Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 10/25/2011 02:47 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
OK, after a number of years where we have worked really hard to hand control of the project to the community and have opened a lot of tools and processes to the community you still are harping on the "SUSE controls openSUSE" crap. This ticks me off big time.
It's surely a fact nonetheless. Are you disputing that?
Yes I am.
There are very few (if any) mechanisms for the community at large to make community decisions.
What kind of mechanisms are you looking for? For what decisions do we need these mechanisms?
Any and all. Or is it just old-fashioned anarchy?
Perhaps openSUSE isn't controlled by SUSE, but it certainly isn't controlled by the community either:
Well "someone" made the decision to have KDE as the default desktop, and "someone" made the decision about the new numbering scheme, and "someone" made the decision about the release cycle, and .....
Right, like you say so eloquently, "someone".
I'll give you a hint, these decisions were not made by SUSE.
Don't be shy, give me more than a hint, how were those decisions made? For instance, for a while Frederic Crozat (formerly with Mandriva, now SUSE) has been in charge of coordinating/running/whatever the systemd integration targeted for 12.1 - I don't remember anyone publicly asking the community (paid or otherwise) for volunteers for that job? I don't even remember the community being asked if Frederic was a good candidate. (absolutely NO criticisms aimed at Frederic here).
We don't yet have a foundation,
That has nothing to do with the direction of the project. I am not sure why everyone thinks that having a foundation will be this "great liberating event".
I didn't suggest either. I do however submit that after several years, the lack of a foundation is a problem (although largely symbolic).
As far as I am concerned there will be a bunch of problems that the community has to deal with that we do not have today. Any volunteer for a treasurer yet?
Has there actually been a call for volunteers? I'll volunteer, I have a good Treuhand in Oerlikon who can do the books.
Any volunteers to do fund raising? There's a whole list that Alan is working on for things the community will have to take over once we have a foundation. I am not sure people are aware of all if these things nor am I certain we as a community have the volunteers to do all the work.
Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to having a foundation, however, there's a big ball of administrative crap work rolling towards the community and I am not sure we are prepared to deal with it.
+1
many key "community" positions are (apparently) occupied by SUSE staff. We can't even get an official list of who is staff and who isn't (a while ago I asked about an organigramm and only got given a long run-around by Andreas Jaeger).
Well, I think the org chart of SUSE is not the business of the community,
Nor do I, but an org chart of the openSUSE community is the business of the community, and that is all I asked for. Or is there a reason to keep it from us?
and in the end what is the difference if SUSE pays 1, 10, or 20 people to work on openSUSE full time. The project and the community benefits from the contribution.
The numbers don't matter, the names and jobs do.
Why is it so hard to just treat us, the SUSE employees as regular community members?
Because it, to us outsiders, is so very obvious that you're not. Especially when you insist you are. "The lady doth protest to much, methinks". -- Per Jessen, Zürich (7.6°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org