Hi again! :) On 8 September 2015 at 22:57, gumb <gumb@linuxmail.org> wrote: <snip>
I think part of what makes this change to 64-bit-only hard to digest is that it has come about as a result of the restructuring of openSUSE which was largely unforeseen at the time of the last 13.2 release. Users were informed that 13.2 was delayed due to the re-engineering within SUSE, as though it were a one-off exception (especially since one of the many inward-looking discussions on openSUSE releases only happened a couple of years ago, where it was decided to stick to the 8-month cycle and drop the .0 release). Many might have thought the following '13.3' release would follow eight or even six months later, in the circumstances. But this new tie-in to SUSE service pack releases has rather forced openSUSE's hand on the 64-bit issue. If things had remained under the original system, when the decision to drop 32-bit were made, it would likely have been announced in advance or even in conjunction with the previous release, a sort of 'note: this will be the last 32-bit version of openSUSE' statement. Instead - and this isn't a criticism of the new system which I think has some merit - we are rapidly approaching the next release and nobody had thought to make users aware that it would be 64-bit only. No conspiracy, no big fault of anybody, but unfortunately users are only now finding out shortly before a release, which has left people still on 32-bit-only little time to prepare.
I dont think we're giving people an 'unfair time to prepare' unless something changes (and I have no reason to think it will) 13.2, the last openSUSE 32-bit release, will be supported for '2 releases plus 2 months' like previous "openSUSE X.Y" releases With leaps new annual 'minor release' model, that will mean it'll still be supported until approximately January 2017, for a total lifespan of 26 months - a pretty good innings as well as in Britain, and at least 14 months of warning for 32-bit users if you ignore everything we've done to date regarding Leap being 64-bit only. With the precipitous decline in 32-bit openSUSE downloads, the amount of actual people who should actually be impacted by the total lack of a supported 32-bit openSUSE release should be pretty small, and I hope by then the benefits of moving to 64-bit would be more obvious than they already should be And yes, I'm purposefully ignoring what might happen with Evergreen, because I am not in a position to know what they're planning more than anyone else here. I think even if they do nothing, the situation for 32-bit openSUSE users is not the end of the world
Well I know that in many European countries and the US there are organizations abound that cart off thousands of computers and devices to the developing world. They can't *all* be scams! Nonetheless, still a drop in the ocean I guess. I was quite careful however to distinguish in my remarks above that the country hosting the summit wasn't necessarily the same one that would have such older hardware. Neither China nor Taiwan represent the poorest countries in that region. And for those users enthused enough and with the technological prowess to attend such a summit, sure, they will not generally be the ones with the least resources or coming from the more remote or poor regions.
That's a fair point, and I want it kept in mind with something I say below.
openSUSE has also been about choice. Choice in desktop environments, choice in enterprise/community distro or now rolling release. Choice in configuring it just how you want it, and for whatever you want it for.
The whole 'Linux is about Choice' thing is a little bit of a mantra that I find..annoying. I understand the appeal of it. Ooh, lots of choices, I'm in control, I can do what I want. It's very empowering But Linux, and subsequently openSUSE, isn't about unlimited choice. The choices that openSUSE can offer are a function of the choices which openSUSE's contributors want to offer Choices for the sake of choices, add complexity Complexity adds work for those contributors Complexity leads to more things breaking Breaking adds even more work for those contributors So, sure, Linux and openSUSE are about choice, but ultimately the 'final' choices are the ones made by those people sending in code, assets, pull requests to git, submit requests to OBS. And they have perfectly valid reasons for wanting to define the scope of choices within certain boundaries - most likely ones which interest them, and address issues which they are passionate about. This isn't a 'contributors are gods, you users must suffer their wrath' speech, but a statement of how the world works, really. If you're a user who wants to more directly influence openSUSE, beyond just providing ideas, feedback, suggestions, then learn to become a contributor. There is no entrance exam. We don't have strict requirements. A desire and ability to do, and a desire and ability to learn, are the two requirements, the rest is pretty much up to you. I'm speaking from experience here - 10 years ago I started in openSUSE 'as a user', not thinking I had any right, way, or capability of contributing (back then it was a lot harder, no OBS, bugzilla locked down, 20 feet of snow for 10 miles barefoot..you get the idea) I started by filing bugs about stuff that pissed me off - and not just filing and forgetting, but when Developers asked me questions backed, I asked more, I questioned why they wanted this information, what was it for, where can I find it, etc.. it was a learning process for me, while also a productive bug fixing one for the developers. And then when I started to know about to mess around a little more, I started submitting changes which were pretty much "Richard setting the defaults he always used himself and forcing them on every other openSUSE user by default". It's a great way of contributing, you learn a lot about the software you're using in the process, and openSUSE ends up with a reputation for being more polished, when in fact, it's just 'setup the way I like it'.. and that also is a point I want remembered when I talk further later in this email.
But the focus of the distro has clearly now shifted. Somebody, in a thread I can no longer find, was just commenting on how openSUSE is now all about servers, cloud deployments, development tools and the like. That would fit in with the thrust of SUSE towards datacenters and software services. But it's a sharp contrast to where the project was at when I picked up my first boxed copy of 8.2 a decade ago. My eyes glazed over as I looked at the details and screenshots on the back of the box detailing the thousands of apps and useful tasks that could be achieved with openSUSE - very much oriented to the 'power desktop user' as well as developers. Even in the 11.x series the promotional material with the trendy guy in his big designer chair was aimed at the professional who wanted an easy life. The current target user seems to now be shifting, even if some people will still want to claim that openSUSE is everything for everybody. It's going more the way of the enterprise, the developer and the system administrator, and that level of choice and support for the desktop user and their stable of older machines is being eroded.
Besides the removal of 32-bit support, Leap has everything for 'typical desktop users' previous openSUSE releases has, just more stable than ever before, with professional maintenance updates for a good chunk of the core operating system.. I'm sorry, that's a win for developers, sysadmins, conservative desktop users..anyone who doesn't necessarily want the latest versions of everything (Tumbleweed hits that niche) and wants an up to date Linux distribution that works. <snip>
But doesn't that exemplify a bigger problem, whereby openSUSE can only expect financial or hardware support if it aligns itself with the needs of SUSE and its enterprise product? If openSUSE is to be wholly independent, it should either get supported no matter what direction it wants to take, or it would have to just cut ties completely with SUSE as its sponsors and go seek funding elsewhere.
openSUSE is independent, we can go to anyone, anywhere, and ask for help, money, support, donations, blah blah.. just look at our conference sponsorships for the last years But for 32-bit, we need several things, mainly Hardware, for testing and building, and Developers, for fixing bugs, testing and building So! lets think outside the box, who besides SUSE can we approach and say "Hey! We're openSUSE and we're interested in continuing 32-bit support for our Linux distribution, and to do that we would like to see if you're able to donate hardware for our build system, and maybe you have developers who would be willing to work on it with us?" Oh..but this is 32-bit Intel we're talking about No ones been making 32-bit Intel machines for years. No/very few developers, realistically, are going to have an interest in expending a great deal of effort on a dying platform. We have no one to turn to. It's not a case of 'openSUSE isn't independent enough' It's a case of 'this is 2015, the world has changed'
I'm not against progress, but I can't help feeling openSUSE now has its hands tied on this issue as a consequence of aligning itself with the enterprise LTS base. And it may not be the last time that happens.
openSUSE's 'hands' are tied by the interest, capability, and activity of our contributors I understand this is a tricky concept for some. Linux, and Open Source software in general, often comes with a lot of baggage, in the sense that it has a bit of a philosophical aspect to it. Free source, Free data, free thinking. All these people, working on something for free, they must be doing it because they're altruistic, charity minded, right? WRONG The altruism motive isn't totally absent, but it is not the prime motivator for many (I'd argue most) open source contributors to get up in the morning and work on open source software There's lots of studies on this, which actually support that statement which, I know to some, will sound somewhat heretical. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014292101001246 (nice summary of this on wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_movement#Motivations_of_Programmer... ) The Cathedral and the Bazaar covers this topic very well with it's 19 "lessons", especially #1 "Every good work of software starts by scratching a developer's personal itch." http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/ And I really like sharing this video when this topic comes up, which while not 100% focused on just open source software, really does show a lot about the psychology behind peoples motivations, and how that really works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc And this is where I want to call back to the two previous points I highlit While openSUSE obviously needs users, should care for them, should address needs that they have, as a project, our bread a butter, our lifeblood, the people who will do things, come up with ideas, put things together, to keep openSUSE moving forward for ourselves and everyone else, are the enthusiastic ones, are the ones who come to conferences, are the ones who involve themselves in discussions like this and work to shape the future of what we're doing. I'm not saying we should just absolutely forget about the others, the silent ones, such as the example of those from remote and poor regions, but if we're not able to talk to them, involve them, engage them, we're not going to have people enthused, capable, and able of addressing their needs. They might get addressed by accident, as a side effect, I hope so, but we have to focus on where the spark is, where people volunteer their time, effort, work, love, energy..because that's how cool new stuff happens. It's how we can produce better products than everyone else. If we forget that, and chase audiences and use cases which don't ignite flame within ourselves, every effort we try in that direction will fail due to lack of interest. It might sound selfish, putting 'I' before 'others', but we're a community of volunteers. It's a collection of "I"'s, individuals, all with their own individual itches, personal thoughts, concepts, motivations, etc. We become a community, by finding the common things which interest us, by finding ways of pulling the disparate stuff together, and collectively building a better thing than we could if we did it alone But ultimately, I argue that deep down we're all just people wanting to build openSUSE and stuff it full of the default settings that as individuals we think are best for everyone else. And that's okay, as long as we communicate, coordinate, work together, and compromise so the final outcome of openSUSE is a collective work which we can all be proud of. And so if you're an openSUSE user who feels that openSUSE is going in a direction you don't like, please, take this opportunity to get involved, and learn how to change it. No ones going to stop you, but by that same token, I think it's unfair for you to expect others to change what they want to do, just because you disagree. That's just a route to a nice cyclic conversation..which is where this email is going to go if I don't end it now Hope this gives people food for thought - Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org