On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 06:24:29AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 5:25 AM Michal Suchánek <msuchanek@suse.de> wrote:
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 08:49:17AM +0000, Martin Wilck wrote:
On Fr, 2021-05-28 at 12:14 +0200, Juergen Gross wrote:
On 28.05.21 11:08, Martin Wilck wrote:
OTOH, by actively moving to libera.chat, you'd quite obviously support _them_. Which is not a thing I feel much tempted to do, either.
True. OFTC might be the better choice.
It seems that the ship has sailed. The topic of #suse on freenode says "We're moving to #suse on Libera.chat".
I wonder if those who made the decision to do this, whoever it was, even considered alternatives. But well, Gerald had told us right from the start that there was "consensus" (in whatever group) to move to libera.chat.
Is it just me thinking that the way large-scale policy issues for openSUSE are decided needs improvement? I realize that those who aren't happy with the quick libera.chat move are probably a minority. But if there'd been a poll, we'd at least know that.
I think politically moving to OFTC is better because you move away from the freenode problem, both sides of it. It is better technically too because libera.chat infrastructure is in the process if being built while OFTC is running and stable.
There's no such thing as avoiding politics. It's foolish to consider that possible, and avoiding dealing with problems head-on is how you wind up becoming useless. Regardless, openSUSE as a community is about
But also taking on problems or taking sides in quarrels that are not relevant to you is another path to uselessness.
people and relationships, and we've had a long and fruitful one with the Freenode staff going back over two decades. It's unfortunate that this happened, but we should work with and support the people who have had *our* backs for so long. In my mind, if we're continuing IRC services, then it was a no-brainer to continue by migrating to Libera Chat. Not to mention, most of the projects *we* work with in openSUSE *already* moved to Libera Chat. And because IRC is not a federated system like Matrix is, it *matters* what network we're on.
In the end, I think this quote sums up my attitude on this:
“Technology does not run an enterprise, relationships do.” -- Patricia Fripp
You artfully removed the part where I mentioned that this may be a reason when quoting my e-mail.
My personal feeling, though, is that IRC is not even the center of the openSUSE community anymore. The converged Matrix+Discord+Telegram community is several orders of magnitude bigger, and has become the main point of presence for most folks new to openSUSE. Sasi and others have done a great job nurturing a welcoming community there. We have more folks on Matrix than we do all the IRC channels.
If you want to go with "the only winning move is not to play", then we would be leaving IRC altogether for Matrix. I don't think that openSUSE is *quite* ready for that move yet.
-- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!