[opensuse-factory] Default exit mode of Yast-software-manager
Hi! In 11.1 the mode of exit for yast-software-manager upon the successful completion of installation was to exit without confirmation. I wanted to ask if for 11.2 this default could be changed to show the summary page instead, as it is much more useful/reassuring for a user to see this after a successful confirmation rather than the software-manager abruptly disappearing. Please note that I understand how to set this to be the exit mode of yast- software-management from /etc/sysconfigeditor in yast. I feel that showing the summary page, which is really nice btw, should be the default way in 11.2 Thanks -- Atri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Atri ha scritto:
Hi! In 11.1 the mode of exit for yast-software-manager upon the successful completion of installation was to exit without confirmation. I wanted to ask if for 11.2 this default could be changed to show the summary page instead, as it is much more useful/reassuring for a user to see this after a successful confirmation rather than the software-manager abruptly disappearing.
That has been filled as bug lots of time ago, but looks nobody really care. It looks like yast crasch. I agree that the question we had since suse 11.0 was annoyning but this kind on close is more. It should jest come back to "search" windows, as just open, as ANY OTHER package manager on other distros.
Please note that I understand how to set this to be the exit mode of yast- software-management from /etc/sysconfigeditor in yast. I feel that showing the summary page, which is really nice btw, should be the default way in 11.2
Thanks
How? i don't know that, i know only how to change the appereance between gtk/qt/ncurses. Andrea -- ------------------------------------------ Andrea Florio QSI International School of Brindisi Sys Admin openSUSE-Education Administrator openSUSE Official Member (anubisg1) Email: andrea@opensuse.org Packman Packaging Team Email: andrea@links2linux.de Web: http://packman.links2linux.org/ Cell: +39-328-7365667 ------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 06 October 2009 16:11:23 Andrea Florio wrote:
How? i don't know that, i know only how to change the appereance between gtk/qt/ncurses.
/etc/sysconfig/yast2 it is last entry in list ## Type: list(close,restart,summary) ## Default: "close" # Set the default behavior of the package manager when package # installation has finished. # Possible actions are: # close - just finish the package manager # restart - go back to the package manager, install/remove more packages # summary - display an installation summary dialog, there user can # decide whether to finish or restart # The summary dialog is always displayed when an installation error # has occured. PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT="summary" I agree that default should be to go back to main window, without further question. Current behavior is the same when package is installed correctly, when there is nothing to do and YaST exits, and when YaST crashes without message, while restart at least let you know that there was no crash. Option summary I have to test. -- Regards, Rajko People of openSUSE editor. Latest interviews: http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ About us: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----Original Message----- From: Rajko M. [mailto:rmatov101@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:15 AM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] Default exit mode of Yast-software-manager
On Tuesday 06 October 2009 16:11:23 Andrea Florio wrote:
How? i don't know that, i know only how to change the appereance between gtk/qt/ncurses.
/etc/sysconfig/yast2
it is last entry in list
## Type: list(close,restart,summary) ## Default: "close" # Set the default behavior of the package manager when package # installation has finished. # Possible actions are: # close - just finish the package manager # restart - go back to the package manager, install/remove more packages # summary - display an installation summary dialog, there user can # decide whether to finish or restart # The summary dialog is always displayed when an installation error # has occured. PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT="summary"
Or another way is open YaST2 -> System -> /etc/sysconfig Editor -> System -> YaST2 -> GUI -> PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_34Iv9JKPPhc/Sr-Gp5r307I/AAAAAAAAAIs/v2jr7H6cwAw/s1 600-h/snapshot5.png -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
Current behavior is the same when package is installed correctly, when there is nothing to do and YaST exits, and when YaST crashes without message, while restart at least let you know that there was no crash. Option summary I have to test.
The summary option is actually really nice, and I agree that it really should be the default, as it both offers to go back and install more as well as tell the user that everything was done fine, which is IMHO really preferable to not knowing in what state the process exited by just quitting. Robert kaiser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----Original Message----- From: Atri [mailto:badshah400@aim.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:22 PM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: [opensuse-factory] Default exit mode of Yast-software-manager
Hi! In 11.1 the mode of exit for yast-software-manager upon the successful completion of installation was to exit without confirmation. I wanted to ask if for 11.2 this default could be changed to show the summary page instead, as it is much more useful/reassuring for a user to see this after a successful confirmation rather than the software-manager abruptly disappearing.
I had the same request a time ago. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-07/msg00209.html -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 6.10.2009 21:21, Atri wrote:
Hi! In 11.1 the mode of exit for yast-software-manager upon the successful completion of installation was to exit without confirmation. I wanted to ask if for 11.2 this default could be changed to show the summary page instead, as it is much more useful/reassuring for a user to see this after a successful confirmation rather than the software-manager abruptly disappearing.
Please note that I understand how to set this to be the exit mode of yast- software-management from /etc/sysconfigeditor in yast. I feel that showing the summary page, which is really nice btw, should be the default way in 11.2
Or you can set the value in the ncurses (text mode) packager using "Configuration" -> "Action after Package Installation" menu item. (Thanks to Bubli!) Well, it's pretty hard to decide what should be the default. Many people complained when the behavior was changed, on the other hand I received many requests to change it. At the beginning the package manager was closed immediately after package installation. Some people didn't like it so the famous "Do you want to install more packages?" popup had been introduced. Some people were happy but some people complained that they don't like the change. So later the popup was removed and many people were happy, but again, I received many complains that the popup is missing. So what to do? How to make everybody happy? So I have introduced the sysconfig variable to make it configurable so everybody can set the preferred behavior. But I didn't change the default. Because I think it would be very confusing to have completely different behavior in three consecutive openSUSE releases, moreover the package manager now starts really fast... I'm not sure if this can be solved properly, too many people with different needs... IMO the only thing which is missing (or which should be improved) is GUI configuration in Qt and Gtk so users don't have to start the sysconfig editor and the setting would be more visible. (BTW I personally use "summary" mode, I can decide what to do after package installation and the installation overview is sometimes important for me.) -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Onsdag den 7. oktober 2009 13:43:43 skrev Ladislav Slezak:
Well, it's pretty hard to decide what should be the default. Many people complained when the behavior was changed, on the other hand I received many requests to change it.
I think the people wanting the package manager to magically and instantly disappear upon completion of any transaction, must have expressed their wishes off-list then. The only argument I remember for the magical disappearance of the package manager being presented here, is that it was somehow supposed to help people who remotely manage many machines - not really the target audience for openSUSE is it? Of course it's great that the behaviour is configurable, but imho the default should clearly be to somehow inform the user that the transaction was successfully completed, and let the user continue to do work. This is not only the beahaviour of all other gui package managers, but also any other applications - e.g. dolphin doesn't automatically shut down after I copy a file - because of an assumption that I can only want to perform one transaction and because restarting dolphin is pretty fast. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----Original Message----- From: Martin Schlander [mailto:martin.schlander@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 2:22 PM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] Default exit mode of Yast-software-manager
Of course it's great that the behaviour is configurable, but imho the default should clearly be to somehow inform the user that the transaction was successfully completed, and let the user continue to do work.
This is not only the beahaviour of all other gui package managers, but also any other applications - e.g. dolphin doesn't automatically shut down after I copy a file - because of an assumption that I can only want to perform one transaction and because restarting dolphin is pretty fast.
+1 -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schlander schrieb:
Onsdag den 7. oktober 2009 13:43:43 skrev Ladislav Slezak:
Well, it's pretty hard to decide what should be the default. Many people complained when the behavior was changed, on the other hand I received many requests to change it.
I think the people wanting the package manager to magically and instantly disappear upon completion of any transaction, must have expressed their wishes off-list then.
The only argument I remember for the magical disappearance of the package manager being presented here, is that it was somehow supposed to help people who remotely manage many machines - not really the target audience for openSUSE is it?
Of course it's great that the behaviour is configurable, but imho the default should clearly be to somehow inform the user that the transaction was successfully completed, and let the user continue to do work.
This is not only the beahaviour of all other gui package managers, but also any other applications - e.g. dolphin doesn't automatically shut down after I copy a file - because of an assumption that I can only want to perform one transaction and because restarting dolphin is pretty fast. +1
Scott W. Ambler: The feedback principle. Your design should keep users informed of actions or interpretations, changes of state or condition, and errors or exceptions that are relevant and of interest to the user through clear, concise, and unambiguous language familiar to users. (http://www.ambysoft.com/essays/userInterfaceDesign.html) Best regards Nico -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Ladislav Slezak wrote:
So later the popup was removed and many people were happy, but again, I received many complains that the popup is missing. So what to do? How to make everybody happy?
So I have introduced the sysconfig variable to make it configurable so everybody can set the preferred behavior.
But I didn't change the default. Because I think it would be very confusing to have completely different behavior in three consecutive openSUSE releases, moreover the package manager now starts really fast...
The popup going away was nothing I found bad, actually, but the summary is something I like much better than just closing. There's a real difference between the popup and the summary - while the popup was only ever useful if you wanted to install more packages, the summary is also useful to check if everything worked as expected and it's totally not in-your-face like a popup, but nicely just reuses the installer window. Because of all this, I think defaulting to the summary is very different to defaulting to the popup. All in all, I think many people who disliked the popup will actually like the summary, and that's why it probably should be the default after all. Robert Kaiser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi,
Please note that I understand how to set this to be the exit mode of yast- software-management from /etc/sysconfigeditor in yast. I feel that showing the summary page, which is really nice btw, should be the default way in 11.2
Or you can set the value in the ncurses (text mode) packager using "Configuration" -> "Action after Package Installation" menu item. (Thanks to Bubli!)
Yes I admit to be the guilty one ;-)
I'm not sure if this can be solved properly, too many people with different needs... IMO the only thing which is missing (or which should be improved) is GUI configuration in Qt and Gtk so users don't have to start the sysconfig editor and the setting would be more visible.
If anyone is willing to hack on that (== adding corresponding menu entry to Qt/Gtk packager) and contribute a patch for future 11.3 release, I'll be happy to help. Extending a menu is really simple for any Qt/Gtk baby programmer and you can steal the rest of functionality (reading/writing sysconfig) from ncurses-pkg code. Or (even better so) use some of the toolkit's own library functions for reading/writing ini-files (QSettings etc.) hB. -- \\\\\ Katarina Machalkova \\\\\\\__o YaST developer __\\\\\\\'/_ & hedgehog painter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 07 October 2009 17:13:43 Ladislav Slezak wrote:
Or you can set the value in the ncurses (text mode) packager using "Configuration" -> "Action after Package Installation" menu item. (Thanks to Bubli!)
Well, it's pretty hard to decide what should be the default. Many people complained when the behavior was changed, on the other hand I received many requests to change it.
At the beginning the package manager was closed immediately after package installation. Some people didn't like it so the famous "Do you want to install more packages?" popup had been introduced. Some people were happy but some people complained that they don't like the change.
So later the popup was removed and many people were happy, but again, I received many complains that the popup is missing. So what to do? How to make everybody happy?
So I have introduced the sysconfig variable to make it configurable so everybody can set the preferred behavior.
Well, that was before this summary page was available, and the option was then between the pop-up display and the current 11.1 mode. I think, more so with the overwhelming consensus in this ongoing ml discussion, that with the summary page now available it should be the default exit mode of the software- manager, and it will satisfy those who hated the earlier pop-up display as well.
But I didn't change the default. Because I think it would be very confusing to have completely different behavior in three consecutive openSUSE releases, moreover the package manager now starts really fast...
I have heard this argument about the package-manager being quite fast on start-up quite a few times since 11.1, and I have never understood it. As a normal user on Gnome (for example) when the software-manager installs stuff and then abruptly disappears, what am I supposed to do if I realise that there was one more small application that I have forgotten yet? I click on main-menu and click on install software. BUT, then I have to enter root password again! Sure, the software-manager now starts up quite fast, but I have to do two clicks (instead of one if the pop-up/summary-page exit methods were used) and fill in the root password. Makes the abrupt exit method look really nagging.
I'm not sure if this can be solved properly, too many people with different needs... IMO the only thing which is missing (or which should be improved) is GUI configuration in Qt and Gtk so users don't have to start the sysconfig editor and the setting would be more visible.
I believe the question of having a better default exit mode would exist even in 11.3, despite (if it is done) making the setting more visible. For 11.2, in the absence of such settings within the package-manager itself, it is all the more important that we have a default exit mode that works better than that in 11.1.
(BTW I personally use "summary" mode, I can decide what to do after package installation and the installation overview is sometimes important for me.)
I use it too, in fact this is one of the changes I do immediately after installing a Milestone release. So thanks a lot for this, but I think to a majority of openSUSE 11.2 users this very nice feature (the summary page) will be lost deep in the jungle of /etc/sysconfig variables where they will rarely venture, unless it is made the default.
--
Best Regards
Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/
Thanks -- Atri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
i just opened a feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307942 Il 07/10/2009 20:28, Atri ha scritto:
On Wednesday 07 October 2009 17:13:43 Ladislav Slezak wrote:
Or you can set the value in the ncurses (text mode) packager using "Configuration" -> "Action after Package Installation" menu item. (Thanks to Bubli!)
Well, it's pretty hard to decide what should be the default. Many people complained when the behavior was changed, on the other hand I received many requests to change it.
At the beginning the package manager was closed immediately after package installation. Some people didn't like it so the famous "Do you want to install more packages?" popup had been introduced. Some people were happy but some people complained that they don't like the change.
So later the popup was removed and many people were happy, but again, I received many complains that the popup is missing. So what to do? How to make everybody happy?
So I have introduced the sysconfig variable to make it configurable so everybody can set the preferred behavior.
Well, that was before this summary page was available, and the option was then between the pop-up display and the current 11.1 mode. I think, more so with the overwhelming consensus in this ongoing ml discussion, that with the summary page now available it should be the default exit mode of the software- manager, and it will satisfy those who hated the earlier pop-up display as well.
But I didn't change the default. Because I think it would be very confusing to have completely different behavior in three consecutive openSUSE releases, moreover the package manager now starts really fast...
I have heard this argument about the package-manager being quite fast on start-up quite a few times since 11.1, and I have never understood it. As a normal user on Gnome (for example) when the software-manager installs stuff and then abruptly disappears, what am I supposed to do if I realise that there was one more small application that I have forgotten yet? I click on main-menu and click on install software. BUT, then I have to enter root password again! Sure, the software-manager now starts up quite fast, but I have to do two clicks (instead of one if the pop-up/summary-page exit methods were used) and fill in the root password. Makes the abrupt exit method look really nagging.
I'm not sure if this can be solved properly, too many people with different needs... IMO the only thing which is missing (or which should be improved) is GUI configuration in Qt and Gtk so users don't have to start the sysconfig editor and the setting would be more visible.
I believe the question of having a better default exit mode would exist even in 11.3, despite (if it is done) making the setting more visible. For 11.2, in the absence of such settings within the package-manager itself, it is all the more important that we have a default exit mode that works better than that in 11.1.
(BTW I personally use "summary" mode, I can decide what to do after package installation and the installation overview is sometimes important for me.)
I use it too, in fact this is one of the changes I do immediately after installing a Milestone release. So thanks a lot for this, but I think to a majority of openSUSE 11.2 users this very nice feature (the summary page) will be lost deep in the jungle of /etc/sysconfig variables where they will rarely venture, unless it is made the default.
--
Best Regards
Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/
Thanks
-- ------------------------------------------ Andrea Florio QSI International School of Brindisi Sys Admin openSUSE-Education Administrator openSUSE Official Member (anubisg1) Email: andrea@opensuse.org Packman Packaging Team Email: andrea@links2linux.de Web: http://packman.links2linux.org/ Cell: +39-328-7365667 ------------------------------------------
On 10/06/2009 09:21 PM, Atri wrote:
Hi! In 11.1 the mode of exit for yast-software-manager upon the successful completion of installation was to exit without confirmation. I wanted to ask if for 11.2 this default could be changed to show the summary page instead, as it is much more useful/reassuring for a user to see this after a successful confirmation rather than the software-manager abruptly disappearing.
Please note that I understand how to set this to be the exit mode of yast- software-management from /etc/sysconfigeditor in yast. I feel that showing the summary page, which is really nice btw, should be the default way in 11.2
Thanks
It's even worse because if there is an error (see http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 ) the user doesn't know about it either, at least zypper warns if you have to skip a package which can't be downloaded but if there is an error, yast2 sw management needs to restart and zypper needs to refresh and verify otherwise the system could end up with broken dependencies. I opened the above bug /2008-10-03. /Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Andrea Florio -
Atri -
Dave Plater -
Katarina Machalkova -
Ladislav Slezak -
Martin Schlander -
Nicolaus Millin -
Rajko M. -
Rastislav Krupanský -
Robert Kaiser