[opensuse-factory] Should implement systemwide automounting
Since hal was deprecated each desktop tries to handle automounting itself. Where hal automatically mounted any removable devices, now each desktop does it in a separate and unique way and some desktops do not do at all. As Greg advises doing automounting through udev rules a bad idea. Without udev rules only a separate resident daemon can do automounting. udisks-glue was suggested in this context but it requites an extensive config file (an example can be seen here: http://www.calculate-linux.ru/blogs/show/214) The config file is not shipped with udisks-glue and no free third-party one is available. The config still calls udisks command-line utility that is dependent on udisks version (incompatible with udisks2). So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/03/31 06:09 (GMT+0400) Ilya Chernykh composed:
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue?
I don't know, but I find it highly annoying to switch from my main login to my 2nd or 3rd login on tty8 or tty9 and have to click away a few dozen what to do with this media windows. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 March 2012 06:22:30 Felix Miata wrote:
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue?
I don't know, but I find it highly annoying to switch from my main login to my 2nd or 3rd login on tty8 or tty9 and have to click away a few dozen what to do with this media windows.
Disable them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/03/31 06:24 (GMT+0400) Ilya Chernykh composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue?
I don't know, but I find it highly annoying to switch from my main login to my 2nd or 3rd login on tty8 or tty9 and have to click away a few dozen what to do with this media windows.
Disable them.
Disable what? Whichever desktop is active when I put a disk in should have that window open so I can answer what I want done with it. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 March 2012 06:43:45 Felix Miata wrote:
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue?
I don't know, but I find it highly annoying to switch from my main login to my 2nd or 3rd login on tty8 or tty9 and have to click away a few dozen what to do with this media windows.
Disable them.
Disable what? Whichever desktop is active when I put a disk in should have that window open so I can answer what I want done with it.
These popups can be disabled. Peripherals -> Storage media -> Advanced -> uncheck "Enable medium application autostart after mounting" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/03/31 07:07 (GMT+0400) Ilya Chernykh composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
but I find it highly annoying to switch from my main login to my 2nd or 3rd login on tty8 or tty9 and have to click away a few dozen what to do with this media windows.
Disable them.
Disable what? Whichever desktop is active when I put a disk in should have that window open so I can answer what I want done with it.
These popups can be disabled.
Peripherals -> Storage media -> Advanced -> uncheck "Enable medium application autostart after mounting"
Seriously? Who's going to remember or want to go through all that before each Ctrl-Alt-F[7-9] so that popups always happen only where they need to (on the foreground/active session)? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 March 2012 09:13:02 Felix Miata wrote:
Disable what? Whichever desktop is active when I put a disk in should have that window open so I can answer what I want done with it.
These popups can be disabled.
Peripherals -> Storage media -> Advanced -> uncheck "Enable medium application autostart after mounting"
Seriously? Who's going to remember or want to go through all that before each Ctrl-Alt-F[7-9] so that popups always happen only where they need to (on the foreground/active session)?
You do not need to disable it each time, only once. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/03/31 10:05 (GMT+0400) Ilya Chernykh composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Disable what? Whichever desktop is active when I put a disk in should have that window open so I can answer what I want done with it.
These popups can be disabled.
Peripherals -> Storage media -> Advanced -> uncheck "Enable medium application autostart after mounting"
Seriously? Who's going to remember or want to go through all that before each Ctrl-Alt-F[7-9] so that popups always happen only where they need to (on the foreground/active session)?
You do not need to disable it each time, only once.
I don't want it disabled in whichever session happens to be active when the medium is attached/inserted, only the non-active sessions. As you seem to have described, the only way now for that to happen is to enable each time a session is brought active, and disable each time a session is put to background, which (including remembering to do it) is more work than clicking off a random quantity of windows when bringing a session to foreground. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 March 2012 06:22:30 Felix Miata wrote:
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue?
I don't know, but I find it highly annoying to switch from my main login to my 2nd or 3rd login on tty8 or tty9 and have to click away a few dozen what to do with this media windows.
The problem is that currently auto-mounting in KDE3 is implemented via a devmon script that starts at session start. If a systemwide automounting was implemented, there would be no need to run residential daemons in each desktop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Saturday 31 March 2012 06:22:30 Felix Miata wrote:
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue? I don't know, but I find it highly annoying to switch from my main login to my 2nd or 3rd login on tty8 or tty9 and have to click away a few dozen what to do with this media windows.
The problem is that currently auto-mounting in KDE3 is implemented via a devmon script that starts at session start.
If a systemwide automounting was implemented, there would be no need to run residential daemons in each desktop.
---- Not to look behind the times, but autofs used to handle cddrives just fine, what changed? & Why? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 02.04.2012 22:01, schrieb Linda Walsh:
Not to look behind the times, but autofs used to handle cddrives just fine, what changed? & Why?
cddrives are hotplugged nowadays. Or at least they can be. -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com> wrote:
Since hal was deprecated each desktop tries to handle automounting itself. Where hal automatically mounted any removable devices, now each desktop does it in a separate and unique way and some desktops do not do at all.
As Greg advises doing automounting through udev rules a bad idea.
Without udev rules only a separate resident daemon can do automounting. udisks-glue was suggested in this context but it requites an extensive config file (an example can be seen here: http://www.calculate-linux.ru/blogs/show/214) The config file is not shipped with udisks-glue and no free third-party one is available.
The config still calls udisks command-line utility that is dependent on udisks version (incompatible with udisks2).
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue?
What is the advantage of handling it in a separate manner? All the major, maintained desktop environments seem to have no problem with automounting. So besides supporting old, almost unmaintained versions of desktop environments like KDE 3 and Gnome 2, what advantage would such a shared system have? -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:16:42 todd rme wrote:
The config still calls udisks command-line utility that is dependent on udisks version (incompatible with udisks2).
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue?
What is the advantage of handling it in a separate manner? All the major, maintained desktop environments seem to have no problem with automounting. So besides supporting old, almost unmaintained versions of desktop environments like KDE 3 and Gnome 2, what advantage would such a shared system have?
Not repeating the code in all places. Working in console where no DE is used. Working with all sessions that includes openbox, fwwm, simple X-Windows sessions like TWM. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:16:42 todd rme wrote:
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue?
What is the advantage of handling it in a separate manner? All the major, maintained desktop environments seem to have no problem with automounting. So besides supporting old, almost unmaintained versions of desktop environments like KDE 3 and Gnome 2, what advantage would such a shared system have?
Well is you want to win a competition against other desktop environments by forcing them to re-implement the same things and manage hardware by their own, your strategy of not implementing system-wide subsystems would have a reason. But only if you want to win by impeding development and function of other desktop environments. Currently KDE3 has a daemon that does auto-mounting. I think other desktops have a similar daemon. Implementing auto-mounting with udev rules will free the memory and processor cycles. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2012-04-01 at 14:16 +0200, todd rme wrote:
automounting. So besides supporting old, almost unmaintained versions of desktop environments like KDE 3 and Gnome 2, what advantage would such a shared system have?
Both G2 and KDE3 have it. Others may not, like console. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk94uaoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VJjgCgluW6bW2ZN7jdLLMzlHoFr9ph it8Ani9JIHxrAXiactE+gdA/rN3MoUGC =HpJz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
One thing that needs to be considered as well, there are times when users may not want the system to auto-mount inserted media. At work we use flash drives as bootable media and have various scripts that format the flash drive, install boot loaders, and untar an operating system image. They all fail horribly when the flash drive is auto-mounted. On older versions of suse it was a nightmare to make this stop as every time an fdisk finished, etc the disk would be re-detected and auto-mounted. If there is a system wide way of auto-mounting please make sure there is a system-wide way to make it stop! The current way that KDE4 handles it is excellent. I have an icon in the tray that says there is new media. If I want to use the media I click on it and it mounts. If I don't want it mounted I don't do anything and nothing happens. There are no annoying popups to close or anything else. Thanks On 03/30/2012 10:09 PM, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Since hal was deprecated each desktop tries to handle automounting itself. Where hal automatically mounted any removable devices, now each desktop does it in a separate and unique way and some desktops do not do at all.
As Greg advises doing automounting through udev rules a bad idea.
Without udev rules only a separate resident daemon can do automounting. udisks-glue was suggested in this context but it requites an extensive config file (an example can be seen here: http://www.calculate-linux.ru/blogs/show/214) The config file is not shipped with udisks-glue and no free third-party one is available.
The config still calls udisks command-line utility that is dependent on udisks version (incompatible with udisks2).
So what a solution is there foe USB and CD drives automounting? Should it remain a desktop-specific issue? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 April 2012 00:08:58 Tom Parker wrote:
At work we use flash drives as bootable media and have various scripts that format the flash drive, install boot loaders, and untar an operating system image. They all fail horribly when the flash drive is auto-mounted. On older versions of suse it was a nightmare to make this stop as every time an fdisk finished, etc the disk would be re-detected and auto-mounted.
If there is a system wide way of auto-mounting please make sure there is a system-wide way to make it stop!
Of course. The auto-mounting policy should be written in /etc/udev/rules.d/81-mount.rules An administrator can edit this file to disable auto-mounting. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 5:52 AM, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday 03 April 2012 00:08:58 Tom Parker wrote:
At work we use flash drives as bootable media and have various scripts that format the flash drive, install boot loaders, and untar an operating system image. They all fail horribly when the flash drive is auto-mounted. On older versions of suse it was a nightmare to make this stop as every time an fdisk finished, etc the disk would be re-detected and auto-mounted.
If there is a system wide way of auto-mounting please make sure there is a system-wide way to make it stop!
Of course. The auto-mounting policy should be written in /etc/udev/rules.d/81-mount.rules
An administrator can edit this file to disable auto-mounting.
What about users? You are saying users should have to manually edit udev rule files just to disable automounting? Especially when at least some desktop environments provide GUIs to control their own automounting already? You are talking about a massive feature regression just to remove a small daemon. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 April 2012 11:37:23 todd rme wrote:
If there is a system wide way of auto-mounting please make sure there is a system-wide way to make it stop!
Of course. The auto-mounting policy should be written in /etc/udev/rules.d/81-mount.rules
An administrator can edit this file to disable auto-mounting.
What about users? You are saying users should have to manually edit udev rule files just to disable automounting? Especially when at least some desktop environments provide GUIs to control their own automounting already? You are talking about a massive feature regression just to remove a small daemon.
No! Removing systemwide automounting is a major feature regression. Not all people use KDE or Gnome. They also use IceWM, OpenBox, Enlightenment, pure console and anything else. And they also want USB drives automounted. Not to say that functionality and consumed resources are doubled when automounting is handled by the desktop. Also note that udisks compatibility is not guaranteed between the releases and it is much easier to to change one place than multiple. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com>:
No! Removing systemwide automounting is a major feature regression.
Not all people use KDE or Gnome. They also use IceWM, OpenBox, Enlightenment, pure console and anything else. And they also want USB drives automounted.
Not to say that functionality and consumed resources are doubled when automounting is handled by the desktop.
Also note that udisks compatibility is not guaranteed between the releases and it is much easier to to change one place than multiple.
Ilya, from where I stand I see two solutions for you (I'm serious): 1) You ask udisks2 upstream developer to stop their efforts and invest their time in udisks1 or any other auto-mount solution you favor. Then you ask any other upstream project that switched so far to udisks two to change to your favorite automounter 2) We drop udisks2 in Factory in favor of whatever you choose as automounter. And YOU will personally take care that every piece of software we get from any random upstream works with the by you chosen automounter. If none of those options appeal to you, then PLEASE realize that even though not every decision does make sense to one individual, some others might see a sense in it. Apropos rewrite: been there done that! Sometimes you ust realize that the the architecture and design you chose at one point for your app/lib is simply not maintainable.. (see grub vs grub2 as an example). For further innovation, you have to be able to let go of the past. Step back, take a deep breath and don't try to be too self-defensive and quick-fingery when answering... you could as well type code snippets with the same amount of keystrokes, which would be a much better way of investing energy. Dominique / DimStar -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 04 April 2012 00:14:00 Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar wrote:
from where I stand I see two solutions for you (I'm serious): 1) You ask udisks2 upstream developer to stop their efforts and invest their time in udisks1 or any other auto-mount solution you favor. Then you ask any other upstream project that switched so far to udisks two to change to your favorite automounter 2) We drop udisks2 in Factory in favor of whatever you choose as automounter. And YOU will personally take care that every piece of software we get from any random upstream works with the by you chosen automounter.
udisks2 is not automounter, so why you wrote the above? Automounting feature ALREADY exists in udev. Udev is included in all openSUSE releases. What we have to do is just create an appropriate rules file. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Apr 04, 2012 at 12:40:24AM +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Wednesday 04 April 2012 00:14:00 Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar wrote:
from where I stand I see two solutions for you (I'm serious): 1) You ask udisks2 upstream developer to stop their efforts and invest their time in udisks1 or any other auto-mount solution you favor. Then you ask any other upstream project that switched so far to udisks two to change to your favorite automounter 2) We drop udisks2 in Factory in favor of whatever you choose as automounter. And YOU will personally take care that every piece of software we get from any random upstream works with the by you chosen automounter.
udisks2 is not automounter, so why you wrote the above?
Automounting feature ALREADY exists in udev. Udev is included in all openSUSE releases. What we have to do is just create an appropriate rules file.
Again, no, udev is not an automounter, you can only use udev to create a message that other programs pay attention to. Or, those programs use libudev to pay attention to the devices being added (which is preferable to having udev rule files.) So please don't think that udev is a solution here, it is merely a transport. greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 4/3/2012 5:19 PM, Greg KH wrote:
On Wed, Apr 04, 2012 at 12:40:24AM +0400, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Automounting feature ALREADY exists in udev. Udev is included in all openSUSE releases. What we have to do is just create an appropriate rules file.
Again, no, udev is not an automounter, you can only use udev to create a message that other programs pay attention to. Or, those programs use libudev to pay attention to the devices being added (which is preferable to having udev rule files.)
So please don't think that udev is a solution here, it is merely a transport.
http://awesome.naquadah.org/wiki/Automounting https://github.com/mgorny/uam Suggests otherwise. Surely the kde/gnome tools do more, for people running kde or gnome. Surely everyone else that isn't kde or gnome should be allowed to exist. These "Use a supported DE" (translate: "Use my preferred DE") answers are so offensive. It's about like how the majority of people ignorant of all IT issues don't care what you say about the predatory and parasitic nature of Microsoft and Apple and software licensing schemes and patent wars or RIAA/MPAA and DRM or governments and SOPA/ACTA etc etc etc as long as they can email cat pictures they just don't care about anything else. "I have a machine that runs kde effortlessly and I use kde and this works for kde and I never use anything else so I don't care about anything else. Oh and btw since my kde needs are met and I don't care about anything else, you all should stop talking about it because this list is for getting work done..." -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 April 2012, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar wrote:
Quoting Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com>:
No! Removing systemwide automounting is a major feature regression.
Not all people use KDE or Gnome. They also use IceWM, OpenBox, Enlightenment, pure console and anything else. And they also want USB drives automounted.
Not to say that functionality and consumed resources are doubled when automounting is handled by the desktop.
Also note that udisks compatibility is not guaranteed between the releases and it is much easier to to change one place than multiple.
Ilya,
from where I stand I see two solutions for you (I'm serious): 1) You ask udisks2 upstream developer to stop their efforts and invest their time in udisks1 or any other auto-mount solution you favor. Then you ask any other upstream project that switched so far to udisks two to change to your favorite automounter 2) We drop udisks2 in Factory in favor of whatever you choose as automounter. And YOU will personally take care that every piece of software we get from any random upstream works with the by you chosen automounter.
If none of those options appeal to you, then PLEASE realize that even though not every decision does make sense to one individual, some others might see a sense in it.
Just to add something. At our company 9 of 10 machines (both desktop and servers) are used by users without KDE or Gnome. AFAIR automounting removable media does not work since a few openSUSE versions allthough it worked in past. Netherveless I don't care much about automounting because IMO using removable medias is somewhat outdated. Since suse 8.x I always disabled automounting and gave users permissions to mount manually. However the mechanism has been changed every second suse version so I became tired of it and since 10.x I simply ignore the whole thing completely. Anyway would be nice to have a "systemwide automounting" with a promising future to be able to setup our systems properly again. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 31.03.2012 04:09, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Since hal was deprecated each desktop tries to handle automounting itself. Where hal automatically mounted any removable devices, now each desktop does it in a separate and unique way and some desktops do not do at all.
Hal didn't automount either, not since SUSE 9.X something at least. GNOME and KDE3 got callbacks and then triggered the mounting - just like they do today. Which gives users control over what they want to mount and how and when. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Brian K. White -
Carlos E. R. -
Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar -
Felix Miata -
Greg KH -
Ilya Chernykh -
Linda Walsh -
Ruediger Meier -
Stefan Seyfried -
Stephan Kulow -
todd rme -
Tom Parker