On Tuesday, October 25, 2011 05:54:39 PM Brian K. White wrote:
On 10/25/2011 4:20 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
OK, my last response.
On 10/25/2011 03:56 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 10/25/2011 02:47 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
OK, after a number of years where we have worked really hard to hand control of the project to the community and have opened a lot of tools and processes to the community you still are harping on the "SUSE controls openSUSE" crap. This ticks me off big time.
It's surely a fact nonetheless. Are you disputing that?
Yes I am.
There are very few (if any) mechanisms for the community at large to make community decisions.
What kind of mechanisms are you looking for? For what decisions do we need these mechanisms?
Any and all. Or is it just old-fashioned anarchy?
Perhaps openSUSE isn't controlled by SUSE, but it certainly
isn't controlled by the community either: Well "someone" made the decision to have KDE as the default desktop, and "someone" made the decision about the new numbering scheme, and "someone" made the decision about the release cycle, and .....
Right, like you say so eloquently, "someone".
I'll give you a hint, these decisions were not made by SUSE.
Don't be shy, give me more than a hint, how were those decisions made?
For the version numbering we had a long therad on the -project mailing list and then we voted.
Who the heck is on -project? There are eleventy-seven opensuse mail lists and it's unreasonable to subscribe to them all. This stuff needs to be on a wiki and web forum that's easy for anyone to browse, search, and comment, requiring only one site login registration, not subscribing to dozens of different mail lists and then having to set up dozens of mail filter rules in your mail client, and then having to use that mail client on that one pc all the time because your mail servers web mail interface can't do all that and doing that much setup on multiple random pc's is ridiculous... It can still be email too at the same time like yahoo groups or google groups etc because sometimes email IS the most efficient for some workflows.
I frankly hate the idea. I want an OS that is solidly tested and has some distinct changes to account for the version change, not one that was pushed out ready or not because an arbitrary date arrived.
For instance, for a while Frederic Crozat (formerly with Mandriva, now SUSE) has been in charge of coordinating/running/whatever the systemd integration targeted for 12.1 - I don't remember anyone publicly asking the community (paid or otherwise) for volunteers for that job?
This sounds like Jon "Maddog" Hall's favorite tag line. "People are waiting for a letter of permission". That's not how things work. Federic stepped up to the plate and decided he wanted to do this.
What a STUPID reason to change such a major and core component of the OS! It affects every package that attempts to know about booting and shutting down or starting/stopping any service or daemon!
That is NOT the only reason this is happening.
I would have happily "stepped up" and prevented the wiki from being overhauled the way it was. It happened anyways. More of that non-existing suse control...
Similar Ilya is stepping up to the plate to maintain KDE3 and he is doing the work, I doubt Ilya sat around an waited for the "letter of permission".
And Ilya gets thwarted at every step. Plenty of users want kde3, only a few people at SUSE do not, and so he gets no help and users get no supported kde3 nor kde3 live iso nor kde3 install option. Generally, I agree with your sentiments. I personally love KDE4, if a community rallies around KDE3 then it will gain traction. On a side note, in regards to our obvious and painful disorganization I and some others are evaluating adapting Kablink which is the open source version of Novell Vibe for much of this purpose. We of course need to see what can be done with that before even presenting it to the community. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org