On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 04:40, Simon Lees <sflees@suse.de> wrote:
In the latest submission you should be back to getting SDDM or LightDM rather then both on default installs. xdm is still needed as mentioned in the other thread. lightdm is recommended by patterns-base-x11 which is present when you select the "KDE Dekstop" configuration.
If you ever have a 32bit pattern installed it will give you a 32bit version of all the libraries in that pattern that you can. That's correct by I don't have any 32bit pattern, as far as I remember, the only package I have that requires 32bit pakcages is wine.
In the past we have had feedback from many people that they like the fact that they have everything they need out of the box especially on desktop systems, obviously that's the opposite of what you want. If we get it to the point of working well potentially we could look at a minimal system role that has recommends disabled Yes I agree with that, everything should work "out of the box" specially when it comes to desktop, but there's also an unnecessary amount of recommended patterns that get pulled. And installing a system (for desktop use or not) is somehow broken if you disable recommended packages during the installation.
The patterns will do something with recommends disabled, however the something is known to lead to broken systems particularly on desktops mostly due to certain things being recommended that should be required, once you get out of the core patterns, no recommends and patterns do start to make less sense, for example if you just install the enlightenment package, you'll get a working desktop if you install the pattern with no recommends you should get basically the same thing, if you install it with recommends however, you'll get a browser and some other basic desktop apps, because people complained it didn't have these things.. I checked that for patterns like enlightenment an other desktops some packages get installed event with recommended packages disabled. However there are other patters that don't do anything when that option is turned off.
Recommends Vs Requires can be clear cut and there is some places we get it wrong but there are many other places where its much less clear cut, for example, there are many places where a program might not strictly need a plugin / dependency but without that feature working most users would complain that the program is broken or not useful, in such cases maintainers have probably decided to go with requires over recommends, in other cases they may not have. Yes, I realize this is sort of a grey area. But, like you said, maybe it should be up to the maintainers to decide which are "true" dependencies and which are not. So that, disabling recommend packages will be acceptable.
A start would be firing up a VM then customizing your install to only install the base pattern, then boot in disable recommends, install the rest of the system the way you want then start fixing the stuff that's broken because recommends should be requires. Then I guess start looking at some other desktops / systems you wouldn't normally use and see if you find issues there. Once you know its working adding some openQA tests with no recommends would be great.
Really the biggest reason this isn't better in openSUSE atm is because no one who cares about it has put the effort in to make it better, beyond the base system anyway, that has had some work to make it better for containers etc. Good suggestion. Will do. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org