Am Mittwoch, 30. Oktober 2019, 06:06:39 CET schrieb Simon Lees:
Hi All,
It likely comes as no surprise to anyone one that the groups in spec file issue was raised with the board (one of these was on a public list). In this specific email we are acting in our role of "helping resolve conflicts" complaints were also made directly about the behavior of certain individuals (again including on this list). The board has chosen to deal with these issues in private as is our general approach to such issues.
Firstly the board generally agrees that in the following thread [1] there was a plan and general agreement to follow it for the removal of groups if certain other issues were resolved. As such we believe they acted with good intentions when starting to remove group support from various places such as Yast, rpmlint and spec cleaner.
The board decided to wait until the discussion on new proposals settled down, before going forward with the issue, at the time we had the discussion we believed this to be the case.
Of all the proposals discussed the board agreed that the one submitted by Ludwig [2], to move groups into the repository meta data is technically the best solution and the one most broadly supported by contributors. As such we welcome any contributions from the community towards getting this working and integrated into tooling where it makes sense such as Yast and software.opensuse.org
Given that our core tooling no longer displays groups and that the board has a copy of all the existing groups that can be used as a starting point for the new system the board has decided that including groups in spec files should now be optional with the final decision resting with the maintainer as some maintainers may still use there spec files in distro's that still support groups although we believe most packages going into factory wont.
We realize that this decision will not make everyone happy but hopefully it eventually leads to better group support in the future.
1. https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2018-05/msg00460.html 2. https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2019-10/msg00263.html
Let me translate this to colloquial language: The people, that didn't care a fuzz about grouping packages and even tried to create sneaky precedents to get rid of them, decide to bury the whole topic in the backyard, where those, that care, won't dig it up again. It's a semi smart way to phase out an uncomfortable discussion (to put it politely). An external management of package grouping is doomed to die, as the amount of work will surpass it's usefulness. Well, in fact, if you reread the answers to Ludwig's proposal, you find mostly refusals or warnings to take that route. In the Pro-Grouping-Tag camp, we tried to find an easy to provide solution, that actually would *add* value to the distribution as a whole, and would set it apart for others *without* *much* *fuzz*. With a tag based grouping scheme in the rpm spec, rpmlint could *recommend* adding tags to the packager, if missing or in the old format. A tag based grouping would allow YaST to restore the group view in a much more useful way, that actually would help our users, especially the *new* ones, to find their way though the overwhelming number of packages. I remember times in the past, where I browsed through these groups in YaST to explore the hidden features, that were all in this *magical* box. And now, that we talk about, the existing group view is still great. The "special" groups are especially nice. What you're trying to enforce is something we mostly have already: patterns, but they depend on preferences of a few maintainers. The group view entries could be extended to trees from the tags, that could lead to a nice way to navigate though *all* packages in a smart way, while keeping the grouping where it belongs, in the hand of packagers (that care). I'm sure, that most packagers will welcome a polite notice from rpmlint, if it helps users to locate their packages. This decision on the other hand will lead to a less approachable product in the end. It "sells" under a fair value already, because many non mainstream abilities are hard to find without resorting to external resources. Regards, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org