[opensuse-factory] Tumbleweed installation topics with Snapshots 2018082x
Hi, I've not checked all bug-tracker itemes, so I don't know if this is new or known. Since many years (I don't remind well, but first version was 2.x), I use SuSE/openSUSE. Since some the beginning I use the Tumbleweed bild only with some small boot issues. Due to a HW upgrade, I used for installation the current tumbleweed builds (openSUSE-Tumbleweed-DVD-x86_64-Current.iso) with Snapshots 2017082x (x=2, 3, 5 if I remind well). So I've seen some issues during installation in all versions. My finding 1. Generation from bootable USB 3.0 memory device with ImageWriter was quite easy - but on the end, I can't see if this was well finished (closed without any remark - e.g. please remove device /dev/sdx - programming well finished) 2. Boot with EFI security works fine, but it starts as default in installation mode - from my point of view, it is better to wait unlimited - due to a longer installation, the reboot back in installation first step without any remark also confused me and I don't know if the installation was well done 3. If I switch the language on the first page to German (remark no German guy search "German" - all will search "Deutsch", so the sorting should be done with Deutsch/German - so an entering of D will switch in the correct region) Automatically, the keyboard layout will be selected as "Deutsch" - and if I test it in the offered field, it works fine. 4. After this, I changed the from my point of view to a better drive/partition mapping with encryption and using the more stable ext4 (due to full root drive issues more than 5 times in the past with the beta or buggy btrfs). But the main issue is, that I can enter a password e.g. with ä,ö,ü or simple y/z. If I test the correct entry also later in the user field - it works fine (due to the usage from correct German keyboard layout). 5. Selection from my unchanged preferred desktop KDE and installation - works still fine. Only in version from 20180822, also automatically the grub was switcht to password security (but not shown nicer in overview nor in configuration window). 6. After installation, the window is showing again the Language selection (reason also described in 2.). After a reboot without installation stick, grub requests a passwort => ok, after trail and error, I find out it is the same as used for the encryption key - and additional replacement from German keys with the English ones works. Same issue for sure in the partition encryption password field (sometimes this translation is no more so easy for me, so the last use of an English keyboard was for more than 40 years). After booting, the same behavior, Language and Formating was well switched but keyboard was still the English one. This can easily fixed with using yast and switching to a other one in Keyboard or Language menu and afterwords back to German (both works similar so I know after around 10 times of installation) After selection and test of the functionality of a well working Keyboard Language selection, also the Passwort entry works like expected with the typed characters like in installation. Remark: looks for me, like the keyboard layout settings was not correct copied to the installation 7. After reconfiguration of the installation (remove of the installation source - USB stick - and including of only online repositories and packman. The system works fine on my Intel NUC 7I7BNHX1 Intel Core i7 i7-7567U 2 x 3.5 GHz and 16GB Intel Optane™ M.2, which I have used as cache (after some crazy effects - I kicked it out and replaced it with a M.2 SSD 250 GB Samsung 960 EVO Retail MZ-V6E250BW PCIe 3.0 x4 and also kicked out my old 128GB Samsung 840 pro SSD MZ7pD128HCFV If the trouble with not correct working booting in all Snapshots and suspend trouble in version 20170823 remains, I let you know. Regards Ulf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/30/2017 08:44 AM, ub22@gmx.net wrote:
1. Generation from bootable USB 3.0 memory device with ImageWriter was quite easy - but on the end, I can't see if this was well finished (closed without any remark - e.g. please remove device /dev/sdx - programming well finished)
Is this "ImageWriter" in Windows or "ImageWriter" in opensuse? I used "ImageWriter" once (in opensuse), but it was long ago and I don't remember the details. I normally use "dd_rescue" from the command line. And when I see the prompt for the next command, I know it is safe to remove the USB.
2. Boot with EFI security works fine, but it starts as default in installation mode - from my point of view, it is better to wait unlimited - due to a longer installation, the reboot back in installation first step without any remark also confused me and I don't know if the installation was well done
This is very unclear (hard to follow). At one time, I had a computer that was configured with the USB as first in boot order. After installing, on reboot, I had to quickly unplug the USB, and perhaps do CTRL-ALT-DEL to start another reboot. Otherwise it would boot the installer again.
4. After this, I changed the from my point of view to a better drive/partition mapping with encryption and using the more stable ext4 (due to full root drive issues more than 5 times in the past with the beta or buggy btrfs). But the main issue is, that I can enter a password e.g. with ä,ö,ü or simple y/z. If I test the correct entry also later in the user field - it works fine (due to the usage from correct German keyboard layout).
My understanding is that it is best to use only standard ASCII characters for the encryption key, because it isn't always clear which alphabet is in used when prompted for the key.
5. Selection from my unchanged preferred desktop KDE and installation - works still fine. Only in version from 20180822, also automatically the grub was switcht to password security (but not shown nicer in overview nor in configuration window).
If you use encryption (such as an encrypted LVM), but do not use a separate unencrypted partition for "/boot", then grub will prompt for the encryption key so that it can read the boot menu. From your description, it looks as if this is what happened in your case. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Neil Rickert <nrickert@ameritech.net> wrote:
2. Boot with EFI security works fine, but it starts as default in installation mode - from my point of view, it is better to wait unlimited - due to a longer installation, the reboot back in installation first step without any remark also confused me and I don't know if the installation was well done
I think the default behavior has changed. IIRC, the install image, if booted from, always defaulted to booting from the hard disk. This made sense. At least to me. The change to defaulting to doing an install does lead to confusion: did the previous install fail and it wants to try again? Or? In what situation when, after doing an install and rebooting, would one want to repeat the install? -- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/31/2017 12:36 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
I think the default behavior has changed. IIRC, the install image, if booted from, always defaulted to booting from the hard disk. This made sense. At least to me.
With UEFI, there really is no such thing as "boot from the hard disk". It is supposed to be "boot from an identified operating system". There is a convention that a file of a certain name in "\EFI\Boot" (in the EFI partition) is to be treated as an identified system (and booting the installer depends on that). But it is unlikely that this would be the first system in priority for booting. But, of course, it depends on the UEFI firmware (or BIOS), and some systems come with weird UEFI implementations. The first menu entry when booting the install media in UEFI mode has always been to install, at least as far I can recall. That's different from booting the install media in MBR legacy booting mode.
The change to defaulting to doing an install does lead to confusion: did the previous install fail and it wants to try again? Or? In what situation when, after doing an install and rebooting, would one want to repeat the install?
If the UEFI firmware follows the specs, then it should boot the first EFI system -- first in boot order. And, if the install went correctly, that should be either "opensuse" or "opensuse-secureboot". And if the install failed, the first in boot order is probably Windows for most people. So booting into the installer on reboot is unusual and probably due to a poor UEFI implementation on that computer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, excuse my late answer.
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. August 2017 um 07:36 Uhr; Von: "Roger Oberholtzer"
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Neil Rickert <nrickert@ameritech.net> wrote:
2. Boot with EFI security works fine, but it starts as default in installation mode - from my point of view, it is better to wait unlimited - due to a longer installation, the reboot back in installation first step without any remark also confused me and I don't know if the installation was well done
I think the default behavior has changed. IIRC, the install image, if booted from, always defaulted to booting from the hard disk. This made sense. At least to me.
OK, that's fine for me.
The change to defaulting to doing an install does lead to confusion: did the previous install fail and it wants to try again? Or? In what situation when, after doing an install and rebooting, would one want to repeat the install?
Excuse my unclear description (English is not my preferred language). There are two scenarios: 1. The installation was well finished: The device reboots after the timer reach 0 and boots again the Installation device (if you was during this time away of the computer - you only see normally the Language selection page from Installation disk). 2. The installation fails and cause in a reboot: The PC boots again the Installation device (if you was during this time away of the computer - you only see normally the Language selection page from Installation disk). So independent if the installation was well done or there was an error, the final state is still the same. No chance to detect the installation error. especially if the boot from new installed system boots. -- ub22 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Neil, excuse my late answer - but my WebMailClient shows no threads :-/
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. August 2017 um 17:50 Uhr; Von: "Neil Rickert" On 08/30/2017 08:44 AM, ub22@gmx.net wrote:
1. Generation from bootable USB 3.0 memory device with ImageWriter was quite easy - but on the end, I can't see if this was well finished (closed without any remark - e.g. please remove device /dev/sdx - programming well finished)
Is this "ImageWriter" in Windows or "ImageWriter" in opensuse?
OpenSUSE
I used "ImageWriter" once (in opensuse), but it was long ago and I don't remember the details.
I normally use "dd_rescue" from the command line. And when I see the prompt for the next command, I know it is safe to remove the USB.
OK, but I only know the ImageWriter solution like described on Tumbleweed Portal. Standard dd seems to be not working (or I do something wrong)
2. Boot with EFI security works fine, but it starts as default in installation mode - from my point of view, it is better to wait unlimited - due to a longer installation, the reboot back in installation first step without any remark also confused me and I don't know if the installation was well done
This is very unclear (hard to follow).
At one time, I had a computer that was configured with the USB as first in boot order. After installing, on reboot, I had to quickly unplug the USB, and perhaps do CTRL-ALT-DEL to start another reboot. Otherwise it would boot the installer again.
Yes, this was the topic. But this is not the main cause. Its not nice, to automatic reboot (in the past this was needed, to continue the configuration. But with the newest versions, this was from my point of view finished before reboot. So it was only need to remove the reboot on the end of the well done installation.
4. After this, I changed the from my point of view to a better drive/partition mapping with encryption and using the more stable ext4 (due to full root drive issues more than 5 times in the past with the beta or buggy btrfs). But the main issue is, that I can enter a password e.g. with ä,ö,ü or simple y/z. If I test the correct entry also later in the user field - it works fine (due to the usage from correct German keyboard layout).
My understanding is that it is best to use only standard ASCII characters for the encryption key, because it isn't always clear which alphabet is in used when prompted for the key.
Yes, sure. But also ASCII characters like Z and Y are on different locations on an English or German keyboard (so Z is more often used in German like Y - vice versa in English), the keyboard designers in the past have exchanged the position :-/
5. Selection from my unchanged preferred desktop KDE and installation - works still fine. Only in version from 20180822, also automatically the grub was switcht to password security (but not shown nicer in overview nor in configuration window).
If you use encryption (such as an encrypted LVM), but do not use a separate unencrypted partition for "/boot", then grub will prompt for the encryption key so that it can read the boot menu. From your description, it looks as if this is what happened in your case.
No, afterwords it works fine (but I installed it only some times, so that I can't say this was guaranteed), but this is still working correct in the other versions 20180823 and 20180825. So no action needed from my point of view. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Wed, 30 Aug 2017 15:44:47 +0200 schrieb ub22@gmx.net:
6. After installation, the window is showing again the Language selection (reason also described in 2.). After a reboot without installation stick, grub requests a passwort => ok, after trail and error, I find out it is the same as used for the encryption key - and additional replacement from German keys with the English ones works. Same issue for sure in the partition encryption password field (sometimes this translation is no more so easy for me, so the last use of an English keyboard was for more than 40 years).
grub has no support for non-us keyboards. Hack your own grub as needed: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2016-05/msg00035.html
After booting, the same behavior, Language and Formating was well switched but keyboard was still the English one. This can easily
There is no QA for non-us locales: https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1042423 Olaf
Hi Olaf, thanks for fast replay :-)
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. August 2017 um 18:46 Uhr; Von: "Olaf Hering" Am Wed, 30 Aug 2017 15:44:47 +0200 schrieb ub22@gmx.net:
6. After installation, the window is showing again the Language selection (reason also described in 2.). After a reboot without installation stick, grub requests a passwort => ok, after trail and error, I find out it is the same as used for the encryption key - and additional replacement from German keys with the English ones works. Same issue for sure in the partition encryption password field (sometimes this translation is no more so easy for me, so the last use of an English keyboard was for more than 40 years).
grub has no support for non-us keyboards. Hack your own grub as needed:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2016-05/msg00035.html
The main thing, what I would say - I need no grub password - and don't enabled it. It was enabled like described without any selection :-/
After booting, the same behavior, Language and Formating was well switched but keyboard was still the English one. This can easily
There is no QA for non-us locales:
No deal - normally I don't need any grub protection, so with a booteable stick this can be overruled. Anyway on grub I would use an keyboard independent password. Main issue is the missing copy of the keyboard selection to the installation! Regards Ulf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Neil Rickert -
Olaf Hering -
Roger Oberholtzer -
ub22＠gmx.net