), so they get away with it because everyone knows that there is nothing to get from them. SUSE OTOH is different in this regard.
That's how I understood it back then, why this was not so easily done.
This is the same reason Fedora requires legal review for all third-party repositories shipped in the distribution. Fedora cannot ship repository configuration files for all of RPM Fusion, just like SUSE cannot have openSUSE ship a configuration module for Packman. The legal risk to the Projects would be horrific. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 10:32 AM Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config
Op zaterdag 14 november 2020 16:35:17 CET schreef Neal Gompa: section of the installer back
- the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
Some time ago (10 years or more), the then lecal counsel of SUSE explained to me that the problem was, that even providing an easy way to enable a repo with legally / licensing-wise problematic stuff during installation was more or less legally identical to providing the packages.
And the difference of openSUSE to e.g. ubuntu is that ubuntu is a company with no money at all and no assets on some remote channel island (or something like that), so they get away with it because everyone knows that there is nothing to get from them. SUSE OTOH is different in this regard.
That's how I understood it back then, why this was not so easily done.
This is the same reason Fedora requires legal review for all third-party repositories shipped in the distribution. Fedora cannot ship repository configuration files for all of RPM Fusion, just like SUSE cannot have openSUSE ship a configuration module for Packman. The legal risk to the Projects would be horrific.
-- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! _______________________________________________ openSUSE Factory mailing list -- factory@lists.opensuse.org To unsubscribe, email factory-leave@lists.opensuse.org List Netiquette: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_list_netiquette List Archives: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org
Fair enough, Still: Wouldn't the option for the user to add repos by URL not work around that issue? -- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team
Am Samstag, 14. November 2020, 16:50:33 CET schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:
Op zaterdag 14 november 2020 16:35:17 CET schreef Neal Gompa:
On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 10:32 AM Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
Some time ago (10 years or more), the then lecal counsel of SUSE explained to me that the problem was, that even providing an easy way to enable a repo with legally / licensing-wise problematic stuff during installation was more or less legally identical to providing the packages.
And the difference of openSUSE to e.g. ubuntu is that ubuntu is a company with no money at all and no assets on some remote channel island (or something like that), so they get away with it because everyone knows that there is nothing to get from them. SUSE OTOH is different in this regard.
That's how I understood it back then, why this was not so easily done.
This is the same reason Fedora requires legal review for all third-party repositories shipped in the distribution. Fedora cannot ship repository configuration files for all of RPM Fusion, just like SUSE cannot have openSUSE ship a configuration module for Packman. The legal risk to the Projects would be horrific.
Hm, SUSE != openSUSE but I would be interested in the actual legal situation... openSUSE Foundation would change the game (and put the risk on the foundation)
Fair enough, Still: Wouldn't the option for the user to add repos by URL not work around that issue?
As long as you can remember the URL during setup ;-) Seriously, it would help, but not the newbie, at least not w/o further hints. Another option could be to move this to the welcome screen, where one can add a search like https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=opensuse+restricted+format I guess that should be legally compliant Cheers Axel
On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 10:32 AM Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config
El sábado, 14 de noviembre de 2020 16:35:17 (CET) Neal Gompa escribió: section of the installer back
- the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
Some time ago (10 years or more), the then lecal counsel of SUSE explained to me that the problem was, that even providing an easy way to enable a repo with legally / licensing-wise problematic stuff during installation was more or less legally identical to providing the packages.
And the difference of openSUSE to e.g. ubuntu is that ubuntu is a company with no money at all and no assets on some remote channel island (or something like that), so they get away with it because everyone knows that there is nothing to get from them. SUSE OTOH is different in this regard.
That's how I understood it back then, why this was not so easily done.
This is the same reason Fedora requires legal review for all third-party repositories shipped in the distribution. Fedora cannot ship repository configuration files for all of RPM Fusion, just like SUSE cannot have openSUSE ship a configuration module for Packman. The legal risk to the Projects would be horrific.
What are the differences between having Packman on installation and having Packman after the installation? If we get the repository list off the Internet, we wouldn't be shipping it :) Greetings, -- Javier Llorente
On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 5:25 AM Javier Llorente <javier@opensuse.org> wrote:
On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 10:32 AM Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com> wrote:
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config
El sábado, 14 de noviembre de 2020 16:35:17 (CET) Neal Gompa escribió: section of the installer back
- the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
Some time ago (10 years or more), the then lecal counsel of SUSE explained to me that the problem was, that even providing an easy way to enable a repo with legally / licensing-wise problematic stuff during installation was more or less legally identical to providing the packages.
And the difference of openSUSE to e.g. ubuntu is that ubuntu is a company with no money at all and no assets on some remote channel island (or something like that), so they get away with it because everyone knows that there is nothing to get from them. SUSE OTOH is different in this regard.
That's how I understood it back then, why this was not so easily done.
This is the same reason Fedora requires legal review for all third-party repositories shipped in the distribution. Fedora cannot ship repository configuration files for all of RPM Fusion, just like SUSE cannot have openSUSE ship a configuration module for Packman. The legal risk to the Projects would be horrific.
What are the differences between having Packman on installation and having Packman after the installation? If we get the repository list off the Internet, we wouldn't be shipping it :)
I'm not a lawyer, but if openSUSE is the one providing the mechanism to activate and use software from Packman, I believe it counts. Loopholes are not a thing here. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
On 2020-11-14 10:31 a.m., Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there Some time ago (10 years or more), the then lecal counsel of SUSE explained to me that the problem was, that even providing an easy way to enable a repo with legally / licensing-wise problematic stuff during installation was more or less legally identical to providing the packages.
And the difference of openSUSE to e.g. ubuntu is that ubuntu is a company with no money at all and no assets on some remote channel island (or something like that), so they get away with it because everyone knows that there is nothing to get from them. SUSE OTOH is different in this regard.
That's how I understood it back then, why this was not so easily done.
They have a server on that island. The office is in another country. Surely, this can simplified in 2021. I would like to see yast software manager's gui updated from mostly text to something more modernized. -- Cheers! Roman
Am Samstag, 14. November 2020, 16:31:58 CET schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
Some time ago (10 years or more), the then lecal counsel of SUSE explained to me that the problem was, that even providing an easy way to enable a repo with legally / licensing-wise problematic stuff during installation was more or less legally identical to providing the packages.
From a legal point of view: as long as the packages came from NVIDIA (which
Although IANAL, I would question this legally. To lump NVIDIA and Packman license matters together is questionable here. I always thought, NVIDIA is not wanted for *political* reasons... they do), and the choice is clearly flagged as being a foreign source, what would a NVIDIA lawyer want to attack here and why? Packman is a different story. We shouldn't even discuss that here. Cheers, Pete
Hi Knurpht, On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
I have recently installed a Laptop with Leap 15.2 (I never do fresh installs for tumbleweed, because -- why should I? ;-)) and I'm 100% sure I added packman. Additionally, I'm pretty sure I did not have to enter an URL or such but instead just used "add online repos => Community repos" or something like that (I don't remember the exact steps, but you can try this out as quickly as I could right now ;-)). There is a small possibility that I did that after the initial installation, but I don't think so. So I think everything is already there, maybe it's just a bit too hidden behind two or three more submenus. Adding some way to directly access the "Add Community repos" screen might already be enough? -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
On 15.11.20 12:01, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
So I think everything is already there, maybe it's just a bit too hidden behind two or three more submenus.
Ok, scratch that. I just tried it anyway and there is no way to add the additional repos during installation, I obviously configured that after initial installation.
Adding some way to directly access the "Add Community repos" screen might already be enough?
Fun fact: there is a step "Add-On Products" on the left side pane, but it is just skipped over apparently. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
15.11.2020 14:34, Stefan Seyfried пишет:
Fun fact: there is a step "Add-On Products" on the left side pane, but it is just skipped over apparently.
There are no "products" for openSUSE, so I would rather say the bug is in showing it. <!-- Offer add-ons in the installation --> <show_addons config:type="boolean">true</show_addons> <addons_default config:type="boolean">false</addons_default>
15.11.2020 14:01, Stefan Seyfried пишет:
Hi Knurpht,
On 13.11.20 18:27, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
As per topic, is there some way to have - the old feature where one could add a repo by URL in the Online Repo Config section of the installer back - the NVIDIA repo present there - the Packman repo there
I have recently installed a Laptop with Leap 15.2 (I never do fresh installs for tumbleweed, because -- why should I? ;-)) and I'm 100% sure I added packman.
I just fired Leap 15.2 installation and only openSUSE repositories are offered.
Additionally, I'm pretty sure I did not have to enter an URL or such but instead just used "add online repos => Community repos" or something like that (I don't remember the exact steps, but you can try this out as quickly as I could right now ;-)). There is a small possibility that I did that after the initial installation, but I don't think so.
I think so.
So I think everything is already there, maybe it's just a bit too hidden behind two or three more submenus.
Everything is there after initial installation. Go to repository management and chose to add community repositories. Just select which one. No URL needed.
Adding some way to directly access the "Add Community repos" screen might already be enough?
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=293811 commit 2c83f4360a37cb4a747e3261a87c2788d9360f5f Author: Lukáš Ocilka <locilka@suse.cz> Date: Mon Jul 30 11:18:12 2007 +0000 - Community servers are not used during the installation (Bugzilla #293811). Besides, allowing (effectively, arbitrary) repositories during initial installation will be support nightmare.
participants (12)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Axel Braun -
Callum Farmer -
Doug McGarrett -
Hans-Peter Jansen -
Javier Llorente -
Knurpht-openSUSE -
Neal Gompa -
Roman Bysh -
Stefan Dirsch -
Stefan Seyfried -
Vinzenz Vietzke