On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
What 'builds' are you doing? Why are you doing them on btrfs? Would it make more sense to do them in a subvolume and therefore immunise yourself entirely from the snapshotting of the root subvolume and the quota there?
Would it make more sense to use XFS for your non-system data, like SUSE recommend, like openSUSE implements by default and I would also recommend?
Permission to do something in a GUI installer is by definition that which is supported and recommended, it's just that defaults are more highly recommended. It is untenable to blame the user, even a little, by not using defaults. If you think Btrfs has too many problems for /home, then inhibit the installer from allowing it. A GUI installer is a user advocate. If it betrays the user with bad advice that is the fault of the installer and its development team.
So back to the point here - the Leap 42.2 kernel is the same kernel that will be released in SLE 12 SP2. That means kernel 4.4 with SUSE's Enterprise patches, and will be receiving SUSE's enterprise maintenance updates until Leap moves to something else.
This is not the Tumbleweed kernel. It is not the current 4.7 Tumbleweed Kernel. It is not the Kernel you have found your issues with quotas on.
This is not reassuring, quite the opposite. Quota support isn't even stable in 4.7 let alone 4.4. So what you've just told me is that there is a secret decoder ring in place for the Leap and SLE kernels. I just have no idea whether you're using 4.7 backports to 4.4? Or if you're using some totally different out of tree quota code. So what's going to happen is any Leap user using a Leap kernel comes on the upstream list and people are going to say two things: 1. Disable quotas. 2. Use a vanilla stable or mainline kernel. OR Go to opensuse.org and ask your question their, it's their kernel, their tools, their defaults, their recommendations, and you can get support from them. Because no one upstream has any interest whatsoever understanding Ubuntu, CentOS, RHEL, or openSUSE Leap's secret f'n decoder ring for whatever the hell "4.4" kernel actually means when it comes to *anything* related to Btrfs.
So, while I appreciate your experience with Tumbleweed may have you concerned, your testing on Tumbleweed is invalid in the context of Leap 42.2.
It's only invalid if your quota support in the Leap kernel doesn't come from upstream code being backported. If you're using out of tree code, then you're right. If opensuse is using backports from upstream code I absolutely can extrapolate from a 4.7.x and 4.8.x kernel. People have had problems with that code base, even very recently within the past few days, and Qu is working on that.
I would request you use the opportunity of the Beta to test the Beta, and if bugs are present, file them in bugzilla.opensuse.org against the Beta.
No thanks. I don't have the time. You've received the message, do what you want with it. I've suggested your snapper defaults are crap, you guys don't listen to that, so you just want to push forward with more pathological nonsense. You're papering over the previous bad snapper behaviors with quotas instead of fixing the nutcase snapper defaults. Fine. Live with it. Trust me, if your Tumbleweed or Leap users or Btrfs get a black eye over this decision, I will be far less diplomatic about it. Neither deserve to be treated like guinea pigs just because someone is in too big of a hurry and thinks it's OK to use the community as a public beta testing pool. And even that's too diplomatic because the behavior I'm seeing with quotas doesn't even deserve the "beta" quality label yet.
We have no evidence at this time that the quota functionality as we have it in Leap 42.2 is not ready for use, and your opinions, while very passionately stated, are not based on information relevant to Leap 42.2.
If you think it's ready, put these defaults on your build systems before subjecting your hapless users to it. When anyone asks on linux-btrfs@ about quota support, without fail the list response is, use XFS (or even ext4) because it has stable quota support, Btrfs doesn't. The best way to characterize it, is that it's ready for testing. So if that's what you meant, that's what you should be saying rather than treating me like a moron which is *exactly* what you're doing when you say there's no evidence it's not ready for use, because there is ample evidence upstream. No upstream developer has ever said it's stable, use it. They've only said test it. -- Chris Murphy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org