On 09/26/2012 12:49 PM, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.com> [2012-09-26 21:16]:
On 09/26/2012 07:09 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Just in case no one else has noticed - there is absolutely no (0, zero) benefit to anyone (user/admin/developer/packager/whoever) in omitting syslog from the default pattern/install. Yet it was suggested and we have been discussing it for quite some time now. I submit it should never have been suggested and certainly not discussed without someone arguing _why_ it is of benefit to the end user and hence worthwhile doing.
I think the suggestion was completely pointless and in the end only caused unnecessary consternation among those openSUSE users that have a use for syslog. The majority of the default openSUSE users (90% according to the thread) don't care anyway, so why waste effort on upsetting the 10%?
Per, let's not continue bike shedding here. Let's collect the facts first and then decide.
Here's a quick intro about the journal: The journal is integrated into systemd and supported by the Linux kernel. It is a cryptographically protected (allowing knowing when From the limited info on FSS, it seems that it is inherently racy as sealing happens in certain intervals giving an attacker a time window to conceal its tracks, furthermore it depends on cryptographic technology which hasn't even undergone basic peer review yet. So this seems to be mostly marketing, not a serious replacement for secure remote logging for enviroments that require this. On the other hand log integrity is pretty useless for a random stand-alone home desktop.
it was tampered with by potential attackers), strongly typed logfile in comparison to /var/log/messages. It comes with some new tools to Through project Lumberjack both rsyslog and syslog-ng are coordinating to allow for structured logging in a common CEE-based format through the existing syslog API. rsyslog also supports RFC5424 structured data though its future seems unclear.
access it. The journal integrates nicely with syslog/rsyslog, you can use them in parallel.
I consider it as a logging solution for stand-alone desktops.
For a stand-alone desktop, the majority of users does not need syslog if the journal is available.
And the stand-alone desktop is the primary target of openSUSE. That's very unfortunate for those of us who also use it on servers as such use cases seem to get less and less testing and attention.
Ditto. I took over servers running SuSE in 2002 and had been running Redhat/Fedora/Slackware previous to that. openSUSE is my distribution of choice for servers, laptops and Desktops. In my opinion (worth what you payed for it), it has been much better put together than it's nearest competition and much more manageable, without regard to marketing/popularity. Tghe last couple of releases have been rocky, at best, and made it more difficult for me to support as a choice for/to my customers. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org