* Stephan Kulow [2012-09-25 15:06]:

On 25.09.2012 15:02, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

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* Andreas Jaeger [2012-09-25 14:48]:

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FYI,

a colleague of mine just did these changes: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think one of our oldest scripts in our SuSE Linux/SUSE Linux/openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise history is now finally gone: /sbin/SuSEconfig

R.I.P.

https://fate.suse.com/100011 https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/135139 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think we have fixed all the packages that used SuSEconfig and will blacklist it now in rpmlint,

It will certainly break SuSEconfig.glib2. Also why was this change even made, AFAICS this has not been discussed with the stakeholders and the rationale and discussion in FATE is non-public.

There is no discussion and the rationale is on features.opensuse.org visible for everyone - SuSEconfig is not called by rpm or zypper and never was. So if removing SuSEconfig breaks Suseconfig.glib2, it already is broken for every zypper dup / factory user.

It refreshes the mime associations using desktop-specific priorities so it is only interesting for desktop users who likely install packages using YaST which does run SuSEconfig. And I spent quite a bit of work rewriting this thing and getting support for this into glib just a few months ago. This script needs to run each time a .desktop file providing MimeType is installed by a package, how do you suggest to replace this functionality? -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:45:49PM +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

Am 25.09.2012 15:06, schrieb Stephan Kulow:

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...

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https://fate.suse.com/100011 https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/135139 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

...

There is no discussion and the rationale is on features.opensuse.org visible for everyone

"You are not allowed to access this service."

Please use https://features.openSUSE.org/100011 as somone else has written before. https://build.openSUSE.org/request/show/135139 is also accessible as unauthenticated user, All missing is a feature at build.openSUSE.org which generates (FATE#100011) to a clickable URL. That would be a nice enhancement to build.openSUSE.org Cheers, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

Quoting Stephan Kulow :

But sticking to guidelines is not everyone's style, so we see fate# in all kind of styles - but declining FATE# because the build service won't highlight sounds a bit strict too. So I leave that up to the review team.

I like strict :) Our packaging formalities should probably be split in two parts though: - Policies: mandatory to be followed. any deviation from this is a hard reason for a reject - Guidelines: a help for packagers to do things more effective. Deviation 'can' be allowed (should be minimal though). For this specific usecase though, it might be nice for the source checker script to highlight such things on checkin... having stuff declined is very 'disappointing' for many... especially if it's sthings that could be easily verified. Dominqiue -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Quoting Stephan Kulow :

The source_validator service you mean? The problem is two fold: if there are things like this FATE#10001 vs fate#10001, it's easy to detect and to fix -> then it's a job for format_spec_file (ok, the name might be problematic then :)

Right.. that's what I meant.. rewriting the 'known' ones to the 'known correct ones'. something like sed "s:fate#:fate#:I" We should probably come up with a full list of what kind of translations we want to do. but this should only happen on the 'diff' of the .changes (which can be the tricky part). Otherwise we keep on rewriting the history of all .changes (noble, but tough to review later on).

If it's not easy to detect, then it's not a job for a machine but to a human being.

Sure.. not all can be done automatic.. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 2012-09-26 11:49, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar wrote:

Quoting Stephan Kulow :

...

The source_validator service you mean? The problem is two fold: if there are things like this FATE#10001 vs fate#10001, it's easy to detect and to fix -> then it's a job for format_spec_file (ok, the name might be problematic then :)

Right.. that's what I meant.. rewriting the 'known' ones to the 'known correct ones'. something like sed "s:fate#:fate#:I"

That is too generic. You have to ensure that whatever you substitute is a comment - and parsing sh is not really something to like. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Le mardi 25 septembre 2012, à 15:02 +0200, Guido Berhoerster a écrit :

* Andreas Jaeger [2012-09-25 14:48]:

...

FYI,

a colleague of mine just did these changes: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think one of our oldest scripts in our SuSE Linux/SUSE Linux/openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise history is now finally gone: /sbin/SuSEconfig

R.I.P.

https://fate.suse.com/100011 https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/135139 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think we have fixed all the packages that used SuSEconfig and will blacklist it now in rpmlint,

It will certainly break SuSEconfig.glib2. Also why was this change even made, AFAICS this has not been discussed with the stakeholders and the rationale and discussion in FATE is non-public.

I guess we can move what SuSEconfig.glib2 is doing to the %desktop_database_post/%desktop_database_postun macros -- and hopefully there will be interest upstream in the work Stanislav has been doing to properly deal with this. Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Le mardi 25 septembre 2012, à 15:52 +0200, Guido Berhoerster a écrit :

* Vincent Untz [2012-09-25 15:32]:

...

I guess we can move what SuSEconfig.glib2 is doing to the %desktop_database_post/%desktop_database_postun macros -- and hopefully there will be interest upstream in the work Stanislav has been doing to properly deal with this.

Those macros are often not used by applications outside GNOME:* or X11:xfce, most notably the KDE packages don't seem to use that at all.

Well, yeah. I guess it's never too late to get the KDE packages fixed.

Also what exact fix are you planning, integrate the *-defaults.list generation into desktop-file-utils?

Yes. In the short term, by calling what SuSEconfig.glib2 is doing (in a new script, say /usr/bin/desktop-file-create-defaults.list) from the macros. In the long term, by having update-desktop-database do it itself (we still need a fix in upstream glib first :/) Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Le jeudi 27 septembre 2012, à 16:33 +0200, Christoph Obexer a écrit :

Am 25.09.2012 17:00, schrieb Vincent Untz:

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Le mardi 25 septembre 2012, à 15:52 +0200, Guido Berhoerster a écrit :

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* Vincent Untz [2012-09-25 15:32]:

...

I guess we can move what SuSEconfig.glib2 is doing to the %desktop_database_post/%desktop_database_postun macros -- and hopefully there will be interest upstream in the work Stanislav has been doing to properly deal with this. Those macros are often not used by applications outside GNOME:* or X11:xfce, most notably the KDE packages don't seem to use that at all. Well, yeah. I guess it's never too late to get the KDE packages fixed.

how about fixing this the way Mandriva/Mageia does/did instead of fixing every package?

https://wiki.mageia.org/en/RPM_filetriggers#gtk-icon-cache-hicolor_filetrigg... http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Rpm_filetriggers

Oh, I can't count the number of times we discussed this feature on opensuse-packaging :-) Yes, we nearly all agree that'd be cool; but we've been waiting for this to be properly integrated in upstream rpm. There's a collection feature that is similar to this nowadays, but it's still not exactly what we want (and needs some documentation). Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 00:05:07 Basil Chupin wrote:

On 25/09/12 22:48, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

FYI,

a colleague of mine just did these changes: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think one of our oldest scripts in our SuSE Linux/SUSE Linux/openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise history is now finally gone: /sbin/SuSEconfig

R.I.P.

https://fate.suse.com/100011 https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/135139 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think we have fixed all the packages that used SuSEconfig and will blacklist it now in rpmlint,

Andreas

I run zypper on my (desktop) system every day to install any patches and any updates to the system.

I then run SuSEconfig which I have always understood was needed to be run to update the database of installed software and version.

Are you saying that running SuSEconfig after zypper has never been necessary and that the advice given years ago to do so was wrong?

We're saying that you're the only one that remembers to run SuSEconfig manually ;) - and everybody else forgets about it. Therefore we want a solution that works for everybody in an automatic way - independend of which package manager you use... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:34:14 Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2012-09-26 10:02, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 00:05:07 Basil Chupin wrote:

We're saying that you're the only one that remembers to run SuSEconfig manually ;) I also remember to use it, but normally I simply use YOU, instead of zypper, and it calls SuSEconfig automatically.

...

- and everybody else forgets about it. Therefore we want a solution that works for everybody in an automatic way - independend of which package manager you use... Well, it is simple to code zypper so that it calls SuSEconfig, I don't see the problem... if you remove SuSEconfig and create something else, you still have to call that something else. The name is irrelevant, and many old-hands will remember the old name. Make at least SuSEconfig a symlink to the new script.

But not if you install manually with rpm... There's no need for a new script that you need to call since rpm packages will do it themselves now... The majority of packages has been changed already the last years ;) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 09/26/12, schrieb "Carlos E. R." :

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2012-09-26 10:37, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:34:14 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

But not if you install manually with rpm...

There's no need for a new script that you need to call since rpm packages will do it themselves now... The majority of packages has been changed already the last years ;)

What if the script or macros or whatever fails for some reason; the admin corrects the errors, and want to run it again. How? What do we run?

If it fails, it is a packaging bug ;-) Seriously, you can see the scripts with "rpm -q --scripts <packagename>", and most probably you will see the problematic command when the error message is thrown. You would have to do this anyway, as you would newer know if there is any script in the rpm postinstall that is called after SuSEconfig, but somehow depends on its outcome. Regards, Stefan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday, September 28, 2012 00:09:06 Basil Chupin wrote:

On 26/09/12 18:02, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 00:05:07 Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 25/09/12 22:48, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

FYI,

a colleague of mine just did these changes: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think one of our oldest scripts in our SuSE Linux/SUSE Linux/openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise history is now finally gone: /sbin/SuSEconfig

R.I.P.

https://fate.suse.com/100011 https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/135139 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think we have fixed all the packages that used SuSEconfig and will blacklist it now in rpmlint,

Andreas

I run zypper on my (desktop) system every day to install any patches and any updates to the system.

I then run SuSEconfig which I have always understood was needed to be run to update the database of installed software and version.

Are you saying that running SuSEconfig after zypper has never been necessary and that the advice given years ago to do so was wrong?

We're saying that you're the only one that remembers to run SuSEconfig manually ;) - and everybody else forgets about it. Therefore we want a solution that works for everybody in an automatic way - independend of which package manager you use...

Andreas

OK, thanks for the explanation.

But you also say, "...we want a solution that works......" indicating that this is in the "hoping to have it working at some future date" phase. Updates to programs now coming online for, say, 12.2 will have this new feature? I have some friends who do the same as me re SuSEconfig so I had better warn them about this and about the timing of the introduction of this new 'advancement'.

The migration away from SuSEconfig happened for some time already. It will be finished with 12.3, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Le 25/09/2012 17:02, DenverD a écrit :

On 09/25/2012 04:39 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2012-09-25 08:48 (GMT-0400) Andreas Jaeger composed:

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https://fate.suse.com/100011

I tried, but it tells me I'm not allowed to use this service.

+1 +1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Le mardi 25 septembre 2012 à 10:39 -0400, Felix Miata a écrit :

On 2012-09-25 08:48 (GMT-0400) Andreas Jaeger composed:

...

https://fate.suse.com/100011

I tried, but it tells me I'm not allowed to use this service.

And Andreas replied to his original mail one hour before your email, giving the correct url (in .opensuse.org).. -- Frederic Crozat SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Juan Erbes wrote:

2012/9/25 Andreas Jaeger :

...

FYI,

a colleague of mine just did these changes: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think one of our oldest scripts in our SuSE Linux/SUSE Linux/openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise history is now finally gone: /sbin/SuSEconfig

I have a problem with Opensuse 12.2. I installed the Catalyst driver for my ATI video card, and any time I made a update of the system which replaces a Mesa or Xorg package, the fglrx do'nt works right and I must reinstall it, forcing the uninstall and the new intallation, because some libraries from the driver was replaced with the update of the system.

How can I prevent this problem?

Juan, I had the same problem just a few days when I upgraded a desktop system to 12.2. My problem was the installed fglrx driver didn't compile with the newer kernel. I don't see any other option that upgrading manually to the nwest ATI/AMD driver. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-09-29 14:46, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

On Saturday 2012-09-29 14:05, Juan Erbes wrote:

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I have a problem with Opensuse 12.2. I installed the Catalyst driver for my ATI video card, and any time I made a update of the system which replaces a Mesa or Xorg package, the fglrx do'nt works right and I must reinstall it

Well fathom this: ATI/NVIDIA manual installers overwrite Mesa (idiotic!) *, so it's only natural that on Mesa update, Mesa is restored.

I don't see how this is related to SuSEconfig... this is a thread hijack. Please start a new thread. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlBm/KsACgkQIvFNjefEBxoFJACeIgu2xOkctCkPA9KiPAo26hFQ Q+cAn1EmUNdi9Zt1I4BtJf49OuF8C5v/ =qIiy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2012-09-29 at 13:26 -0300, Juan Erbes wrote:

...

...

Well fathom this: ATI/NVIDIA manual installers overwrite Mesa (idiotic!) *, so it's only natural that on Mesa update, Mesa is restored.

I don't see how this is related to SuSEconfig... this is a thread hijack. Please start a new thread.

- -- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

What a great contribution yours!

It has to do, because it affects the stability of the system and configuration!

You complain that others leave much text in their answers, and you write to say rubbish and crap!

Carlos is right: FACTORY mailing list discussed the FUTURE versions of openSUSE, currently being developed in openSUSE:Factory project, which will lead to openSUSE 12.3 (or whatever the name will be). /sbin/SuSEconfig will be removed in this version only. The fact that you mention issues on 12.2 clearly denotes that it is unrelated to the discussion and deserves a thread of it's own. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Juan On Sat, 2012-09-29 at 18:45 -0300, Juan Erbes wrote:

...

Carlos is right: FACTORY mailing list discussed the FUTURE versions of openSUSE, currently being developed in openSUSE:Factory project, which will lead to openSUSE 12.3 (or whatever the name will be).

/sbin/SuSEconfig will be removed in this version only. The fact that you mention issues on 12.2 clearly denotes that it is unrelated to the discussion and deserves a thread of it's own.

In what list are the developers that make the changes and fixes of Opensuse?

You might have realized that I *didn't* send you to another list, but merely stated that a new thread would have been in order. I'm aware of to few devs hanging around in the 'standard' channels and forums. And openSUSE 12.2 being rather new, a bunch of not-yet-discovered issues is not unlikely to shine up.

I am wrong in thinking that are here in this list?

Devs are here.. mostly discussing and working on openSUSE 12.3 at this moment...

Or I have to search the developers in the list opensuse Spanish, to tell it about the opensuse bugs?

Now You will say that record the bug in bugzilla surely! I could have done that, indeed. Usually, if it's a 'question', I do not recommend Bugzilla though.. the ML is perfectly suitable to check out some issues here and there and contributors might have tips to check.. IF it turns out to be a bug, it can still be filed, with sufficient

Do you really need a dev or an experienced user might give a hint too? Don't forget: DEV resources are scarce and distracting them from their actual work will postpone other things. details (collected in the thread). Best regards, Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org