[opensuse-factory] Czech Packagers Meeting minutes 2009-04-07
Czech Packagers Meeting minutes 2009-04-07 ========================================== Present: nadvornik, puzel, sbrabec, pgajdos, mseben, mhrusecky, anicka, mvyskocil Minutes: mhrusecky Topics: (1) Community Week (2) Dropped packages (3) Changelogs (4) Proposals pages (1) Community Week: =================== There is going to be held Community Week[1] (starting at 20th April). We should participate as mentors for packaging day. Help people with packaging and submitting to the Contrib. Maybe this opportunity can be also used by community members to clean up their home repositories. Ideas are already presented on wiki page[1]. [1] http://en.opensuse.org/Hackweek (2) Dropped packages: ===================== puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him. Other Interesting dropped package was bash-completion. But this one was dropped because of several serious bugs and poor support upstream so no easy solution for this package. (3) Changelogs: =============== mhrusecky is working on submiting new MySQL into factory. But this package was for a long time maintained in separate repository in BuildService and there was some changes in old package meantime. So there is a problem how to merge changelogs. Currently the easiest way seems to be to commit all changes in development branch as one changelog entry to the old changelog and replace old package with a new one. But this may occur more frequently with cooperation in BuildsSrvice so maybe it would be good idea to have some formal rules how to solve such situation. We also discussed results from discussion on mailing list about changelogs. Result from this discussion was that what we should write in changelogs is only packaging changes and leave a note where to find detail information about changes during package update. (4) Proposals pages: ==================== During discussion about changelogs mvyskocil mentioned that Fedora has some wiki pages with proposals/upcoming changes which are not official yet, so people can discuss these changes, everyone can read these proposal's and people can prepare for these changes. It may be a good idea to have something similar, especially with planned opening of factory. Status reports: =============== anicka: - openssh: investigate #489209 - cfengine: fix #487781 jmatejek: - removing python-numeric dependency from python-gtk - work on updating SUSE Studio support packages mhrusecky: - working on merging development version of MySQL with factory version - working on fixing some minor issues in development version of MySQL mseben: - audacity : submitted patch to fix build issues in factory (problems with linking against wxGTK) - audacity : submitted fix of bnc#477654 (missing expression in return) - doxygen : created patch for bnc#489947 (disabling build date in html footer) mvyskocil: - fixed bnc#492555: tomcat6+confluence wiki crashed under openjdk6 puzel: - closed #469337 - deb: dpkg --print-architecture prints empty string - fix #467332 for 11.1 - 467332 - Incomplete tools for Debian packages (deb) sbrabec: - pcsc-*, opensc, openct: Updated, modalias supplements, fixes (bnc#438131, bnc#474818, bnc#466430, bnc#304149, bnc#440853) - libusb-1_0, libusb-compat: Update. -- Michal Hrusecky Package Maintainer SUSE LINUX, s.r.o e-mail: mhrusecky@suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
(2) Dropped packages: =====================
puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him.
You could also take over maintainer ship in Factory of those. Johannes just has no time for them. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 17. April 2009 21:32:14 schrieb Marcus Meissner:
(2) Dropped packages: =====================
puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him.
You could also take over maintainer ship in Factory of those. Johannes just has no time for them.
Ciao, Marcus
To get a stronger focus on Contrib its maybe a good idea to have this packages there? Daniel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 09:32:14PM +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:
(2) Dropped packages: =====================
puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him.
You could also take over maintainer ship in Factory of those. Johannes just has no time for them.
Well, xsane is in Packman, so IMHO we don't need to bother about it. According to sane-frontends: yes, I could take maintainership in Factory, but as Daniel noted, having more packages in Contrib could attract more people to contributing. And there were many other packages moving from Factory to Contrib just because of this reason. -- Best regards / s pozdravem Petr Uzel, Packages maintainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: puzel@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 964 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Petr Uzel schrieb:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 09:32:14PM +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:
(2) Dropped packages: =====================
puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him. You could also take over maintainer ship in Factory of those. Johannes just has no time for them.
Well, xsane is in Packman, so IMHO we don't need to bother about it.
Probably I misunderstand but Packman is not the best option for xsane IMHO. Just having it in Packman doesn't make it obsolete in Factory. The first step I would like to see for dropped packages is moving them to Contrib. Just my two cents, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Petr Uzel wrote:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 09:32:14PM +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:
(2) Dropped packages: =====================
puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him.
You could also take over maintainer ship in Factory of those. Johannes just has no time for them.
Well, xsane is in Packman, so IMHO we don't need to bother about it.
Why is that? xsane is/was in openSUSE so no need for that.
According to sane-frontends: yes, I could take maintainership in Factory, but as Daniel noted, having more packages in Contrib could attract more people to contributing. And there were many other packages moving from Factory to Contrib just because of this reason.
That's ridiculous. We can't remove packages that provide basic functionality from Factory. We'll soon end up with a unusable distro if that trend continues. I wonder why there was no mail asking for a new maintainer anyways. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 02:31:50PM +0200, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Petr Uzel wrote:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 09:32:14PM +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:
(2) Dropped packages: =====================
puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him.
You could also take over maintainer ship in Factory of those. Johannes just has no time for them.
Well, xsane is in Packman, so IMHO we don't need to bother about it.
Why is that? xsane is/was in openSUSE so no need for that.
I have no idea why it is in Packman (but I guess it was there even before it was dropped from Factory). My intention was to 'save' those packages, so if some users really want to have them, they can get them without compiling/packaging on their own. Contrib was the way I choose.
According to sane-frontends: yes, I could take maintainership in Factory, but as Daniel noted, having more packages in Contrib could attract more people to contributing. And there were many other packages moving from Factory to Contrib just because of this reason.
That's ridiculous. We can't remove packages that provide basic functionality from Factory.
Neither of these packages provide basic functionality, AFAIK.
We'll soon end up with a unusable distro if that trend continues. I wonder why there was no mail asking for a new maintainer anyways.
-- Best regards / s pozdravem Petr Uzel, Packages maintainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: puzel@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 964 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Petr Uzel wrote:
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 02:31:50PM +0200, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Petr Uzel wrote:
According to sane-frontends: yes, I could take maintainership in Factory, but as Daniel noted, having more packages in Contrib could attract more people to contributing. And there were many other packages moving from Factory to Contrib just because of this reason.
That's ridiculous. We can't remove packages that provide basic functionality from Factory.
Neither of these packages provide basic functionality, AFAIK.
Well, reading images from the scanner into gimp is quite basic functionality if you own a scanner not only for decorative purposes :-) cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Petr Uzel wrote:
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 02:31:50PM +0200, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Petr Uzel wrote:
According to sane-frontends: yes, I could take maintainership in Factory, but as Daniel noted, having more packages in Contrib could attract more people to contributing. And there were many other packages moving from Factory to Contrib just because of this reason.
That's ridiculous. We can't remove packages that provide basic functionality from Factory.
Neither of these packages provide basic functionality, AFAIK.
Well, reading images from the scanner into gimp is quite basic functionality if you own a scanner not only for decorative purposes :-)
You are probably thinking of sane-backends, which is not dropped. Steffen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 20 April 2009 17:14:56 Steffen Winterfeldt wrote:
Well, reading images from the scanner into gimp is quite basic functionality if you own a scanner not only for decorative purposes :-)
You are probably thinking of sane-backends, which is not dropped.
Afaik gimp uses xsane as frontend to the backends. I dont know any reasonable alternative to xsane. Stefan -- Stefan Brüns / Bergstraße 21 / 52062 Aachen phone: +49 241 53809034 mobile: +49 151 50412019 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 05:14:56PM +0200, Steffen Winterfeldt wrote:
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Petr Uzel wrote:
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 02:31:50PM +0200, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Petr Uzel wrote:
According to sane-frontends: yes, I could take maintainership in Factory, but as Daniel noted, having more packages in Contrib could attract more people to contributing. And there were many other packages moving from Factory to Contrib just because of this reason.
That's ridiculous. We can't remove packages that provide basic functionality from Factory.
Neither of these packages provide basic functionality, AFAIK.
Well, reading images from the scanner into gimp is quite basic functionality if you own a scanner not only for decorative purposes :-)
You are probably thinking of sane-backends, which is not dropped.
I doubt it, the frontends package has the GIMP plugin. $ rpm -ql sane-frontends ... /usr/lib/gimp/2.0/plug-ins/xscanimage Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag 20 April 2009 schrieb Ludwig Nussel:
Petr Uzel wrote:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 09:32:14PM +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:
(2) Dropped packages: =====================
puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him.
You could also take over maintainer ship in Factory of those. Johannes just has no time for them.
Well, xsane is in Packman, so IMHO we don't need to bother about it.
Why is that? xsane is/was in openSUSE so no need for that.
According to sane-frontends: yes, I could take maintainership in Factory, but as Daniel noted, having more packages in Contrib could attract more people to contributing. And there were many other packages moving from Factory to Contrib just because of this reason.
That's ridiculous. We can't remove packages that provide basic functionality from Factory. We'll soon end up with a unusable distro if that trend continues. I wonder why there was no mail asking for a new maintainer anyways.
See the huge list of replies under "This Thread": http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-02/msg00073.html Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello, On Apr 20 15:01 Stephan Kulow wrote (shortened):
Am Montag 20 April 2009 schrieb Ludwig Nussel:
Petr Uzel wrote:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 09:32:14PM +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:
(2) Dropped packages: =====================
puzel told us about packages dropped from Factory. One really interesting group of packages dropped was xsane and sane frontends. We all agreed that these packages are really useful and should maintained somewhere. So puzel proposed that he would maintain it in Contrib and if he'll encounter any problems he wouldn't have time to solve, we will help him.
You could also take over maintainer ship in Factory of those. Johannes just has no time for them.
Well, xsane is in Packman, so IMHO we don't need to bother about it.
Why is that? xsane is/was in openSUSE so no need for that.
According to sane-frontends: yes, I could take maintainership in Factory, but as Daniel noted, having more packages in Contrib could attract more people to contributing. And there were many other packages moving from Factory to Contrib just because of this reason.
That's ridiculous. We can't remove packages that provide basic functionality from Factory.
Neither sane-frontends nor xsane provide _basic_ functionality (where basic means that something else is based upon them) because no other package requires one of those packages, see the URLs to my mails below. Of course sane-frontends and xsane provide functionality which is important for a "desktop" end-user. There is the question whether or not Novell/Suse must provide all applications which provide functionality which is important for an end-user. Perhaps only sane-frontends directly in openSUSE is sufficient and xsane could be provided via a "third-party" repository?
We'll soon end up with a unusable distro if that trend continues. I wonder why there was no mail asking for a new maintainer anyways.
See the huge list of replies under "This Thread": http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-02/msg00073.html
And the same "huge" list of replies under http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-02/msg00074.html After I sent both mails, I waited one week for any reply before I submitted my drop requests for Factory. Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Johannes Meixner wrote:
Perhaps only sane-frontends directly in openSUSE is sufficient and xsane could be provided via a "third-party" repository?
Meanwhile I've talked to Manfred Tremmel wo maintains xsane on Packman. He does not seem to have a particular interest in maintaining xsane either. It's there only for historical reasons. So the argument "it's at Packman" counts even less. Since I need xsane personally I'd undrop it and act as maintainer. The xsane home page mentions potential incompatibilities with newer sane versions though. Resolving those has to happen upstream. I hope you're not going to upgrade sane-backends until such issues are fixed.
After I sent both mails, I waited one week for any reply before I submitted my drop requests for Factory.
I must have missed those in the noise. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 21 April 2009 10:16:46 Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Johannes Meixner wrote:
Perhaps only sane-frontends directly in openSUSE is sufficient and xsane could be provided via a "third-party" repository?
Meanwhile I've talked to Manfred Tremmel wo maintains xsane on Packman. He does not seem to have a particular interest in maintaining xsane either. It's there only for historical reasons. So the argument "it's at Packman" counts even less. Since I need xsane personally I'd undrop it and act as maintainer. The xsane home page mentions potential incompatibilities with newer sane versions though. Resolving those has to happen upstream. I hope you're not going to upgrade sane-backends until such issues are fixed.
The maintainers of sane-be seem to be aware of the problems the planned changes will introduce (which are needed an will have to be done anyways), so the changes are postponed for after the 1.0.20 release, as far as I can see. This has been discussed on the sane-be mailing list. Stefan -- Stefan Brüns / Bergstraße 21 / 52062 Aachen phone: +49 241 53809034 mobile: +49 151 50412019 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 09:14:27PM +0200, Michal Hrusecky wrote: [ 8< ]
(3) Changelogs: ===============
mhrusecky is working on submiting new MySQL into factory. But this package was for a long time maintained in separate repository in BuildService and there was some changes in old package meantime. So there is a problem how to merge changelogs. Currently the easiest way seems to be to commit all changes in development branch as one changelog entry to the old changelog and replace old package with a new one. But this may occur more frequently with cooperation in BuildsSrvice so maybe it would be good idea to have some formal rules how to solve such situation.
We also discussed results from discussion on mailing list about changelogs. Result from this discussion was that what we should write in changelogs is only packaging changes and leave a note where to find detail information about changes during package update.
From the Samba point of view we see the package change log as a strictly monotonic increasing file. Any missing change log hunks might cause questions by the users after an update like "Have they not merged the older fix to this version?". Think of rpm -q --changelog <package name> >changelog.old <zypper|yast|yum|smart package update action> rpm -q --changelog <package name> >changelog.new In this example case the "diff -u changelog.old changelog.new" should only show additions (+) and no removal (-) of single change log lines. Having this in mind we sometime add the same change log lines to network:samba:TESTING as we did before to network:samba:STABLE without any actual code change to network:samba:TESTING. The particular fix might already be in there or the issue got fixed different. Having a common and unique approach on this is a very good idea! Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Michal Hrusecky - 21:14 17.04.09 wrote:
There is going to be held Community Week[1] (starting at 20th April). We
I'm sorry, I wrote wrong date, Community Week is going to be held from May 11 to 17. It's written on the wiki[1] mentioned in report. Thanks Stephan Binner for pointing this out. [1] http://en.opensuse.org/CommunityWeek -- Michal Hrusecky Package Maintainer SUSE LINUX, s.r.o e-mail: mhrusecky@suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (11)
-
Daniel Fuhrmann -
Johannes Meixner -
Lars Müller -
Ludwig Nussel -
Marcus Meissner -
Michal Hrusecky -
Petr Uzel -
Stefan Bruens -
Steffen Winterfeldt -
Stephan Kulow -
Wolfgang Rosenauer