we all have to believe, because in reality we know nothing. you may believe in the output of some computer network that monitors a particle accelerator and declare that prticle [x] has been discovered, only to be refuted later when somebody else discovers particle [y]. i believe in god, and i've chosen a particular way to try to learn more and get closer to the purpose of life, which i believe exists -- but i KNOW that both of us may be wrong, and that others, who choose a different way to that 'god,' are probably as right as i am. all of us are limited due to our very fallible human nature, and that includes brian k. white.
just because you put quite a lot of things together, ignoring the subtle things that make religion and science miles apart, I may make some points.. in a general sense all of us are believers. all system of thoughts are based on believing something... or if you want to be scientific, assuming some hypothesis. This is the place where the believers start to split... in what I like to think dogmatic and critical thinkers. the science which is the example you used... indeed starts with the statement there is X... and then puts all the machinery of critical thinking to establish some value of true or false to that statement... if true... the machinery continues and nice consequences are obtained... making your life better. if false a new statement is generated and the critical thinking process continues... the problem with the statement there is a god... or if you want in a more philosophical manner, there is a primordial cause... is that once one applies the critical thinking process the outcome is the there is a god or there is not god... cannot be proved... The critical thinker... will say... I cannot use something I cannot prove to get a system of thoughts... the dogmatic believer will say there is a god... and then build his system of thoughts... with the consequences that we see today... probably Nietzsche put it the best with his God is dead. Of course you will find well versed believers how will tell you... that science cannot give you a moral system... law of gravitation will not tell you what is good to eat... to rich heaven. indeed moral systems come from ethics... And ethics is fully under the governance of critical thinking... and absurd outcomes are discarded.. On the other hand certain system of thought, of religious inspiration will not change their moral rules even when the absurdity is shown via the critical thinking process and they will dismiss the outcome on the base of work of devil, devils, negative forces. In past times and even nowadays religion equates ethics in certain spaces, as source of moral... and that is in my humble opinion a sorry state. Now you may come with the argument that many people cannot be wrong, and there are plenty being religious around. I will invite them, then to see if a statement like that stands the critical thinking process. Who were the wrongs or the rights? The Christian who massacred Muslims or the Muslims who massacred the Christians. these are just simple facts that happened in the last 1000 years in Europe and Middle East. The Hindus who hacked to pieces Muslims or the Muslims who hacked to pieces Hindus... that was sometime in the last 100 years on the Indian subcontinent.. and all of them started simple by the fact that there is a god (in its various flavours) was assumed true by many. And of course one can give a lot of examples of the absurdity that assuming true a statement like there is a god! Personally I think more the religious ideas are exposed to critical thinking better for society... more people are allowed to question them faster the society will move towards a better place... but maybe all this is just wishful thinking... Alin -- Without Questions there are no Answers! _____________________________________________________________________ Alin Marin ELENA Advanced Molecular Simulation Research Laboratory School of Physics, University College Dublin ---- Ardionsamblú Móilíneach Saotharlann Taighde Scoil na Fisice, An Coláiste Ollscoile, Baile Átha Cliath ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://alin.elenaworld.net ______________________________________________________________________