Am 28.07.2015 um 10:58 schrieb Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger:
On Tue, 2015-07-28 at 10:34 +0200, Thomas Langkamp wrote:
Can we agree that packman is the most important user repo of openSUSE so that it should be treated special?
I'm afraid I cannot. I can agree that Packman is an important repo for providing some patent encumbered packages.
some? Those are really important for desktop users. thats the reason why they were patented. If you want to watch videos (offline, non-flash) or hear music (except mp3) you most definetly need packman.
No, you don't... you could actually go the patent-legal way and buy the OnePlay Codec Pack... stating that you must use PM is like stating you must commit a crime to use watch Videos (depending on region that is... )
OK. then we need a desktop-button / link advertising this solution. Is that an option? Many years I did not even know that such a solution existed. If it is not an option we are back at point zero I am afraid.
so again - why not setup openQA also for packman? Nobody answered this yet. Is this an unreasonable request?
That's something the packman team would have to organize. Note that PM is not provided by the openSUSE project... so asking about improvements on the packman infrastructure here is probably about as useful as asking Apple to improve the openSUSE infrastructure... they are just disjoint.
the infrastructure is disjoint - but don´t we share some common goals as both work on opensuse packages / improving the distro? not helpful to compare this to apple. packamn deserves better. If there would be interest to push multimedia on opensuse, some openQA devs could propose openQA to packman and offer them help. But it seems that there is no interest here. If I alone go to the packman team and say: hey, please setup openQA for me, opensuse devs are not interested, but me, I am - then I already know their answer: "We have no hardware for this, no money to buy, nor man-power nor knowledge how to do it. You have to do it yourself... or ask suse" Packman-Team is known to have not enough devs / funds / hardware.
true. TW is very stable thanks to openQA and all your hard work. but quality lies also in functionality and in this respect openSUSE lacks multimedia quality due to patents. Why do some other distros (ubuntu) do not have those problems? Do they pay?
They have their corporate headquarter on Cayman ilands.. try to sue them.. and you'll fail in many ways :)
ok, wow. just wow. thanks for the information. very interesting.
gnome-software and muon also use PackageKit and also cannot handle conflicts. Apper was an example. Is there any chance that conflict-handling can be included in packagekit?
The 'problem' here is that PK was not designed for a full user -interaction, but it relies on proper repositories - something other distros have less trouble to offer (as they do not use OBS, making it so easy to create additional, conflicting repositories)
=> further comments:
A users confirmation to install the automatically proposed update is desired, agreed. A password will be needed for new software only, as this is already the way PackageKit/Apper & Win7 (just tested) are doing it from user accounts.
This is already done in GNOME with GNOME Software/PackageKit
what exactly. automatic updates for TW on Gnome are working and enabled?
No, that referred to the password not being needed for updates. gnome -software does download the updates in the background, but does not apply them without user action (one possible action is the tickbox on shutdown: apply system update (screenshot pasted at http://paste.opensuse.org/51189139 for your reference)
very nice to see this. And this works ok for TW despite being not recommended for it? Ok, then I will have to open a feature request for plasma5 to add such functionality for apper, muon. But then apper is still not working nor recommended for TW.
For me you had a +1 for this _for servers & advanced users_, but a strong -1 for _desktops for beginners_.
If you want a nice noob-friendly desktop, you shouldn't expect a beginner to know they have to install a whole bunch of optional packages, and just give them all to them at all the time.
I'd argue that someone who cares about the presence of additional packages they don't need/use is by definition, not a beginner.
ok, good point. did not see it that way. we can erase this one from my list :D
Packagers should be more aware of the distinction between recommended and suggested packages: - Recommended: automatically installed, greatly enhances the capability of the package. Even if it could work without this feature, it is impaired - Suggested: a functional enhancement. The user should be aware that the feature is provided, but for normal operation of a package, this is not needed.
The 'suggests' might need to be better exposed in YaST Software Manager though...
Cheers, Dominique
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