[opensuse-factory] what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4. (was: udisks2)
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:29, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application.
Errr... you can to that just fine in Dolphin (Konqueror's replacement in KDE4). Either click Preview in the toolbar or set it to Preview mode by default. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
C wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:29, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application.
Errr... you can to that just fine in Dolphin (Konqueror's replacement in KDE4). Either click Preview in the toolbar or set it to Preview mode by default.
Sure, the preview works fine, but when I click on a picture, it opens Gwenview (presumably the default). In Konqueror in KDE3, the picture is just shown in the Konq window. Faster and less interruptive. Something similar goes for PDFs by the way. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.5°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 30 March 2012 09:57, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Sure, the preview works fine, but when I click on a picture, it opens Gwenview (presumably the default). In Konqueror in KDE3, the picture is just shown in the Konq window. Faster and less interruptive. Something similar goes for PDFs by the way.
In Konqueror in KDE4, the picture is just shown in the Konq window. Faster and less interruptive. Something similar goes for PDFs by the way. Konqueror vs Dolphin as file browser is different to KDE3 vs KDE4. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 30/03/12 19:57, Per Jessen wrote:
C wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:29, Per Jessen<per@computer.org> wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer. Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4. Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application. Errr... you can to that just fine in Dolphin (Konqueror's replacement in KDE4). Either click Preview in the toolbar or set it to Preview mode by default. Sure, the preview works fine, but when I click on a picture, it opens Gwenview (presumably the default). In Konqueror in KDE3, the picture is just shown in the Konq window. Faster and less interruptive. Something similar goes for PDFs by the way.
Umm, Kickoff>System Settings>Default Applications, select your choice of File Manager. And, gosh! Konqueror is there for selection! :-) . BC -- Why isn't there mouse-flavoured cat food? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
C wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:29, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application.
Errr... you can to that just fine in Dolphin (Konqueror's replacement in KDE4). Either click Preview in the toolbar or set it to Preview mode by default.
Sure, the preview works fine, but when I click on a picture, it opens Gwenview (presumably the default). In Konqueror in KDE3, the picture is just shown in the Konq window. Faster and less interruptive. Something similar goes for PDFs by the way.
On my system, with konqueror with KDE 4, I click on an image and it opens in the konqueror window, and I am pretty sure that is the default. PDFs by default don't, but it takes about 5 seconds to change. In konqueror -> settings -> configure konqueror -> file management -> file associations, search for pdf, and select the "embedding" tab, and select "show file in embedded viewer". For images, just click on the "image" group and select "show file in embedded viewer". If a particular image file type is not working, make sure its "embedding" settings is set to "Use settings for the 'image' group". -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
todd rme wrote:
On my system, with konqueror with KDE 4, I click on an image and it opens in the konqueror window, and I am pretty sure that is the default.
You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. It's Dolphin that is a bit awkward, not Konqueror. I'd tried switching to Dolphin as that was the new default.
PDFs by default don't, but it takes about 5 seconds to change. In konqueror -> settings -> configure konqueror -> file management -> file associations, search for pdf, and select the "embedding" tab, and select "show file in embedded viewer". For images, just click on the "image" group and select "show file in embedded viewer". If a particular image file type is not working, make sure its "embedding" settings is set to "Use settings for the 'image' group".
Thanks! -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 March 2012 11:18:08 Per Jessen wrote:
todd rme wrote:
On my system, with konqueror with KDE 4, I click on an image and it opens in the konqueror window, and I am pretty sure that is the default.
You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. It's Dolphin that is a bit awkward, not Konqueror. I'd tried switching to Dolphin as that was the new default.
It's what you're used too. The old Konqi is meant to be a swiss army knife - doing lots of things reasonably well. Dolphin aims to be a Filemanager and do THAT really really well, leaving other things to other apps. I moved over to dolphin but you triggered me to try Konqi again. I must say the 'old way' still feels nice and familiar. Wouldn't be able to say what is more useful, except that the embedded gwenview doesn't have all the modification options etc etc that are in the full one. Then again, if you embed everything in Konqi, what's the point of having window management :D
PDFs by default don't, but it takes about 5 seconds to change. In konqueror -> settings -> configure konqueror -> file management -> file associations, search for pdf, and select the "embedding" tab, and select "show file in embedded viewer". For images, just click on the "image" group and select "show file in embedded viewer". If a particular image file type is not working, make sure its "embedding" settings is set to "Use settings for the 'image' group".
Thanks!
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:15:43 +0530, Jos Poortvliet <jos@opensuse.org> wrote:
On Friday 30 March 2012 11:18:08 Per Jessen wrote:
todd rme wrote:
On my system, with konqueror with KDE 4, I click on an image and it opens in the konqueror window, and I am pretty sure that is the default.
You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. It's Dolphin that is a bit awkward, not Konqueror. I'd tried switching to Dolphin as that was the new default.
It's what you're used too. The old Konqi is meant to be a swiss army knife - doing lots of things reasonably well. Dolphin aims to be a Filemanager and do THAT really really well, leaving other things to other apps.
I moved over to dolphin but you triggered me to try Konqi again. I must say the 'old way' still feels nice and familiar. Wouldn't be able to say what is more useful, except that the embedded gwenview doesn't have all the modification options etc etc that are in the full one.
Then again, if you embed everything in Konqi, what's the point of having window management :D
i tried to get used to dolphin, but failed. fortunately konqueror is still pretty much of a 'swiss army knife,' even under KDE4, and i hope it won't be stripped down ... to be what exactly? the ideal web browser? having my doubts there... -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 March 2012 16:45:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. It's Dolphin that is a bit awkward, not Konqueror. I'd tried switching to Dolphin as that was the new default.
It's what you're used too. The old Konqi is meant to be a swiss army knife - doing lots of things reasonably well. Dolphin aims to be a Filemanager and do THAT really really well, leaving other things to other apps.
No. Dolphin does not provide even the basic functionality for file management. I would well support an idea of separating the file manager and browser like in Nautilus and Windows Explorer, but if the file manager remains fully functional and not such a thumb like Dolphin is. It is definitely not a universal file manager, at best a narrow-purpose one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 March 2012 18.52:31 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Saturday 31 March 2012 16:45:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. It's Dolphin that is a bit awkward, not Konqueror. I'd tried switching to Dolphin as that was the new default.
It's what you're used too. The old Konqi is meant to be a swiss army knife - doing lots of things reasonably well. Dolphin aims to be a Filemanager and do THAT really really well, leaving other things to other apps.
No. Dolphin does not provide even the basic functionality for file management.
I would well support an idea of separating the file manager and browser like in Nautilus and Windows Explorer, but if the file manager remains fully functional and not such a thumb like Dolphin is.
Ilya, if you want some kind of respect to your work on kde3, Please take time to shut-up and forget your reply button during on week. Again you give a feeling no proof nothing. so just shut-up, and forget to reply.
It is definitely not a universal file manager, at best a narrow-purpose one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-04-01 09:53, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
Ilya, if you want some kind of respect to your work on kde3,
Please take time to shut-up and forget your reply button during on week.
That goes both sides. No more criticizing why kde3 is maintained and kept in the official distro. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk94JQ4ACgkQIvFNjefEBxoRGACdHE+kJRnL6wRXlE2x4r1D7Wud T9sAoLBHV4wGw+3inOzQIujKCcSR/RNl =DuZC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 April 2012 11:53:02 Bruno Friedmann wrote:
No. Dolphin does not provide even the basic functionality for file management.
I would well support an idea of separating the file manager and browser like in Nautilus and Windows Explorer, but if the file manager remains fully functional and not such a thumb like Dolphin is.
Ilya, if you want some kind of respect to your work on kde3,
Please take time to shut-up and forget your reply button during on week.
Again you give a feeling no proof nothing. so just shut-up, and forget to reply.
I suggest those who attack kde3 fo shut-up first. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 15:31:24 +0530, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday 01 April 2012 11:53:02 Bruno Friedmann wrote:
No. Dolphin does not provide even the basic functionality for file management.
I would well support an idea of separating the file manager and browser like in Nautilus and Windows Explorer, but if the file manager remains fully functional and not such a thumb like Dolphin is.
Ilya, if you want some kind of respect to your work on kde3,
Please take time to shut-up and forget your reply button during on week.
Again you give a feeling no proof nothing. so just shut-up, and forget to reply.
I suggest those who attack kde3 fo shut-up first.
please go on, by all means! doesn't bother me in the least, since i'm "ignoring" this thread now. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 4/1/2012 3:53 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
Ilya, if you want some kind of respect to your work on kde3,
Please take time to shut-up and forget your reply button during on week.
Again you give a feeling no proof nothing. so just shut-up, and forget to reply.
Now that is a post that earns respect. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 02.04.2012 23:59, Brian K. White wrote:
On 4/1/2012 3:53 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
Ilya, if you want some kind of respect to your work on kde3,
Please take time to shut-up and forget your reply button during on week.
Again you give a feeling no proof nothing. so just shut-up, and forget to reply.
Now that is a post that earns respect.
totally. I still don't know why to discuss KDE3 vs KDE4 again. Yeah, maybe it's fun, maybe it's a boring saturday, anyway, could we get rid of this? Ilya is maintaining KDE3 because he wants to use it and others too. My respect for that. Great work man! Others use KDE 4 and are happy with it, so where's the problem with keeping both, or am I missing the point? I mean, wasn't openSUSE all about choice? Choice means diversity. That's it, right? have a lot of fun... --kdl -- With the lights out, it's less dangerous -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 4/7/2012 1:14 PM, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
On 02.04.2012 23:59, Brian K. White wrote:
On 4/1/2012 3:53 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
Ilya, if you want some kind of respect to your work on kde3,
Please take time to shut-up and forget your reply button during on week.
Again you give a feeling no proof nothing. so just shut-up, and forget to reply.
Now that is a post that earns respect.
totally.
I still don't know why to discuss KDE3 vs KDE4 again. Yeah, maybe it's fun, maybe it's a boring saturday, anyway, could we get rid of this?
Ilya is maintaining KDE3 because he wants to use it and others too. My respect for that. Great work man! Others use KDE 4 and are happy with it, so where's the problem with keeping both, or am I missing the point? I mean, wasn't openSUSE all about choice? Choice means diversity.
That's it, right?
have a lot of fun... --kdl
The point was some intolerant selfish ignoramus(es) that can't bear to see the build service workers building kde3 instead of building stuff _they_ want a little faster. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 07 Apr 2012 15:54:53 Brian K. White wrote:
The point was some intolerant selfish ignoramus(es) that can't bear to see the build service workers building kde3 instead of building stuff they want a little faster.
Brian that's wonderful. Nothing better than using our limited resources to build the same blobs for the 1000th time. Long live KDE3. Ignoramus is quite the descriptive word and I am personally glad we can open up the discussion. The corollary, of course, is that since you have been so kind to open the depate I would offer you the chance to make an opening statment. I think it's wonderful that those who already have the taint of hypocrisy have a chance to make their case. Cheers the noo, Graham
On 04/08/2012 06:31 PM, Graham Anderson wrote:
On Saturday 07 Apr 2012 15:54:53 Brian K. White wrote:
The point was some intolerant selfish ignoramus(es) that can't bear to see the build service workers building kde3 instead of building stuff they want a little faster.
Brian that's wonderful. Nothing better than using our limited resources to build the same blobs for the 1000th time. Long live KDE3.
Ignoramus is quite the descriptive word and I am personally glad we can open up the discussion. The corollary, of course, is that since you have been so kind to open the depate I would offer you the chance to make an opening statment. I think it's wonderful that those who already have the taint of hypocrisy have a chance to make their case.
Cheers the noo, Graham
Please stop this thread. It is not very productive and again, it is crowding out more useful discussion. Thanks, Peter Linnell openSUSE Board Member -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Brian that's wonderful. Nothing better than using our limited resources to build the same blobs for the 1000th time. Long live KDE3.
Ignoramus is quite the descriptive word and I am personally glad we can open up the discussion. The corollary, of course, is that since you have been so kind to open the depate I would offer you the chance to make an opening statment. I think it's wonderful that those who already have the taint of hypocrisy have a chance to make their case.
I am very much disappointed with the unfriendly tone prevailing in this mailing list. Can our community undertake efforts to make the discussions more friendly? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-04-07 19:14, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
it, so where's the problem with keeping both, or am I missing the point? I mean, wasn't openSUSE all about choice? Choice means diversity.
Absolutely :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk+ArIkACgkQIvFNjefEBxqaqACfc06trtYI0usEJUVqGNnW9EhI 4zkAn0jOpJzeBYJOFCdtjagfJL7mH6E4 =nTiu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 March 2012 18:52:31 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Saturday 31 March 2012 16:45:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. It's Dolphin that is a bit awkward, not Konqueror. I'd tried switching to Dolphin as that was the new default.
It's what you're used too. The old Konqi is meant to be a swiss army knife - doing lots of things reasonably well. Dolphin aims to be a Filemanager and do THAT really really well, leaving other things to other apps.
No. Dolphin does not provide even the basic functionality for file management.
I would well support an idea of separating the file manager and browser like in Nautilus and Windows Explorer, but if the file manager remains fully functional and not such a thumb like Dolphin is.
It is definitely not a universal file manager, at best a narrow-purpose one.
But it beats the old Konqi any time. That one didn't have the + overlay, had no grouping, had no rating and tagging and the location bar was that old, stupid text-entry instead of a nice bar it is now. And there was no proper git or svn integration either. Face it, Dolphin can do lots of useful things Konqi couldn't. It misses two things: arbitrary splitting of the screen (only useful to demo people what crazy shit it can do) and spatial browsing (which is so braindead even Apple and GNOME gave up on it). Bang, Konqi lost the feature shoot-out. Just like KMail does. And Konsole. And Gwenview. And Kate. And KWrite. Sorry, but KDE 3 doesn't match up to 4 in terms of features. The apps might not look as cluttered as but they have more functionality.
On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 15:27:54 +0530, Jos Poortvliet <jos@opensuse.org> wrote:
It misses two things: arbitrary splitting of the screen (only useful to demo people what crazy shit it can do)
i find this feature very useful, for copying or moving things between different locations, local and remote. but it's not a reason to stick with KDE3 konqueror, since it's available in KDE4. i was using KDE3 konqueror for a while, during the earlier KDE4 stages, when fish:/ protocol didn't work on KDE4, but that's history. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
phanisvara das wrote:
On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 15:27:54 +0530, Jos Poortvliet <jos@opensuse.org> wrote:
It misses two things: arbitrary splitting of the screen (only useful to demo people what crazy shit it can do)
i find this feature very useful, for copying or moving things between different locations, local and remote. but it's not a reason to stick with KDE3 konqueror, since it's available in KDE4. i was using KDE3 konqueror for a while, during the earlier KDE4 stages, when fish:/ protocol didn't work on KDE4, but that's history.
I have also often used that split Window. Another thing I miss is when I click on the Menu button, at the left end of the bar, I used to be able to type / and the name of what I wanted. I would then be taken to the location in the menu where that item could be found. That no longer works on KDE4 with the classic menu. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 1. April 2012, 07:43:46 schrieb James Knott:
phanisvara das wrote:
i find this feature very useful, for copying or moving things between different locations, local and remote. but it's not a reason to stick with KDE3 konqueror, since it's available in KDE4. i was using KDE3 konqueror for a while, during the earlier KDE4 stages, when fish:/ protocol didn't work on KDE4, but that's history.
I have also often used that split Window.
Split window was always available. Just splitting it into more than tow halves not. So copying from A to B, from local to remote etc. is still possible.
Another thing I miss is when I click on the Menu button, at the left end of the bar, I used to be able to type / and the name of what I wanted. I would then be taken to the location in the menu where that item could be found. That no longer works on KDE4 with the classic menu.
The classic menu is just a left-over. It works with the standard menu. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 17:43:25 +0530, Sven Burmeister <sven.burmeister@gmx.net> wrote:
Split window was always available. Just splitting it into more than tow halves not. So copying from A to B, from local to remote etc. is still possible.
i know, even dolphin can do that, but sometimes i like to split the window into more than two, like two different remote and three different local directories, and konqueror can do that easily, even under KDE4. i also find it useful to be able to resize all these split windows independently. not of utmost importance, but a nice and useful feature for me. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:13:25 Sven Burmeister wrote:
Another thing I miss is when I click on the Menu button, at the left end of the bar, I used to be able to type / and the name of what I wanted. I would then be taken to the location in the menu where that item could be found. That no longer works on KDE4 with the classic menu.
The classic menu is just a left-over. It works with the standard menu.
One more reason not to use KDE4. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com> wrote:
The classic menu is just a left-over. It works with the standard menu.
One more reason not to use KDE4.
I don't understand this one. It's saying it *can* be done in kde4 (in fact I use it all the time), yet it's one reason not to use kde4? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 April 2012 19:52:39 you wrote:
The classic menu is just a left-over. It works with the standard menu.
One more reason not to use KDE4.
I don't understand this one. It's saying it *can* be done in kde4 (in fact I use it all the time), yet it's one reason not to use kde4?
There is no search in classic menu in kde4, unlike kde3. And it seems it is not going to be implemented because the kde4 people regard the classic desktop paradigm as a "left-over". That said it is more reasonable to stick with kde3 for those who want a desktop focused on classic approach. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 Apr 2012 12:52:39 Claudio Freire wrote:
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com> wrote:
The classic menu is just a left-over. It works with the standard menu.
One more reason not to use KDE4.
I don't understand this one. It's saying it *can* be done in kde4 (in fact I use it all the time), yet it's one reason not to use kde4?
/-searching the traditional launcher menu (the win95-style one) was a suse patch that was not upstreamed. We coded kickoff for KDE 3, which is search- centric anyway, which was reimplemented by upstream for KDE 4 and became the upstream default. Then someone reimplemented a traditional menu, and the /- search patch was never adapted to this KDE 4 version. Any sense of proportion is missing from this debate though. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 April 2012 20:00:21 Will Stephenson wrote:
I don't understand this one. It's saying it *can* be done in kde4 (in fact I use it all the time), yet it's one reason not to use kde4?
/-searching the traditional launcher menu (the win95-style one) was a suse patch that was not upstreamed. We coded kickoff for KDE 3, which is search- centric anyway, which was reimplemented by upstream for KDE 4 and became the upstream default. Then someone reimplemented a traditional menu, and the /- search patch was never adapted to this KDE 4 version.
The patch is very good by the way and I wonder how it was possible to implement. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Jos Poortvliet <jos@opensuse.org> wrote:
But it beats the old Konqi any time. That one didn't have the + overlay, had no grouping, had no rating and tagging and the location bar was that old, stupid text-entry instead of a nice bar it is now. And there was no proper git or svn integration either. Face it, Dolphin can do lots of useful things Konqi couldn't. Bang, Konqi lost the feature shoot-out. Just like KMail does. And Konsole. And Gwenview. And Kate. And KWrite. Sorry, but KDE 3 doesn't match up to 4 in terms of features. The apps might not look as cluttered as but they have more functionality.
Here's the thing most people miss out. That total list of "features" you bragged about mean absolutely zero to me & others like me who still "cling" to KDE3 in our "foolishness". I ended all interest in playing with KDE4 a few versions back. Why should I have to do all kinds of work to get my desktop the way I like it when KDE3 "IS" how I like it?(and with KPersonalizer you can even turn off all the KDE3 bling in one easy step - which was something I had asked about to be ported to KDE4 - which I don't believe ever happened) I agree that these flame wars are pointless. Those of us who still prefer to use KDE3 get badgered about how we're stupid for missing out on on these new things that we can do with KDE4(of course, the fact that we don't have any interest in these "features" isn't relevant.) As this message said: "Ruediger Meier wrote: KD4 is terrible slow. Also all these useless background stuff (akonadi, nepomuk, mysql, knotify4, etc.) consumes a lot CPU which I want to use for other things or at least avoid to save energy. Don't need much desktop functionality but a snappy window manager." KDE3 runs as nice for me on my Celeron E1200 (@ 3.2Ghz with nVidia 6200) as it does on my Thinkpad 390X with a Neomagic 256XD 2.5MB video chip. Some of us like to make use of our older hardware in ways that we find productive. That's our choice. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday 31 March 2012 16:45:43 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. It's Dolphin that is a bit awkward, not Konqueror. I'd tried switching to Dolphin as that was the new default.
It's what you're used too. The old Konqi is meant to be a swiss army knife - doing lots of things reasonably well. Dolphin aims to be a Filemanager and do THAT really really well, leaving other things to other apps.
No. Dolphin does not provide even the basic functionality for file management.
I would well support an idea of separating the file manager and browser like in Nautilus and Windows Explorer, but if the file manager remains fully functional and not such a thumb like Dolphin is.
It is definitely not a universal file manager, at best a narrow-purpose one.
Yes, when your standard for "basic file manager" is konqueror. When you compare dolphin to the file manager in every other desktop environment, it is far head. So far the only thing you have been able to come up with that other file managers have (although few if any by default) is spatial mode (and you still have not been able to explain how that is better than tabs). -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:24:21 todd rme wrote:
Yes, when your standard for "basic file manager" is konqueror. When you compare dolphin to the file manager in every other desktop environment, it is far head.
No, the standard file managers are Konq, Nautilus, Windows Explorer, PCMan and many others that unlike Dolphin support this basic functionality.
So far the only thing you have been able to come up with that other file managers have (although few if any by default) is spatial mode (and you still have not been able to explain how that is better than tabs).
It is not better or worser. It is that Dolphin is designed only for one paradigm, it is a browsing-mode file manager, not a universal one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
[SNIP] Guys, please stop abusing everyone's inbox. :| For interested people - Trinity is having a meeting in #trinity-desktop-meeting (freenode) in about an hour from this message... So if you want to see what might be done to remedy your KDE3 problems (or improve features), feel free to join in. All input is valued. And again, stop this madness. Even though "the Rules of OpenSuSE say that the project has to have at least one KDE3 vs KDE4 flamewar per quarter" :P -- later daze. :: Robert Xu :: rxu.lincomlinux.org :: protocol.by/rxu -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 30/03/12 19:39, C wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:29, Per Jessen<per@computer.org> wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer. Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4. Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application. Errr... you can to that just fine in Dolphin (Konqueror's replacement in KDE4). Either click Preview in the toolbar or set it to Preview mode by default.
C.
One more duck shot down....... Next!....... :-D BC -- Why isn't there mouse-flavoured cat food? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:39:00 +0200 C <smaug42@opensuse.org> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:29, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application.
Errr... you can to that just fine in Dolphin (Konqueror's replacement in KDE4). Either click Preview in the toolbar or set it to Preview mode by default.
C.
Or, in Dolphin, hit F11 and get the information sidebar [also view => panels => information]. However, I think what Freek is missing is the pop-up image that appeared whenever the cursor was over a file; F11 is the nearest you get to that now. -- Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. openSUSE 11.4 (64-bit); KDE 4.7.4; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nVidia driver); Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 11:07:55 Graham P Davis wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:39:00 +0200
C <smaug42@opensuse.org> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:29, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application.
Errr... you can to that just fine in Dolphin (Konqueror's replacement in KDE4). Either click Preview in the toolbar or set it to Preview mode by default.
C.
Or, in Dolphin, hit F11 and get the information sidebar [also view => panels => information]. However, I think what Freek is missing is the pop-up image that appeared whenever the cursor was over a file; F11 is the nearest you get to that now.
The two mentioned examples are just cosmetic in my eyes, not "essential" facilities missing and apparently they even can be overcome. I got the impression that something essential is missing, so I challenge you to come with such an example. -- fr.gr. Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 of March 2012 11:35EN, Freek de Kruijf wrote:
I got the impression that something essential is missing, so I challenge you to come with such an example.
For me (note: I _am_ using KDE4), the main problem of KDE4 is not what is _missing_ but quite the opposite. Ideal DE for me would be KDE4's kwin with Plasma (which can be tamed after all) but without stuff like Nepomuk, Akonadi, Strigi, KDEPIM ... I really don't have any use for all those and I certainly don't want MySQL running on my desktop because of them. Yes, one can disable them but with every new version of KDE4, this task is getting more and more difficult and it requires to sacrifice more applications. So I do fully understand people who are reluctant to move to KDE4. Just compare the memory footprint of a clean default KDE3 a KDE4 desktop and you should see the point. (And for the record: I consider the removal of KDE3 while KDE4 was still unusable the second worst decision in the ten years I'm using OpenSuSE (first being the move to zmd in beta phase of 10.1, of course).) Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 Mar 2012 12:00:27 Michal Kubeček wrote:
On Friday 30 of March 2012 11:35EN, Freek de Kruijf wrote:
I got the impression that something essential is missing, so I challenge you to come with such an example.
For me (note: I _am_ using KDE4), the main problem of KDE4 is not what is _missing_ but quite the opposite. Ideal DE for me would be KDE4's kwin with Plasma (which can be tamed after all) but without stuff like Nepomuk, Akonadi, Strigi, KDEPIM ... I really don't have any use for all those and I certainly don't want MySQL running on my desktop because of them.
I'm decloaking this a bit earlier than I wanted to, but look in home:wstephenson:branches:klyde for the beginning stages of a packaging of KDE that facilitates this. Patterns to allow installing the minimum set are still to be done, but you should be able to upgrade your existing KDE:Distro:Factory packages to the ones in this branch now and the splits will leave out all the runtime support for the stuff that is more than Just A Desktop Environment. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 Mar 2012 12:09:37 Will Stephenson wrote:
On Friday 30 Mar 2012 12:00:27 Michal Kubeček wrote:
On Friday 30 of March 2012 11:35EN, Freek de Kruijf wrote:
I got the impression that something essential is missing, so I challenge you to come with such an example.
For me (note: I _am_ using KDE4), the main problem of KDE4 is not what is _missing_ but quite the opposite. Ideal DE for me would be KDE4's kwin with Plasma (which can be tamed after all) but without stuff like Nepomuk, Akonadi, Strigi, KDEPIM ... I really don't have any use for all those and I certainly don't want MySQL running on my desktop because of them.
I'm decloaking this a bit earlier than I wanted to, but look in home:wstephenson:branches:klyde for the beginning stages of a packaging of KDE that facilitates this. Patterns to allow installing the minimum set are still to be done, but you should be able to upgrade your existing KDE:Distro:Factory packages to the ones in this branch now and the splits will leave out all the runtime support for the stuff that is more than Just A Desktop Environment.
Just tested a clean 12.1 minimal X server install plus the KDE4-KLYDE pattern, minus a few things that still get installed by mistake, and the resulting KDE4 session on login, with compositing, default applets and an xterm to run smem in consumes 144MB (PSS, measured with smem -u). If you turn off compositing, use Plastik windeco and style and Aya style instead of Oxygen, that drops to 127MB on login. Which is 9.7% total memory consumption by PSS of my 2GB virtual machine. I feel like a Weight Watchers advert. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 March 2012, Michal Kubeček wrote:
(And for the record: I consider the removal of KDE3 while KDE4 was still unusable the second worst decision in the ten years I'm using OpenSuSE
But in this case I would blame KDE upstream a bit more than openSUSE because they effectively declared KDE3 dead while KDE4 was not stable yet. From distributor's point of view the right decision might have been to drop KDE (both 3 and 4) completely since there wasn't a stable, maintained release for at least 2 years or something. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
2012/3/30 Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.cz>:
For me (note: I _am_ using KDE4), the main problem of KDE4 is not what is _missing_ but quite the opposite. Ideal DE for me would be KDE4's kwin with Plasma (which can be tamed after all) but without stuff like Nepomuk, Akonadi, Strigi, KDEPIM ... I really don't have any use for all those and I certainly don't want MySQL running on my desktop because of them.
Amen. I would *love* for 12.2 to have a way not to install any of the semantic desktop stuff and still get a working system. I have many old computers where nepomuk, akonadi and friends noticeably slow it down for no apparent gain. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I would *love* for 12.2 to have a way not to install any of the semantic desktop stuff and still get a working system.
I strongly support that! In case there isn't a feature request, please file one... Werner -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> wrote:
I would *love* for 12.2 to have a way not to install any of the semantic desktop stuff and still get a working system.
I strongly support that! In case there isn't a feature request, please file one...
There was one[0] already. I just expanded on it. [0] https://features.opensuse.org/312999 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 March 2012 13:35:20 Freek de Kruijf wrote:
Or, in Dolphin, hit F11 and get the information sidebar [also view => panels => information]. However, I think what Freek is missing is the pop-up image that appeared whenever the cursor was over a file; F11 is the nearest you get to that now.
The two mentioned examples are just cosmetic in my eyes, not "essential" facilities missing and apparently they even can be overcome.
I got the impression that something essential is missing, so I challenge you to come with such an example.
I really do not want to support this flame war or discussion actually. But if this could be accepted calmly, KDE4 is not usable for me due to several reasons. - Huge visual artefacts, sometimes the desktop icons appear over windows like in this image: http://storage0.static.itmages.ru/i/10/0726/h_1280136020_cc4731eca5.png Also the bottom border of all menu windows does not disappear with the menu and remains on the screen. Unfortunately I cannot make a screenshot of this because the garbage disappears when I press the screenshot button. It is possible to only photograph this with a camera. I have an nvidia card with proprietary drivers. - Removed spatial mode from file manager, I already mentioned. The file manager part has also other disadvantages such as huge gaps between icons. The bothe Dolphin and Konq use the same part. Also ugly file picker dialogs. - Impossibility to make the panel to use the same style as the Qt applications (that is different Qt and Plasma styles). Hence impossibility to use a classical panel style. - The panel elements, the taskbar buttons if the panel resized to smaller size, become too small. I do not like a thick panel that consumes vertical space. - Lack of pleasant styles and artwork. The styles corresponding to those from KDE3 look worser. For example, the Plastique looks much less sharp than Plastik and also affected with gigantism - all the elements and buttons are bigger. I also hated the previous Oxygen icon theme but now it became better. - Impossibility to remove the enema icon without removing the desktop icons or using a third-party plasmoid. This is complicated by the fact that any plasmoid can crash the whole desktop. - Regular Plasma crashes in unpredictable circumstances. - Reportedly broken kmail in KDE 4.8 so that even filtering on POP accounts does not work. - Problems inherited from Qt4, such as not working Russian shortcuts https://bugreports.qt-project.org//browse/QTBUG-5314 or autocomplete forsing the letter's register. ....and so on and so on. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 March 2012 14:08:22 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Friday 30 March 2012 13:35:20 Freek de Kruijf wrote:
Or, in Dolphin, hit F11 and get the information sidebar [also view => panels => information]. However, I think what Freek is missing is the pop-up image that appeared whenever the cursor was over a file; F11 is the nearest you get to that now.
The two mentioned examples are just cosmetic in my eyes, not "essential" facilities missing and apparently they even can be overcome.
I got the impression that something essential is missing, so I challenge you to come with such an example.
I really do not want to support this flame war or discussion actually.
But if this could be accepted calmly, KDE4 is not usable for me due to several reasons.
- Huge visual artefacts,
I've seen this at some point too, and see it frequently on nvidia proprietary drivers. Those need to get fixed, yes...
- Removed spatial mode from file manager, I already mentioned. The file manager part has also other disadvantages such as huge gaps between icons. The bothe Dolphin and Konq use the same part. Also ugly file picker dialogs.
I greatly prefer the file picker in KDElibs 4, but then again, that's a matter of taste. The big gaps between icons is surely solved in Dolphin 2.0, with that filemanager also being faster than Konqi in KDE 3 and having cool features like git/svn/bazaar integration, previews-on-folders, tagging, rating, improved search etcetera. So while it might not do one or two things konqi did, it does a lot konqi doesn't do in KDE 3. Let's acknowledge that too...
"I don't like how it looks"
I like the default style for the panel with Oxygen, imho sc4 looks light years better than the KDE 3 series did. But that's a matter of taste.
- Impossibility to remove the enema icon without removing the desktop icons or using a third-party plasmoid. This is complicated by the fact that any plasmoid can crash the whole desktop.
Not true, only C++ plasmoids can. Many of them are not C++ anymore and the existing ones are being ported to QML so this won't be an issue for long.
- Regular Plasma crashes in unpredictable circumstances.
...and kicker never crashed. Wait... Plasma used to be unstable, but these days it's better than Kicker and KDesktop. And a lot more flexible.
- Reportedly broken kmail in KDE 4.8 so that even filtering on POP accounts does not work.
KMail is quite horrible atm, yes. I do like the fact that I can suddenly find my mails a lot easier, however - alt-F2 "words". And there are a few features coming which I greatly look forward too - I saw Till Adam wrote a patch where KMail searches your mails for mail addresses and auto-completes not only from your addressbook but also from there. Those little things... :D
- Problems inherited from Qt4, such as not working Russian shortcuts https://bugreports.qt-project.org//browse/QTBUG-5314 or autocomplete forsing the letter's register.
Aw...
....and so on and so on.
I agree with the performance issues. Most of the rest is mostly a matter of exchanging one bug for the other - the former just might be more familiar and you're used to working around it. This situation is not so dis-similar from the GNOME Shell introduction, although that forces you to learn a much more different new way of working and is still a bit less mature. But it'll never have ALL the features GNOME 2 had - yet it is already better in many area's. At some point you just have to make the jump, losing a handful of small things for the benefit of having all those others...
On Saturday 31 March 2012 17:06:30 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
- Regular Plasma crashes in unpredictable circumstances.
...and kicker never crashed. Wait...
Kicker never crashed for me on openSUSE since 11.2 installation. I even do not know how it crashes.
- Reportedly broken kmail in KDE 4.8 so that even filtering on POP accounts does not work.
KMail is quite horrible atm, yes. I do like the fact that I can suddenly find my mails a lot easier, however - alt-F2 "words".
Lol. In my kmail there is a search bar always visible. I even do not need to press Alt+F2. Just "words" :-)
I agree with the performance issues.
Actually the performance issues do not bother me as long as a desktop satisfies my needs. I mostly use a desktop computer, not a laptop.
Most of the rest is mostly a matter of exchanging one bug for the other - the former just might be more familiar and you're used to working around it.
What exchange? Any examples?
This situation is not so dis-similar from the GNOME Shell introduction, although that forces you to learn a much more different new way of working and is still a bit less mature. But it'll never have ALL the features GNOME 2 had - yet it is already better in many area's.
I think they better should follow the Mark Shuttleworth's practice: invent new things but name them differently so not to confuse users that this is a new version of Gnome or KDE.
At some point you just have to make the jump, losing a handful of small things for the benefit of having all those others...
I DO NOT have to make any jumps. There are NO benefits from KDE4 for me. There is no single change that is of any use for me. I even cannot say that disadvantages are exceeding advantages because there are no advantages. And of course a fair comparison should be done not with KDE3 as of 2008 but with KDE3(or 4) as it could be if that Plasma Desktop was not pushed instead. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Am 31.03.2012 16:20, schrieb Ilya Chernykh:
And of course a fair comparison should be done not with KDE3 as of 2008 but with KDE3(or 4) as it could be if that Plasma Desktop was not pushed instead.
That might be fair but not practical. We have KDE3 as it is now and KDE4 with Plasma as it is now. Unless somebody actually builds KDE3 as it might have been, it is not a valid option for including into the distribution. In other words: Irrelevant to this list. - -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer Tel.: +49-170-6381563 Mail: lang@b1-systems.de B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk93GcAACgkQCs1dsHJ/X7AVdACg90oqaGlmRLrPzRA1uWjDS2Mz uw8AnRNc80a9HDFZv8waci8Tx1r+5XCp =9Qku -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 March 2012 18:50:40 Ralf Lang wrote:
And of course a fair comparison should be done not with KDE3 as of 2008 but with KDE3(or 4) as it could be if that Plasma Desktop was not pushed instead.
That might be fair but not practical. We have KDE3 as it is now and KDE4 with Plasma as it is now. Unless somebody actually builds KDE3 as it might have been, it is not a valid option for including into the distribution. In other words: Irrelevant to this list.
The argument was not about including in distribution but about advantages of KDE4 and the comparison. You possibly confused some things. KDE4 still did not catch up even with KDE3 level of 2008 not to say what it could be now. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/03/30 11:35 (GMT+0200) Freek de Kruijf composed:
I got the impression that something essential is missing, so I challenge you to come with such an example.
A usable file picker is missing: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283366 Panel settings cannot (last I checked) be used to choose [small,medium,large,custom] (select a specific size rather than having to fight with a mouse and only get an approximation rather than a consistent height), so that every login on every local machine can have a matching panel height and thus exact same size icon fit. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 Mar 2012 10:23:29 Felix Miata wrote:
Panel settings cannot (last I checked) be used to choose [small,medium,large,custom] (select a specific size rather than having to fight with a mouse and only get an approximation rather than a consistent height), so that every login on every local machine can have a matching panel height and thus exact same size icon fit.
KDE 4's panel has displayed the exact panel size in pixels in the resize handle since about 2009 or so. If you want every login on every machine to have the same sized panel, scripting this in the panel's init script would be efficient: /usr/share/kde4/apps/plasma/layout-templates/org.kde.plasma- desktop.defaultPanel/contents/layout.js panel.height = screenGeometry(panel.screen).height > 899 ? 35 : 27 HTH Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/03/30 16:32 (GMT+0200) Will Stephenson composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Panel settings cannot (last I checked) be used to choose [small,medium,large,custom] (select a specific size rather than having to fight with a mouse and only get an approximation rather than a consistent height), so that every login on every local machine can have a matching panel height and thus exact same size icon fit.
KDE 4's panel has displayed the exact panel size in pixels in the resize handle since about 2009 or so.
One which is too short for two rows of open windows except on lowfi displays. The size should be set in em. Pixels don't accommodate the vast range in possible desktop resolutions.
If you want every login on every machine to have the same sized panel, scripting this in the panel's init script would be efficient:
/usr/share/kde4/apps/plasma/layout-templates/org.kde.plasma- desktop.defaultPanel/contents/layout.js
panel.height = screenGeometry(panel.screen).height> 899 ? 35 : 27
Layout.js (with something like 47 : 35) is the kludge I've been using (which I have to look up on every new install, since there's no way to remember where in the /usr rats' nets to find the configuration settings that belong in /etc), but that doesn't answer the issue that a consistent size cannot be chosen via the panel menu. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/03/30 10:23 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
On 2012/03/30 11:35 (GMT+0200) Freek de Kruijf composed:
I got the impression that something essential is missing, so I challenge you to come with such an example.
A usable file picker is missing: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283366
Now that there's been material progress on that bug, two more have sprung from it: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297217 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=297219 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Am 30.03.2012 10:29, schrieb Per Jessen:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application.
I don't think this is the list for discussing the better desktop (and KDE3 has some merits). This list is for discussing development of the next openSUSE release but recently we just got spammed with "deprecate KDE3" - "systemd is evil" - "Poettering is the lord of evil". Please stop that. So seriously, what is udisks2 and how does it affect systems which don't use it? - -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer Tel.: +49-170-6381563 Mail: lang@b1-systems.de B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk91d3kACgkQCs1dsHJ/X7Db8QCdGsUBAwfaqm6QCk6ysDvIMcxr 254AoPSHe0XX0iXuT8QIAyiCaBZEnXfz =lAy2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 Mar 2012 10:29:07 Per Jessen wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application.
Stop it! I appreciate what you're trying to do - the Rules of OpenSuSE say that the project has to have at least one KDE3 vs KDE4 flamewar per quarter, and at least one KDE vs GNOME mudwrestling match a year. But usually these are provided for general entertainment (like an 18th century visit to Bedlam) on the english users' list, not here on Factory. Whether or not current KDE has complete feature parity with past KDE is irrelevant, and you'll never get Ilya to see your point of view (he has previously stated that he finds KDE 2 better yet), just as you won't get Miguel to admit that it's not really about freedom any more, Aaron to admit that maybe porting kicker and kdesktop to Qt4 back in 2006 would have taken about a week and saved a lot of bawling since, Mark to admit that Kubuntu was just a spoiler play or Linus to admit that he just doesn't like any desktop very much. What it leaves is a big smoking hole in openSUSE's development community where we could be making 12.2 great. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Will Stephenson wrote:
On Friday 30 Mar 2012 10:29:07 Per Jessen wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
Review images directly in Konqueror without opening a 2nd window or application.
Stop it!
I appreciate what you're trying to do - the Rules of OpenSuSE say that the project has to have at least one KDE3 vs KDE4 flamewar per quarter, and at least one KDE vs GNOME mudwrestling match a year.
Stopped. That was not my intention, I only tried (but failed) to answer Freeks question. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 March 2012, Per Jessen wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
KD4 is terrible slow. Also all these useless background stuff (akonadi, nepomuk, mysql, knotify4, etc.) consumes a lot CPU which I want to use for other things or at least avoid to save energy. Dont't need much desktop functionality but a snappy window manager. The only real KDE3 applications I am using are konsole and kmail. Compare their speed vs. their KDE4 successors! Even small things like klauncher (ALT+F2) is IMO useless slow on KDE4 (completion seems to be slower than typing manually). Another thing is that KDE4 somehow produces a lot more I/O load. I always note this when our NFS servers are on heavy load but nobody of our users notices that except the KDE4 users. This is BTW the reason why we have only one KDE4 user left :) The others are using KDE3, enlightenment or IceWM. BTW this bug is also a major point why our users don't like KDE4 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158606 It is also present in KD3 but in KDE4 it got 1000 times worse. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:11:14 +0100 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> wrote:
KD4 is terrible slow. Also all these useless background stuff (akonadi, nepomuk, mysql, knotify4, etc.) consumes a lot CPU which I want to use for other things or at least avoid to save energy.
+1 or if possible +10 The slowness of kde4 killed it for me immediatly. May be it can be tuned, but, thank you, I'm not interested in making a usable machine usable again after installing kde4. Anecdotal evidence but: Installed 12.1 standard on a few years old laptop as an emergency measure for a "used-to-windows" user a few days ago. Rumors of great usability of kde4 let me choose that DE for a windows user. Couldn't believe how much slower (read: unbearable) it was compard to a no-nonsense LXDE on the same machine. Btw: That "used-to-windows" user enjoyed a bare bone lxde very much for her basic computing needs without any further assistance. Detlef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:10:53 +0200 Detlef Steuer <detlef.steuer@gmx.de> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:11:14 +0100 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> wrote:
KD4 is terrible slow. Also all these useless background stuff (akonadi, nepomuk, mysql, knotify4, etc.) consumes a lot CPU which I want to use for other things or at least avoid to save energy.
+1 or if possible +10
The slowness of kde4 killed it for me immediatly. May be it can be tuned, but, thank you, I'm not interested in making a usable machine usable again after installing kde4.
How about installing desktop that is appropriate for machine at hand. and then post hardware info, desktop settings etc, that people can reuse for similar hardware. That would be helpful. Also, you know what readers of this, opensuse-factory list that has as a topic 12.2, can do with you anecdotal evidence on 12.1 installation. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:17:09 +0530, Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:10:53 +0200 Detlef Steuer <detlef.steuer@gmx.de> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:11:14 +0100 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> wrote:
KD4 is terrible slow. Also all these useless background stuff (akonadi, nepomuk, mysql, knotify4, etc.) consumes a lot CPU which I want to use for other things or at least avoid to save energy.
+1 or if possible +10
The slowness of kde4 killed it for me immediatly. May be it can be tuned, but, thank you, I'm not interested in making a usable machine usable again after installing kde4.
How about installing desktop that is appropriate for machine at hand. and then post hardware info, desktop settings etc, that people can reuse for similar hardware. That would be helpful.
Also, you know what readers of this, opensuse-factory list that has as a topic 12.2, can do with you anecdotal evidence on 12.1 installation.
personally i'm mildly amused by these ongoing and repeated flame-wars being fought on a mailing list that's meant to get actual work done. i do understand that others, serious contributors & board members, get upset though. you know, it always takes at least two to have a fight, on- or offline. i can understand how somebody, being in an unpleasant frame of mind for whatever reason, posts some polemic message, feeling just a little bit better in his misery for a moment. what i don't understand is why _always_ those of the opposing camp (whichever) feel it necessary to repute every silly little statement with tons of arguments that have been made, cited, and chewed over thousands of times. if somebody posts nonsense that's got nothing to do with any technical or otherwise relevant topics, just keep quiet, and s/he will go away. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 08:04, phanisvara das <listmail@phanisvara.com> wrote:
personally i'm mildly amused by these ongoing and repeated flame-wars being fought on a mailing list that's meant to get actual work done. i do understand that others, serious contributors & board members, get upset though.
you know, it always takes at least two to have a fight, on- or offline. i can understand how somebody, being in an unpleasant frame of mind for whatever reason, posts some polemic message, feeling just a little bit better in his misery for a moment. what i don't understand is why _always_ those of the opposing camp (whichever) feel it necessary to repute every silly little statement with tons of arguments that have been made, cited, and chewed over thousands of times.
if somebody posts nonsense that's got nothing to do with any technical or otherwise relevant topics, just keep quiet, and s/he will go away.
What do you say though when someone posts: "I can't use A because A is broken. I say A is broken because it can't do B, and every time I try to do C I get bugs 1, 2, and 3." and then you go read bugs 1, 2, and 3 and test action B and discover that B is completely possible and bug 1 is a local configuration issue, while bugs 2 and 3 look to be real issues. Do you say nothing about B and bug 1? hoping that the user "goes away"? or do you try to show the user that B is actually possible if they actually used A. Anyway, someone from the board is annoyed with the discussion and wants it stopped.... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:50:20 +0530, C <smaug42@opensuse.org> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 08:04, phanisvara das <listmail@phanisvara.com>
... if somebody posts nonsense that's got nothing to do with any technical or otherwise relevant topics, just keep quiet, and s/he will go away.
What do you say though when someone posts:
"I can't use A because A is broken. I say A is broken because it can't do B, and every time I try to do C I get bugs 1, 2, and 3."
and then you go read bugs 1, 2, and 3 and test action B and discover that B is completely possible and bug 1 is a local configuration issue, while bugs 2 and 3 look to be real issues. Do you say nothing about B and bug 1? hoping that the user "goes away"? or do you try to show the user that B is actually possible if they actually used A.
Anyway, someone from the board is annoyed with the discussion and wants it stopped....
i wasn't talking about this type of case, where actual bugs and erroneous understanding are involved; these should be dealt with (according to me). i meant posts that don't have nothing to do with technical matters, re-citing often heard opinions & stuff, or repeating of wrong conclusions that have already been clarified, but the poster doesn't seem to get it into his or her head. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:34:25 +0530, phanisvara das <listmail@phanisvara.com> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:17:09 +0530, Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:10:53 +0200 Detlef Steuer <detlef.steuer@gmx.de> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:11:14 +0100 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> wrote:
KD4 is terrible slow. Also all these useless background stuff (akonadi, nepomuk, mysql, knotify4, etc.) consumes a lot CPU which I want to use for other things or at least avoid to save energy.
+1 or if possible +10
The slowness of kde4 killed it for me immediatly. May be it can be tuned, but, thank you, I'm not interested in making a usable machine usable again after installing kde4.
How about installing desktop that is appropriate for machine at hand. and then post hardware info, desktop settings etc, that people can reuse for similar hardware. That would be helpful.
Also, you know what readers of this, opensuse-factory list that has as a topic 12.2, can do with you anecdotal evidence on 12.1 installation.
personally i'm mildly amused by these ongoing and repeated flame-wars being fought on a mailing list that's meant to get actual work done. i do understand that others, serious contributors & board members, get upset though.
you know, it always takes at least two to have a fight, on- or offline. i can understand how somebody, being in an unpleasant frame of mind for whatever reason, posts some polemic message, feeling just a little bit better in his misery for a moment. what i don't understand is why _always_ those of the opposing camp (whichever) feel it necessary to repute every silly little statement with tons of arguments that have been made, cited, and chewed over thousands of times.
if somebody posts nonsense that's got nothing to do with any technical or otherwise relevant topics, just keep quiet, and s/he will go away.
(i didn't mean to direct this at rajko m. in particular; in his last post he did offer constructive suggestions, even though the tone, IMO, is still a little off, but we're all human, of course...). -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2012-03-30 at 10:29 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
On vrijdag 30 maart 2012 07:24:03 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Well, I then there will be no desktop suitable for me. I would be unable to work on my computer.
Please be productive and explain what you can do with KDE3 that you can't do with KDE4.
I take this on the spirit of non flame war, but as an honest question. For me, the design of kde4 is too bloated, I simply can not handle it intuitively. Previously I used both kde and gnome. With the arrival of kde4, I stopped using it. I can't use gnome 3 either, so I turned to xfce. This is simply a fact for me, and others. No flames, please. But I still use some applications from kde that I like a lot. For example I like amarok, but it uses lots of cpu (and my machine is powerful). I also use k3b. Magnific app. But there are two kde3 applications I need that have not been ported. One is kbabel, the other is rekall. The first has an incomplete successor (lokalize), the second has been abandoned. I'll keep using the old apps while they remain available, so a big thankyou to Ilya. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk91rg0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VOtgCfSRFcQ7CunnXCMjv3pu+hoMMI V2oAn2le2wAnrtGPefx79X7y0BvjNRmE =3cul -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 March 2012, Carlos E. R. wrote:
But I still use some applications from kde that I like a lot.
For example I like amarok, but it uses lots of cpu (and my machine is powerful). I also use k3b. Magnific app.
I can recommend you kde3-amarok-1.4 with xine backend :)
But there are two kde3 applications I need that have not been ported. One is kbabel, the other is rekall. The first has an incomplete successor (lokalize), the second has been abandoned. I'll keep using the old apps while they remain available, so a big thankyou to Ilya.
BTW I am missing kuickshow what happened to it? cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 March 2012 17:09:21 Ruediger Meier wrote:
For example I like amarok, but it uses lots of cpu (and my machine is powerful). I also use k3b. Magnific app.
I can recommend you kde3-amarok-1.4 with xine backend :)
But there are two kde3 applications I need that have not been ported. One is kbabel, the other is rekall. The first has an incomplete successor (lokalize), the second has been abandoned. I'll keep using the old apps while they remain available, so a big thankyou to Ilya.
BTW I am missing kuickshow what happened to it?
kuickshow depends on an old imlib library that has been replaced by imlib2. It is the only such application in KDE3. It is a part of kdebase and has been disabled by Lubos when imlib was failing to build. I managed to build both imlib and kuckshow since then, and they worked, but I think it cannot be re-enabled because kdebase is a part of openSUSE which has no imlib library and it is unrealistic that it can be accepted only for one application. That said the proper solution is to build kuckshow separately of kdebase3. I managed it to build it in my repository but mysteriously this separate build does not work: in shows a black rectangle instead of any picture. The package is here: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=kde3-kuickshow&project=home%3AAnsus%3AKDE3 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (31)
-
Basil Chupin -
Brian K. White -
Bruno Friedmann -
C -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Claudio Freire -
Cristian Morales Vega -
Detlef Steuer -
Felix Miata -
Freek de Kruijf -
Graham Anderson -
Graham P Davis -
Ilya Chernykh -
James Knott -
Jos Poortvliet -
Kim Leyendecker -
Larry Stotler -
Michal Kubeček -
Per Jessen -
Peter Linnell -
phanisvara das -
Rajko M. -
Ralf Lang -
Robert Xu -
Ruediger Meier -
Sven Burmeister -
todd rme -
Werner LEMBERG -
Will Stephenson -
Илья Черных