On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.de> wrote: ranchens" and spreading the good word about Novell
An option would be if somebody does a vote in a neutral way (like Larry started) and then represents the outcome - but do you think everybody on this list moving to the forums is feasible?
No. While I generaly prefer forums, I've found thet gmail's threaded view is execllent for these lists and have mirgrated most of my subscriptions here because of that. I've been planning to join the forums, but time, time, time, and energy are always at a premium.
It's not as black and white as you say - there are users on mailing lists and developers on the forum as well...
Yep. I'm a long time user, but that creates its own problems. I'm used to the way SuSE and now openSUSE has just worked. I've been critical of bad choices(like the 10.1 package management issue and the KDE4 only LiveCD for 11.0), but I've been vocal in my appriciation for the great stuff and improvements that have been made(the vastly improved package manager for 11.0, renewed PPC support for 10.0, etc). But, I can't come in and be an actuall representation of what a new user might prefer.
True reasons? There's nothing to hide: Check how many bugs the kde-maintainers@suse.de list has assigned, see the work for KDE3 and KDE4, assume a fixed number of Novell engineers working on KDE - and then it's an evaluation what to do: Support both KDE 3 and KDE 4? Or spend all energy on KDE 4? Or be the only current distribution that works only on KDE3?
How about SLED? DO you honestly think that corps that have been using KDE 3.x for years really want the hassle of having to test out a new desktop, especially one that is far from finished? Look at the adoption of Vista. Corps are avoiding it like the plague. And they would do the same with a KDE4 only based SLED. Especially those that have a lot of time and effort invested in KDE3 based inhouse apps(no idea if/how many actually have them, but....). IF SLED 11.0 won't have KDE3, Im willing to bet that there will be a negative approach ro it for many corps. Just my opinion.
Currently 40 % of our KDE users are KDE 4 users, so going forward KDE 4 is a valid option and I personally would rather have a perfect KDE 4 than a less perfect KDE 4 and KDE 3 support. You will argue - and you're right - that even if we drop KDE 3, KDE 4 will not become perfect but long term that's the bet we want to do.
Actually, there was more KDE3 users than KDE4 from that survey. So, do you remove KDE3 and lose 25% of your user base like Fedora 9 did? openSUSE's KDE4 was much better than Fedora's, but we still had KDE3. And, consider that this change wasn't openSUSE's decision. The KDE team decided to do KDE4 this way. And that does leave the openSUSE devs in a bad position.
Are you actively involved with an Open Source Project besides openSUSE? I'm participating in some and I often see and hear "code wins" - and unfortunately only seldom the users are asked.
And the KDE4 team seems to have taken that position. At least the openSUSE devs have listened to the backlash that occured when removing KDE3 was suggested.
From what I have seen these ar ethe big complaints about KDE4:
1. Not stable - BIG issue. 2. Slower than KDE3 - my own experience shows that. 3. Missing KDE functionality compared to KDE3 4. Having KDE4 apps installed when doing a KDE3 install(very annoying) 5. Too glitzy Which is one of the reasons that I repeatedly have asked for am easy to use option like the old Eye-Candy meter. If nothing else, maybe have it as an icon on the desktop to be able to be ran or in the menu(which I honestly don't care for the new menu structure and haven't figured out to change it in KDE4 yet either.... :( ). Not all of us have heacy duty graphics cards and loads of RAM even now...... Thanx --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org