Can we agree that packman is the most important user repo of openSUSE so that it should be treated special?
I'm afraid I cannot. I can agree that Packman is an important repo for providing some patent encumbered packages.
some? Those are really important for desktop users. thats the reason why they were patented. If you want to watch videos (offline, non-flash) or hear music (except mp3) you most definetly need packman.
I have the highest respect for the work they're doing, but I have strong, often negative, opinions of the general quality of their packages,
can you elaborate on the quality? why this negative opinion?
Generally speaking, I trust a package from Packman no more than I would trust a random home: repo on OBS, which isn't very high.
so again - why not setup openQA also for packman? Nobody answered this yet. Is this an unreasonable request?
The openSUSE Project works hard to only provide tested software of a high quality.
true. TW is very stable thanks to openQA and all your hard work. but quality lies also in functionality and in this respect openSUSE lacks multimedia quality due to patents. Why do some other distros (ubuntu) do not have those problems? Do they pay?
c) after adding packman do auto zypper dup or up with vendor change once: PackageKit / Apper cannot handle conflicts and thus is not supported in TW. => solutions: 1) enhance Apper to handle conflicts
Please remember that KDE is not the only desktop environment we have on offer, nor is it the only one that is a good choice for the beginners you are targeting with your efforts.
gnome-software and muon also use PackageKit and also cannot handle conflicts. Apper was an example. Is there any chance that conflict-handling can be included in packagekit? What are the other choices you mention? yast-gui is not it, is it?
2) automatizing zypper: noobs cannot use cron, nor command line / yast-gui, nor can they decide between "no / vendor change", "up / dup" => further comments: A users confirmation to install the automatically proposed update is desired, agreed. A password will be needed for new software only, as this is already the way PackageKit/Apper & Win7 (just tested) are doing it from user accounts.
This is already done in GNOME with GNOME Software/PackageKit
what exactly. automatic updates for TW on Gnome are working and enabled? Even if zypper is the only recommended update/upgrade method for TW? if so, great! Then lets activate apper for KDE TW again, it is not activated per default, nor working, nor recommended now. Nor does it handle conflicts.
d) install recommends only once during installation as default, so that uninstalled apps do not come back => so far +1 for this
For me you had a +1 for this _for servers & advanced users_, but a strong -1 for _desktops for beginners_.
If you want a nice noob-friendly desktop, you shouldn't expect a beginner to know they have to install a whole bunch of optional packages, and just give them all to them at all the time.
I'd argue that someone who cares about the presence of additional packages they don't need/use is by definition, not a beginner.
ok, good point. did not see it that way. we can erase this one from my list :D
e) I would update the whole wiki with the changes
Thanks!
welcome. cheers, tomme -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org