Hi :) El Tuesday 03 February 2009, Kevin Dupuy escribió:
On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 18:39 +0100, Rafa Grimán wrote:
What I was trying to say is that since openSUSE is a Novell "product", we (openSUSE/SLES/SLED user base) should not have to report bugs upstream to the original project (be it KDE, GNOME, smolt, kernel, ...). We (openSUSE/SLES/SLED user base) should report bugs to Novell/SUSE. And Novell/SUSE would then either: a) fix those bugs if it's related to Novell/SUSE b) report upstream if it's got nothing to do with Novell/SUSE
This way, we get an organized way of reporting bugs, bugs don't get reported twice (mainstream and in Novell's bugzilla), ... That's all.
But then you have to define who is "Novell/SUSE"...
by Novell/SUSE... I would assume you mean people who test and develop openSUSE... people like you and me.
I'll be more specific: the team at Novell that develop SUSE Linux, be it openSUSE, SLES and/or SLED.
If you're reading and posting on -factory, I would think that you are able to report a bug in the Novell Bugzilla, and the upstream one if requested.
Yes. But htat has nothing to do with my point: give the user _one_ interface/bugzilla aka: make life easier for the user.
What I don't see is you're argument... are you saying that we (meaning openSUSE testers) should only have to post bugs in Novell's Bugzilla? If you're willing to help openSUSE, and know how to file bugs, why not file something upstream if you need to?
I don't know whether I didn't manage to explain correctly my point of view, whether you didn't understand it, both, or any other reason. I'll try again ... This is what I wrote: "This way, we get an organized way of reporting bugs, bugs don't get reported twice (mainstream and in Novell's bugzilla), ... That's all." What I mean is that say I post a bug upstream and another user posts the same bug at Novell's bugzilla. Oops, the same bug is reported twice in two different places. This will probably (most likely) get two different developers fixing the same bug: one guy from Novell/SUSE and one guy upstream. It doesn't mean it will happen always, it doesn't mean it's bad, it doesn't mean this is negative. What I'm talking about is making life easier for everyone. Getting organized. Users (whether they're developers or not, advanced admins or not) sometimes are not sure whether to post the bug upstream or at the distro's bugzilla. More things to take into account. Sometimes, the distro adds some patches that are not added upstream. So filing a bug upstream is of no use (openSSL bug in Debian, for example). A user (I don't care whether he's "The Best Developer in the World" or not) would have to know whether the bug he's filing is related to a patch that only appears on that specific distro he's using or not. This makes things more difficult for people that want to report bugs. If the openSUSE/SLES/SLED user report bugs only to Novell's bugzilla, it's easier for the "bug posters". And it's easy for developers/maintainers to keep track of bugs. If it's related to openSUSE/SLES/SLED, then there's no need to post upstream. If it's related upstream, then the openSUSE/SLES/SLED developer/maintainer can check and see if upstream someone's working on it. Maybe even he/she is the maintainer of that package upstream. It would also make his/her life easier. Anyways, I'm not trying to change anything. I'm not saying things are done wrong. I'm not saying anything like that. Just giving MHO on how to make things easier for everyone. That's all. I might be wrong, that's OK with me: I'm not perfect ;)
If you're talking about the openSUSE *users* (meaning Jane and Joe Smith who picked up a copy after hearing how good our product is), I don't really expect them to file bugs at all, instead getting support from the appropriate channels.
I'm not talking about "Mr. Big Cool Developer" or "Joe User". I'm talking about making life easier for both of them: file bugs in one place, not two or three different places. Imagine I'm using KDE (well, don't imagine that, because I AM :). Now I see a bug using Gwenview. I would have to think: - should I post the bug at Novell's site - should I post the bug at KDE's site - should I post the bug at Gwenview's site - should I post the bug at ... It's much easier for me to post the bug at Novell's site. You might say: "Yes, but for the developer/maintainer it's more work." I would answer: "Not necessarily. The Gwenview mantainer at Novell/SUSE is probably in the Gwenview mailing lists, forums, bugzilla, ... whatever and knows better than me if the bug has already been filed (in which case he would close the bug) or whether it's a new bug. If it's a new bug and he can fix it, he'd fix it. If it's a new bug and he can't fix it: he files it upstream. Isn't that how he does things already?" What I'm talking about is giving the end user (whether he is "Developer of the year" or "The New Kid in Town") _one_ interface/bugzilla. Obviously, this is MHO, my point of view, my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, it's OK with me. BTW, I'm not trying to change anybody's way of working, thinking, acting, writing, dancing or drinking beer (or any other activity, be it mental or physical ;) Rafa -- "We cannot treat computers as Humans. Computers need love." rgriman@skype.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org