On 01/07/2019 15:44, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Monday, 1 July 2019 7:31 Simon Lees wrote:
On 01/07/2019 02:45, Michal Kubecek wrote:
Well, I wasn't talking about some people's interpretation of certain vaguely formulated policies, I was talking about what things are like in real life. And I tried to tell you what is the real life fallout of some of the policies you advocate for so strongly. It's good to see that you understand there is a problem; but what makes me sad is that you took it from the wrong end again. Rather that thinking about what Factory maintainers could change so that they would not drive potential (and real) packagers away from Factory, your first thought is "Hey, they should not do that on company time!" Disappointing...
Well that's not what I was trying to do I was more trying to point out that while what you describe might happen in parts of SUSE its not what SUSE is doing in most places and what SUSE as a company is encouraging its employees to do.
Unlike you, I don't dare to guess how big the two parts are and which of them deserves the term "most places". What I'm certain of is that in the parts I'm in closest contact with, it often feels I'm one of the very few who still bother. But if you still insist that what you are doing is for the greater good and we just don't understand it, feel free to go on imposing more loops for others to hop through to make your work easier, keep tightening the screws and driving people away from the project.
If the previous paragraph sounds harsh, it's only because you don't hear what some other people say about openSUSE and Factory and their policies and rules and the way they are enforced. It might come as an unpleasant surprise to you (you as plural, not singular). Make no mistake, I'm not happy about that and I would really appreciate if their attitude were different. But as I said, I can't really blame them.
So if I package, say, Google's packetdrill for openSUSE and SLE so that I and other people can use it for our work but do not feel like going through the ordeal of getting it to Factory and keeping it there, I'm the bad guy. If I didn't do anything, everything would be much better. Is that really what you wanted to say?
I will disagree that it is an ordeal into getting something into factory, other then the wait on legal reviews I don't tend to have issues at most fixing stuff to be correct generally takes me 5 minutes, maybe that's just because I do it so often that I naturally write packages that comply with our rules, or maybe the kinds of packages I write are different and therefore don't have the same issues.
That's one part of the problem: you are one of the people enforcing the rules so that it's no surprise you find them natural and desirable. One might even notice that the "overall consent" that Stefan is completely wrong and that the he just doesn't understand was from people like that.
Although i'm on the review team generally others are handling most of the work and I only really step in to help when the queue gets really long, so I spend far more time submitting packages then I do reviewing them.
If you have examples of "bureaucracy" that you think could be reduced or removed this list is the place to discuss them, although this thread was about a bot blocking a certain style rather then causing someone significantly more effort.
And this is another: whatever example I come with - and the incident which started this thread is a striking example in my (our) eyes - you are going to say it's not an example, it's just a rule and it's a good rule and makes the project better. I might mention that every few months there is a new arbitrary and unnecessary style rule that requires people to rewrite their specfiles and often requires breaking build against SLE (and sometimes even Leap) versions which are still supported; I might even list some really crazy examples; but I have pretty good idea what the reply would be. So I guess I don't have any example - or rather none that you would accept as an example.
I'm interested to here some of these new rules, because I don't recall discussing them here, I also don't recall rewriting any spec files in the last two years, I even have some RS-232 related packages that I have been maintaining for 2+ years and haven't had to change yet (and hadn't changed for a while before that). I don't think we should be rewriting spec files for no good reason, that's just a waste of time. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org