[opensuse-factory] mirrorbrain

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Felix Miata

25 Mar 2011 25 Mar '11

18:45

http://en.opensuse.org/MirrorBrain Am I the only one in the US to find this to be more bad than good? Just about any time I use download.opensuse.org repos instead of a specific mirror for a lengthy dup, I find either slower than average download speeds, and/or find downloading halted by errors that do not self correct via retries. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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Marco Calistri

25 Mar 25 Mar

19:13

On Fri 25 Mar 2011 at 15:45:46 (-0300 UTC) Felix Miata wrote:

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http://en.opensuse.org/MirrorBrain

Am I the only one in the US to find this to be more bad than good? Just about any time I use download.opensuse.org repos instead of a specific mirror for a lengthy dup, I find either slower than average download speeds, and/or find downloading halted by errors that do not self correct via retries.

Felix, You're not alone: see my post in annex on the matter. Cheers! -- Marco Calistri The cemeteries of the world are full of indispensable men. -- Charles de Gaulle

Felix Miata

19:48

On 2011/03/25 16:13 (GMT-0300) Marco Calistri composed:

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Felix Miata wrote:

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http://en.opensuse.org/MirrorBrain

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Am I the only one in the US to find this to be more bad than good? Just about any time I use download.opensuse.org repos instead of a specific mirror for a lengthy dup, I find either slower than average download speeds, and/or find downloading halted by errors that do not self correct via retries.

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You're not alone:

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see my post in annex on the matter.

I know not what annex means. Unsolicited email attachments don't reach my eyes. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Marco Calistri

21:12

On Fri 25 Mar 2011 at 16:48:45 (-0300 UTC) Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2011/03/25 16:13 (GMT-0300) Marco Calistri composed:

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Felix Miata wrote:

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http://en.opensuse.org/MirrorBrain

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Am I the only one in the US to find this to be more bad than good? Just about any time I use download.opensuse.org repos instead of a specific mirror for a lengthy dup, I find either slower than average download speeds, and/or find downloading halted by errors that do not self correct via retries.

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You're not alone:

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see my post in annex on the matter.

I know not what annex means. Unsolicited email attachments don't reach my eyes.

That's was not unsolicited since you asked about a problem with I met as well. But of course you are free of your own decision. Take Care, -- Marco Calistri "The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

22:11

On 2011/03/25 17:12 (GMT-0400) Marco Calistri composed:

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see my post in annex on the matter.

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I know not what annex means. Unsolicited email attachments don't reach my eyes.

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That's was not unsolicited since you asked about a problem with I met as well.

On the contrary. I didn't email the list using an attachment, and I expect a polite reply to contain no attachment. I asked using plain text, without inviting any other kind response or providing any inference that some other kind might be appropriate. If a response in the form of something other than a like (inline typed text) reply is too big to paste in, then send a link to where I can find it using a web browser at my convenience. I'm virtually dumfounded the way openSUSE lists are run generally that any attachment is ever permissible. http://www.emailaddresses.com/email-attachment-etiquette.htm explains my position on email attachments, which I treat as spam (delete, manually if not done automatically by my filters) regardless of source or intent of sender. So, I still have no idea what annex means. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Jeff Mahoney

22:22

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/25/2011 06:11 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2011/03/25 17:12 (GMT-0400) Marco Calistri composed:

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see my post in annex on the matter.

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I know not what annex means. Unsolicited email attachments don't reach my eyes.

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That's was not unsolicited since you asked about a problem with I met as well.

On the contrary. I didn't email the list using an attachment, and I expect a polite reply to contain no attachment. I asked using plain text, without inviting any other kind response or providing any inference that some other kind might be appropriate. If a response in the form of something other than a like (inline typed text) reply is too big to paste in, then send a link to where I can find it using a web browser at my convenience. I'm virtually dumfounded the way openSUSE lists are run generally that any attachment is ever permissible.

http://www.emailaddresses.com/email-attachment-etiquette.htm explains my position on email attachments, which I treat as spam (delete, manually if not done automatically by my filters) regardless of source or intent of sender.

So, I still have no idea what annex means.

Felix, the attachment was a standard email forward. The irony is that you're the one asking for help, he offered it, you've ignored it, and are now berating him over how he gave it to you. Not exactly a great incentive to offer help. Now if the attachment was an image or some other irrelevant thing, then fine - but it was a standard email message. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SuSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk2NFYwACgkQLPWxlyuTD7KpTQCfcpCyZ045vo+5gftuItJvCMmv kA4AnR45g11G31FgpGmQ23aAjUwEuMoP =tcOG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

26 Mar 26 Mar

01:12

On 2011/03/25 18:22 (GMT-0400) Jeff Mahoney composed:

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Felix, the attachment was a standard email forward.

At least in the cases of Marco's and my UAs, there are two types of "standard" forwards: inline true attachment He used: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 to create the latter form, while his UA is a virtual twin to my 3 week older, yet newer, User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:2.0b12pre) Gecko/20110210 SeaMonkey/2.1b3pre both of which are perfectly capable of attaching inline. In the inline case, our UAs display the "attachment" as ordinary content, meaning its content type is perfectly apparent, unlike the attachment type, which AFAIK neither TB nor SM explain by default, only by taking optional steps a person like me who receives upwards of 400 emails a day has no interest in wasting time on. BTW, the UA string, if conformantly provided in the email headers by the sending UA, is displayed by my UA automatically. I don't have to guess, or dig, to find out if email sent to me was sent by SM or TB any of several other _modern_ and competent email programs that know how to include a sending UA string along with the panoply of other headers. Any here like Ken implying that my UA is incompetent or otherwise deficient by suggesting I "upgrade" my latest available version of modern open source email software need only know I use what I use because it is a 100% cross-platform product, and as a heavy user of it it enables me to provide competent support for it even to clueless users on Mac, eComStation, Windows - and even Linux, as well as to spot and report its bugs on bugzilla.mozilla.org. Isn't that part of what this mailing list is about, using devel software, and finding and reporting and testing fixes for found bugs?

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The irony is that you're the one asking for help, he offered it, you've ignored it,

I didn't ignore it his email. As you've obviously seen I responded to it. What I ignored was the marginally described attachment. Maybe at another time I _might_ have recognized his use of the word annex, but since in the 75+ US language email lists I've been on in more than a decade there is one standard word used for stuff other than freshly typed text attached to an email, "attachment", while "annex" is a word that seems in this country at least usually reserved for use in a real estate context, I didn't make his connection.

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and are now berating him over how he gave it to you. Not exactly a great incentive to offer help.

Arguably true, but at the time and still I don't consider what I wrote to be berating. No one's perfect, least of all me.

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Now if the attachment was an image or some other irrelevant thing, then fine - but it was a standard email message.

As result of SOP here, since due to the vast majority of email having attachments in fact being spam and this particular message's attachment type and size not apparent, all attachment emails are categorically given equivalent treatment, either straight to trash in entirety, or attachments to the trash as separate process if there is actual relevant textual content. Meanwhile, the thread is now comprised primarily of posts that have nothing to do with the subject problem (unfortunately, nothing unusual for an openSUSE mailing list). Are he and I the only two people on this list who find the quality of mirrorbrain unacceptable? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

28 Mar 28 Mar

04:35

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2011-03-25 at 21:12 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: ...

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I didn't ignore it his email. As you've obviously seen I responded to it. What I ignored was the marginally described attachment. Maybe at another time I _might_ have recognized his use of the word annex, but since in the 75+ US language email lists I've been on in more than a decade there is one standard

But Felix, this is not a "US language email list". This is an international mail list, used by a lot of people with English as first language and by a lot with different languages, all of them trying to communicate with a more or less common language. You have to make some leeway and try to guess the meaning, or ask - politely. You overreacted. Text attachments of any kind are not dangerous on Linux, simply trust amavis. Perhaps you are reading with Outlook, which is known to be vulnerable to many types of attack :-P - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk2QEBIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W+HQCeI7EoeaWfzGqfiChdpflBSe/x xRYAnR4ryjWxKOilBpsyEIltOcAMH+t8 =O4Sp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

05:06

New subject: [opensuse-factory] was: mirrorbrain

On 2011/03/28 06:35 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:

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But Felix, this is not a "US language email list".

That's not how I interpret: "User/Support opensuse English Generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution" from http://lists.opensuse.org/ where there are many lists for the same purpose but in other languages.

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This is an international mail list, used by a lot of people with English as first language and by a lot with different languages, all of them trying to communicate with a more or less common language. You have to make some leeway and try to guess the meaning, or ask - politely.

Of course, but sometimes there is no apparent question to ask or guess about, as when someone uses a common word for something other than its most common meaning among those for whom the language is native.

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You overreacted. Text attachments of any kind are not dangerous on Linux,

In this list it obviously isn't about significant danger, though some subscribers here do use email software that is susceptible to danger from binary attachments. It's about bandwidth and inconvenience. The attachment complained of was capable of being attached inline, which would have made both its small size and type readily apparent, quite the opposite of the type actually used.

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Perhaps you are reading with Outlook, which is known to be vulnerable to many types of attack :-P

As I've already mentioned in this very thread, every email I send announces in the headers what it was sent with, most certainly not any proprietaryware from Redmond; just as every email I open that has made an equivalent announcement shows me automatically the UA it was sent with (in your case, Alpine 2.00 (LNX 1167 2008-08-23)). Consequently, there's no need to guess what I use, or suggest something not well known for susceptibility to malware. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Ralf Lang

5 Apr 5 Apr

08:22

New subject: [opensuse-factory] let's get back to: mirrorbrain -- was: mirrorbrain

Hi Felix, Am Montag, 28. März 2011, 07:06:40 schrieb Felix Miata:

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On 2011/03/28 06:35 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:

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But Felix, this is not a "US language email list".

That's not how I interpret:

"User/Support opensuse English Generic questions and User to User support for the openSUSE distribution"

from http://lists.opensuse.org/ where there are many lists for the same purpose but in other languages.

This leads you nowhere. You've been told and you knew beforehand what kind of people use this list. English doesn't mean US English, neither by default nor by tradition of a product whose roots have been an obscure little formerly European company called SUSE or something like this. On side topics: If the list's description doesn't inform you or the general public that users may note care for US usage of the word, that may be a problem in general (or may not). It doesn't apply here though because you have been told it explicitly. What's left is rationalizing your over-reaction on a text attachment. You decide to drop attachments - not my problem. You clutter this list with complaints about users' practice of sending tech attachments - not good for the list. All this bla bla on how you have the best bloated email client ever broken by a designer doesn't help us out of this situation where you're making up excuses for your really minor and negligigle fault of being rude to a list user. I would just have read over it if you had not expanded upon it. On policy: I do like external attachments as links to archives. I also like minimizing bandwith, prefering text over html and other good practices. But this list allows different practices for a reason and it usually works out if we're all a little bit tolerant. On topic: Let's stop this and be productive again. In Europe, I don't experience the mirrorbrain thing as slower than direct mirror selection. I can check with a US east coast proxy environment this evening if you are interested in a benchmark. I also have an israeli one at my disposal. Let's just find out what's wrong and fix it and be happy. -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Marco Calistri

25 Mar 25 Mar

22:22

On Fri 25 Mar 2011 at 19:11:09 (-0300 UTC) Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2011/03/25 17:12 (GMT-0400) Marco Calistri composed:

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...
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see my post in annex on the matter.

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I know not what annex means. Unsolicited email attachments don't reach my eyes.

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That's was not unsolicited since you asked about a problem with I met as well.

On the contrary. I didn't email the list using an attachment, and I expect a polite reply to contain no attachment. I asked using plain text, without inviting any other kind response or providing any inference that some other kind might be appropriate. If a response in the form of something other than a like (inline typed text) reply is too big to paste in, then send a link to where I can find it using a web browser at my convenience. I'm virtually dumfounded the way openSUSE lists are run generally that any attachment is ever permissible.

http://www.emailaddresses.com/email-attachment-etiquette.htm explains my position on email attachments, which I treat as spam (delete, manually if not done automatically by my filters) regardless of source or intent of sender.

So, I still have no idea what annex means. Ok,

So here what I would like to send you with the attachment:

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On 22/02/2011 13.53, Marco Calistri wrote: Re: Mirrorbrain failures over Brazilian opensuse Mirrors

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Mates,

In order to avoid an error (IPv6 like, IMHO) I had to modify the default repository URL "download.opensuse.org" to "ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/".

I suppose this is a local problem here in Brazil where the main URL were redirected on Brazilian openSUSE mirror which apparently is failing the connection.

Cheers,

Bye, -- Marco Calistri It would seem that the theory [quantum mechanics] is exclusively concerned about "results of measurement", and has nothing to say about anything else. What exactly qualifies some physical systems to play the role of "measurer"? Was the wavefunction of the world waiting to jump for thousands of millions of years until a single-celled living creature appeared? Or did it have to wait a little longer, for some better qualified system ... with a Ph.D.? -- J. S. Bell -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Ken Savage

22:37

On 03/25/2011 03:11 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

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On the contrary. I didn't email the list using an attachment, and I expect a polite reply to contain no attachment. I asked using plain text, without inviting any other kind response or providing any inference that some other [...] http://www.emailaddresses.com/email-attachment-etiquette.htm explains my position on email attachments, which I treat as spam (delete, manually if not done automatically by my filters) regardless of source or intent of sender.

I'm sorry here, but I would have to say Marco did no ill behaviour. The rest of the world out there aren't mind readers, nor do they conveniently have a smorgasbord of email etiquette URLs to match up with every developer to which they are replying. You solicited some information which was provided as a textual attachment by someone legitimately trying to honestly give you assistance. If your email / listserv reader has difficulties with these attachments, I suggest upgrading. I hear openSUSE 11.4 has a number of fine applications which would function nicely in this regard ;) If, for whatever reason you're scared of a virus or rogue attachment, you may consider running your web browser and email client in a VirtualBox session, snapshotting it before you read something possibly nefarious, and reverting back if something went wrong. I think that level of suspicion is extreme, but I've been known to do it with some binary-only applications. Cheers, Ken -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Anders Johansson

22:47

On Friday 25 March 2011 23:11:09 Felix Miata wrote:

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So, I still have no idea what annex means.

May I suggest that you consult a dictionary? The standard word is "attachment", but "annex" means "an added stipulation or statement". Not very common in this particular context, but on an international list, you should practice what your email signature preaches: "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Tejas Guruswamy

26 Mar 26 Mar

10:48

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http://en.opensuse.org/MirrorBrain

Am I the only one in the US to find this to be more bad than good? Just about any time I use download.opensuse.org repos instead of a specific mirror for a lengthy dup, I find either slower than average download speeds, and/or find downloading halted by errors that do not self correct via retries. Mirrorbrain tries to prefer nearby mirrors. I think it's long been known

On 25/03/11 18:45, Felix Miata wrote: that openSUSE struggles a bit for good mirrors in the US, all the good ones are in Europe. The solution is not to blame mirrorbrain - which is great software IMO, and prevents a lot of problems other organisations are always fighting with* - but to adjust the mirror priorities (contact admins when you see a poorly performing mirror), or even better, to get some more performant US mirrors online. Tejas *Mirrorbrain does balancing the load across mirrors while giving users only one url, ensuring only up-to-date verified files are served, automatically providing metalink + torrent downloads of all files, providing hashes, auto-generating up-to-date mirror lists (just append "?mirrorlist" to any download.opensuse.org file URL). Also it can filter and sort directory listings and do other clever things. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

27 Mar 27 Mar

10:22

On 2011/03/26 10:48 (GMT) Tejas Guruswamy composed:

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Mirrorbrain tries to prefer nearby mirrors. I think it's long been known that openSUSE struggles a bit for good mirrors in the US, all the good ones are in Europe.

Speaking of mirrors in US, IDSTR zypper providing info about which mirror is actually being connected to when it tells what it is connecting to or downloading from. Am I misremembering this?

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The solution is not to blame mirrorbrain - which is great software IMO, and prevents a lot of problems other organisations are always fighting with* - but to adjust the mirror priorities (contact admins when you see a poorly performing mirror), or even better, to get some more performant US mirrors online.

Since it hides the actual server name, how does one discover the identity of the poor performer, or what "local" servers it has to choose from?

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*Mirrorbrain does balancing the load across mirrors while giving users only one url, ensuring only up-to-date verified files are served, automatically providing metalink + torrent downloads of all files, providing hashes, auto-generating up-to-date mirror lists (just append "?mirrorlist" to any download.opensuse.org file URL). Also it can filter and sort directory listings and do other clever things.

Is Mirrorbrain the same software used by mirrors.kernel.org? I get similarly poor performance when I try to use it for more than examining directory listings in a web browser. Does Novell have any download servers of its own located in the US? FWIW, bugzilla.novell.com is the poorest overall performer of all the bugzillas I use more than a little, not even counting its too short login timeout and URL duplication doubling up my browser history. What is that GoAheadAndLogIn=1 URL component good for besides making multiple URLs for apparently identical content? None of kernel.org, redhat.com, mandriva, kde.org or freedesktop.org find that necessary. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Tejas Guruswamy

11:58

On 27/03/11 11:22, Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2011/03/26 10:48 (GMT) Tejas Guruswamy composed:

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Mirrorbrain tries to prefer nearby mirrors. I think it's long been known that openSUSE struggles a bit for good mirrors in the US, all the good ones are in Europe. Speaking of mirrors in US, IDSTR zypper providing info about which mirror is actually being connected to when it tells what it is connecting to or downloading from. Am I misremembering this?

It doesn't by default - some info is in /var/log/zypper.log (look for "redirect"), maybe a zypp developer can chip in with how to do debug properly.

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The solution is not to blame mirrorbrain - which is great software IMO, and prevents a lot of problems other organisations are always fighting with* - but to adjust the mirror priorities (contact admins when you see a poorly performing mirror), or even better, to get some more performant US mirrors online. Since it hides the actual server name, how does one discover the identity of the poor performer, or what "local" servers it has to choose from?

For which servers are available for a file, and which MirrorBrain via GeoIP thinks are nearby, try something like http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/.mirrorlist in a web browser (just append .mirrorlist or ?mirrorlist to any d.o.o url) for which ones are poor, look in your zypper logs or run your own speed tests

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*Mirrorbrain does balancing the load across mirrors while giving users only one url, ensuring only up-to-date verified files are served, automatically providing metalink + torrent downloads of all files, providing hashes, auto-generating up-to-date mirror lists (just append "?mirrorlist" to any download.opensuse.org file URL). Also it can filter and sort directory listings and do other clever things. Is Mirrorbrain the same software used by mirrors.kernel.org? I get similarly poor performance when I try to use it for more than examining directory listings in a web browser.

Doesn't look like it. Anyway as I said mirrorbrain only provides clever directory listings and mirror management/redirects, you can't blame it for poor performance - that's just the availability of mirrors/the mirrors themselves.

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Does Novell have any download servers of its own located in the US?

http://mirrors.opensuse.org/ says there is one Novell mirror, and is in fact one of only two US mirrors for Build Service repositories. Is your main complaint about BS repos?

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FWIW, bugzilla.novell.com is the poorest overall performer of all the bugzillas I use more than a little, not even counting its too short login timeout and URL duplication doubling up my browser history. What is that GoAheadAndLogIn=1 URL component good for besides making multiple URLs for apparently identical content? None of kernel.org, redhat.com, mandriva, kde.org or freedesktop.org find that necessary.

Apparently because bugzilla infrastructure is shared between openSUSE and other Novell products there is a lot of inertia on changes/improvements. Different topic altogether. Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Lars Vogdt

08:52

On Fr 25 Mär 2011 19:45:46 CET Felix Miata wrote:

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http://en.opensuse.org/MirrorBrain

Am I the only one in the US to find this to be more bad than good? Just about any time I use download.opensuse.org repos instead of a specific mirror for a lengthy dup, I find either slower than average download speeds, and/or find downloading halted by errors that do not self correct via retries.

The problem with US is not only that we miss some powerful mirrors in this region. We already discussed the possibility to have some "GeoIP based servers" hosting download.opensuse.org - but until now, our internet provider could not offer us some Nameservers that can handle requests based on the GeoIP of the requester. In a beautiful world, we would have: a) DNS servers pointing users to their closest incarnation of download.opensuse.org b) a lot of mirrors in the region which the redirector can redirect to What _everyone_ can do is trying to find more mirrors in his own region providing some of the openSUSE repositories and tell us about them (admin@opensuse.org). To get rid of the initial delay for request from US => download.opensuse.org, we need some other instances around the world. We may start with something like "http://<region>.download.opensuse.org/" if there is someone in the community who can help us with this. With kind regards, Lars -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

10:47

On 2011/03/27 10:52 (GMT+0200) Lars Vogdt composed:

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The problem with US is not only that we miss some powerful mirrors in this region. We already discussed the possibility to have some "GeoIP based servers" hosting download.opensuse.org - but until now, our internet provider could not offer us some Nameservers that can handle requests based on the GeoIP of the requester.

"Until now" suggests a very recent improvement. Is that what you meant, that now nameservers can handle GeoIP requests?

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In a beautiful world, we would have: a) DNS servers pointing users to their closest incarnation of download.opensuse.org b) a lot of mirrors in the region which the redirector can redirect to

Is closer actually better? I tend to find a lot of differences in speed among various mirrors, which I ascribe more to throttling than to location. Some max out my available bandwidth, while many don't even come close, particularly, sourceforge.net's participants and those that cater to Windows users. I'm in FL, and generally find some of the more well known western European mirrors to be the best performers, Eberhard Moenkeberg's among them. OTOH, I can't recall even average performance from any US university mirror, all of whom _seem_ to have low speed caps matching typically dismal US DSL throughput limits.

...

What _everyone_ can do is trying to find more mirrors in his own region providing some of the openSUSE repositories and tell us about them (admin@opensuse.org).

Any suggested URLs explaining generally how to go about finding "regional" mirrors? Does region generally refer to a continent? Country? Other? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

28 Mar 28 Mar

04:44

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2011-03-27 at 06:47 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

...

Any suggested URLs explaining generally how to go about finding "regional" mirrors? Does region generally refer to a continent? Country? Other?

Open in a browser, for example: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.4/repo/oss/ Hit the "details" link of any file. That's the info that mirrorbrains provides, and you can see the list of available mirrors, by country, continent, and worldwide. By the way: if a download doesn't work, it is not mirrorbrain fault, but zypper or yast. Those programs have enough info to select a mirror, or several. If one fails, select another one, automatically, till it works. They can create a local black/white list of mirror server to use / not to use. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk2QEkMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WddwCfX7b3Gd9cGGZqzwmHuG4myjdw aXEAoI18rpy8cMQpPJ8CDWj7m0ibElQp =cLnd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

05:31

On 2011/03/28 06:44 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:

...

Felix Miata wrote:

...

...
Any suggested URLs explaining generally how to go about finding "regional" mirrors? Does region generally refer to a continent? Country? Other?

...

Open in a browser, for example:

...

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.4/repo/oss/

...

Hit the "details" link of any file. That's the info that mirrorbrains provides, and you can see the list of available mirrors, by country, continent, and worldwide.

Good to know. I can't recall ever having opened one of those links before.

...

By the way: if a download doesn't work, it is not mirrorbrain fault, but zypper or yast. Those programs have enough info to select a mirror, or several. If one fails, select another one, automatically, till it works.

That behavior is why I started the thread. I know that's how it's _supposed_ to work. It just doesn't here. I edit my repos to use specific mirrors to get around the problem, but every now & then I do a fresh install and forget to make those edits before trying to access repos. Those times remind me the system as I find it is broken. Lately I've taken to including ipv6.disable=1 on my Grub cmdlines, but I'm not yet convinced what if any impact that's had.

...

They can create a local black/white list of mirror server to use / not to use.

Is that something zypper clean clears? I typically clean before running a lengthy dup. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Michael Schroeder

09:04

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 01:31:57AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

...

...
By the way: if a download doesn't work, it is not mirrorbrain fault, but zypper or yast. Those programs have enough info to select a mirror, or several. If one fails, select another one, automatically, till it works.

That behavior is why I started the thread. I know that's how it's _supposed_ to work. It just doesn't here.

If you're still running 11.3, please update to 11.4. The mirror handling code has been improved quite a bit. If you're already on 11.4, please open a bug and attach the zypper.log file. Thanks, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

12:33

On 2011/03/28 11:04 (GMT+0200) Michael Schroeder composed:

...

Felix Miata wrote:

...

...
That behavior is why I started the thread. I know that's how it's _supposed_ to work. It just doesn't here.

...

If you're still running 11.3, please update to 11.4. The mirror handling code has been improved quite a bit. If you're already on 11.4, please open a bug and attach the zypper.log file.

As I don't really pay attention to the problem except when doing dups of larger numbers of packages, which means Factory, and then only when I have not converted from mirrorbrain to a particular mirror after a fresh install, what you suggest will have to wait until I've added new Factories on my systems for next, and I'll have to remember to not convert the .repo files to specifying one particular mirror instead of the mirrorbrain default as I've been in the habit of doing for over a year. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

29 Mar 29 Mar

14:58

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2011-03-28 at 11:04 +0200, Michael Schroeder wrote:

...

If you're still running 11.3, please update to 11.4. The mirror handling code has been improved quite a bit. If you're already on 11.4, please open a bug and attach the zypper.log file.

If you drop by the forums, you will see many people with download problems. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk2R84kACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X6/gCfRLD18ES7c5ZNwC5R/M1iWlhl 8FIAmgLiAKvL1EO7EQ5nurmClY9QrdCj =mf2+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

14:57

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2011-03-28 at 01:31 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

...

...
They can create a local black/white list of mirror server to use / not to use.

Is that something zypper clean clears? I typically clean before running a lengthy dup.

The above is a feature they should have - I'm not sure they do. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk2R80QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W6awCfcbNALNSZaJAf44xRufgtOxaj uSsAn0Adbn6XYa9Calc+o/EHCSJfWBz9 =K9xQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

28 Mar 28 Mar

19:21

Lars Vogdt wrote:

...

On Fr 25 Mär 2011 19:45:46 CET Felix Miata wrote:

...
http://en.opensuse.org/MirrorBrain

Am I the only one in the US to find this to be more bad than good? Just about any time I use download.opensuse.org repos instead of a specific mirror for a lengthy dup, I find either slower than average download speeds, and/or find downloading halted by errors that do not self correct via retries.

The problem with US is not only that we miss some powerful mirrors in this region. We already discussed the possibility to have some "GeoIP based servers" hosting download.opensuse.org - but until now, our internet provider could not offer us some Nameservers that can handle requests based on the GeoIP of the requester. In a beautiful world, we would have: a) DNS servers pointing users to their closest incarnation of download.opensuse.org b) a lot of mirrors in the region which the redirector can redirect to

But isn't exactly what mirrorbrain is supposed to help do? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Bruno Friedmann

29 Mar 29 Mar

08:06

On 03/28/2011 09:21 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Lars Vogdt wrote:

...
On Fr 25 Mär 2011 19:45:46 CET Felix Miata wrote:

...
http://en.opensuse.org/MirrorBrain

Am I the only one in the US to find this to be more bad than good? Just about any time I use download.opensuse.org repos instead of a specific mirror for a lengthy dup, I find either slower than average download speeds, and/or find downloading halted by errors that do not self correct via retries.

The problem with US is not only that we miss some powerful mirrors in this region. We already discussed the possibility to have some "GeoIP based servers" hosting download.opensuse.org - but until now, our internet provider could not offer us some Nameservers that can handle requests based on the GeoIP of the requester. In a beautiful world, we would have: a) DNS servers pointing users to their closest incarnation of download.opensuse.org b) a lot of mirrors in the region which the redirector can redirect to

But isn't exactly what mirrorbrain is supposed to help do?

It should, but I've an interest in knowing what happen, basically if nscd is running one of it's job is to intercept hostnames requests and served them from it's cache. One time in US I was hit by this kind of bad/or slow mirror. Each time I try to zypper something the same was returned. rcnscd restart give me another address .... (sorry but I don't remember which ncd or unscd was installed at that time) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Michael Schroeder

08:30

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 09:21:09PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Lars Vogdt wrote:

...
The problem with US is not only that we miss some powerful mirrors in this region. We already discussed the possibility to have some "GeoIP based servers" hosting download.opensuse.org - but until now, our internet provider could not offer us some Nameservers that can handle requests based on the GeoIP of the requester. In a beautiful world, we would have: a) DNS servers pointing users to their closest incarnation of download.opensuse.org b) a lot of mirrors in the region which the redirector can redirect to

But isn't exactly what mirrorbrain is supposed to help do?

No, Lars is talking about having an US based mirrorbrain instance. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

09:25

Michael Schroeder wrote:

...

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 09:21:09PM +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

...
Lars Vogdt wrote:

...
The problem with US is not only that we miss some powerful mirrors in this region. We already discussed the possibility to have some "GeoIP based servers" hosting download.opensuse.org - but until now, our internet provider could not offer us some Nameservers that can handle requests based on the GeoIP of the requester. In a beautiful world, we would have: a) DNS servers pointing users to their closest incarnation of download.opensuse.org b) a lot of mirrors in the region which the redirector can redirect to

But isn't exactly what mirrorbrain is supposed to help do?

No, Lars is talking about having an US based mirrorbrain instance.

Ah, yes, that might make sense. Alternatively, how about a better connection/host for the current mirrorbrain? Wrt DNS, my company runs dns24.ch, we have no problem doing geoip-based dns views/zones. Please get in touch off-line if that could be helpful. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Rueckert

10:09

On 2011-03-29 11:25:50 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Ah, yes, that might make sense. Alternatively, how about a better connection/host for the current mirrorbrain?

the line of the current download.o.o machine is usually quite idle was we send away like 99% of the traffic to the mirrors. and it wont help with latency in the connect phase. the only thing that matters there is the distance to download.o.o. also the claim regarding dns caching and nscd is irrelevant. mirrorbrain uses the Location header to send you to mirrors. it is not done at DNS level. (at dns level we dont have access to the requested path.) darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

10:50

Marcus Rueckert wrote:

...

On 2011-03-29 11:25:50 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

...
Ah, yes, that might make sense. Alternatively, how about a better connection/host for the current mirrorbrain?

the line of the current download.o.o machine is usually quite idle was we send away like 99% of the traffic to the mirrors. and it wont help with latency in the connect phase. the only thing that matters there is the distance to download.o.o.

Hmm, so back to mirroring mirrorbrain then. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Rueckert

11:45

On 2011-03-29 12:50:04 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Hmm, so back to mirroring mirrorbrain then.

and static.opensuse.org because people often complain that the theme files load slowly for people outside europe. it is on the todo but not very high up atm. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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30 comments

13 participants

participants (13)

Anders Johansson
Bruno Friedmann
Carlos E. R.
Felix Miata
Jeff Mahoney
Ken Savage
Lars Vogdt
Marco Calistri
Marcus Rueckert
Michael Schroeder
Per Jessen
Ralf Lang
Tejas Guruswamy