On 25 April 2017 at 00:29, Markos Chandras <mchandras@suse.de> wrote:
On 04/24/2017 11:14 PM, Simon Lees wrote:
On 04/25/2017 06:56 AM, Markos Chandras wrote:
On 04/24/2017 01:32 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Monday, 24 April 2017 12:07 Simon Lees wrote:
On 04/24/2017 07:06 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
In a real company/product (like SLE), there would be a PR and sales department preventing from jumping backwards surely. Just because openSUSE does not have these two suddenly makes it ok?
SUSE does have some of those people, I believe they chose to jump from 12 to 15 which is what triggered this change in the first place.
Right. But what openSUSE Board just decided to do is could be rather compared to the hypothetical (I sincerely hope) situation if in a few years our marketing guys said "we did some more research and apparently IT people are not as afraid of 13 and 14 as we thought, let's do SLE13 as next version (i.e. after 15)". Just skipping from 12 to 15 could be rather compared to skipping from 13 to 42.
Michal Kubeček
Sounds like a lot of these problems could have been avoided if SLE simply went for 45 instead of 15. Honestly, that couldn't have been any worse than jumping backwards.
In such cases is almost always better to rename the project, in this case 'Leap' to something else, to signal this major change and avoid confusion. Just like it happened for 13.X and Leap. Because going backwards is a major change and we will have to explain the reasoning for quite a while.
But when we changed the name from openSUSE 13.X to openSUSE Leap it was because the way we develop openSUSE Leap with a SLE base is fundamentally different to the way we developed openSUSE in the past, we haven't changed the way were developing openSUSE here so there really is no reason to remove "Leap" as "Leap 15.X" will still be developed the same way "Leap 42.X" was.
Well, yes, but then you need to explain over and over why 15 is newer than 42 and why this was considered to be a good decision.. And while it's somewhat easy to explain all that in this list, openSUSE is also being discussed in so many other places so you can't really contain it and prevent people from making the wrong assumptions about this decision.
However, if you rename the whole thing then people will disassociate Leap/42 with Foobar/15 so no questions will be asked (at least not as many as we are asking right now)
I remember people saying the same when we jumped to 42.x just over two years ago. In many ways, they were wrong - I didn't spend as much time as I expected repeating that message. It's been over a year since I had to deal with a question on the topic. One year of having to answer questions about why 15? Sure, I can live with that. But at the same time, I don't intend to live with that. We learned lessons from 42.x's numbering. We never made a clear announcement as to why, we only announced what we were doing, This time, the opening mail to this thread contained a clear, verbose, end to end justification, explaining the history, the other options considered, and the reasoning that was most prominent in the Boards minds when choosing 15. Unlike last time, this announcement was sent clearly and prominently, which has been noted by several media outlets. LWN, Phoronix, Golem for example have all done a fair job of both summarising the decision, its reasons, but also linked or quoted to the mail in full. While obviously no decision like this is universally welcomed, the tone of the comments on those various news outlets includes a frequency and volume of positivity which may not be reflected on this list but does give me considerable hope that we are doing a very good job of spreading this message well and that the "Leap is close to SLE" message is offsetting any disruption from the "openSUSE did what with their versions again?" message. This thread of positivity regarding the change has also been reflected in various social media platforms, such as our Forums, Facebook, Twitter, Google+ and Reddit. This is something I do not remember from the 42.x change - I would describe the mood back then as one of considerably more confusion than 15 is causing now. So all things considered, I'm not that displeased with how Leap 15 is being accepted by the big wide world so far. I think we're doing a better job of getting the message out in a digestable way than the last time we did this, and I think it helps that Leap 15 is just a whole lot more boring than 42. And boring is good for Leap, I don't mind if this is the last time it ever gets in the news for any reason besides the solid, moderately paced incremental update of its software and its features within.
-- markos
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