On 2023-04-21 08:46, Felix Niederwanger wrote:
We can do whatever we want in our own openSUSE:ALP:Products namespace
which might indicate a possible contribution path.
The openSUSE:ALP:Products will absolutely have a contribution path - no one is going to be putting anything in there without community contributions ;)
This is still a little bit unsatisfactory, as future products developed atop of ALP are still community products atop of SUSE ALP and thereby exposed to any alterations/disruptions coming from there. Especially looking at the future of a possible Leap successor atop of SUSE ALP, the first thing we probably would need are some kind of stability guarantees, which are very unlikely to happen any time soon.
We all agree the status quo is unsatisfactory, but, it's what we can do with what we've got right now - and the limitations in play are coming from all sides, so it's not like anyone can point to either SUSE or openSUSE and say "ya'll should have done better".
This is however a discussion well beyond the scope of this mailing list.
It is, but it isn't - as you eloquently point out, given the symbiotic relationship between SUSE and openSUSE, then openSUSE certainly will have an interest in making sure ALP develops in a compatible way going forward. So, how do I see it developing going forward? Well, once we get these initial ALP offerings out of the way by both SUSE and openSUSE I do want to revisit adding a contribution path into the SUSE-developed parts of the ALP stack. This may leverage the work going on in parallel right now with a git-based workflow, it might not. It might leverage the existing (but pretty painfully flawed) OBS<>IBS request mirroring that we've tried to use with Leap but with pretty significant pain as a result, it might not. I dunno, but, I (and I think everyone else) wants to see some way of community contributions getting into the SUSE developed parts of ALP, just now isn't going to be the time we figure that out. But imagine we get the above all figured out, and implemented. We've have a path to contributing to in-development ALP versions; then there would still be the question of "what about the next ALP version"? We're used to having openSUSE:Factory producing Tumbleweed (which is like SLE) and MicroOS (which is like SLE Micro), and as a result SUSE has a constant rolling reference to draw from that (pretty smoothly) can be pulled and form the basis of their new versions of SLE and SLE Micro. We don't have that for ALP yet, given the very definition of what SUSE ALP is has been under heavy development. So, we absolutely need to look at this issue too, like Alberto said in his suggestion. I'm interested in adapting openSUSE:Factory so it can keep producing Tumbleweed, and MicroOS, and 'next' versions of all the SUSE ALP products. This, arguably, would also be a direct contribution path, maybe not to the exact codebase that SUSE will be using for specific ALP versions, but absolutely to what SUSE will use in future ALP versions. That will come - to be utterly honest it's what I'd much rather be looking at right now instead of everything we're discussing in this thread, but I understand we've got to get some stuff done before I can have fun with that ;) -- Richard Brown Distributions Architect SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Frankenstraße 146, D-90461 Nuremberg, Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Directors/Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Martje Boudien Moerman