* Per Jessen <per@computer.org> [2012-09-26 19:09]:
Just in case no one else has noticed - there is absolutely no (0, zero) benefit to anyone (user/admin/developer/packager/whoever) in omitting syslog from the default pattern/install. Yet it was suggested and we have been discussing it for quite some time now. I submit it should never have been suggested and certainly not discussed without someone arguing _why_ it is of benefit to the end user and hence worthwhile doing.
No wonder, not even the authors themselves are able to do that, and try to distract from that by pointing out shortcomings of syslog from 30 years ago conveniently ignoring any advancements and standardization efforts since then. In contrast to systemd's booting it which undeniably has some benefits over sysvinit the journal stuff doesn't offer anything worthwhile over rsyslog or syslog-ng. And I fear we'll have such "discussions" over and over again as systemd introduces more and more cheap ripoffs of other Apple technologies.
I think the suggestion was completely pointless and in the end only caused unnecessary consternation among those openSUSE users that have a use for syslog. The majority of the default openSUSE users (90% according to the thread) don't care anyway, so why waste effort on upsetting the 10%?
Not necessarily upsetting, rather many tools and existing scripts are geared towards towards syslog logs and not some undocumented byinary format which, in case something goes wrong, are only guaranteed to be readable using the exact same systemd version they were written with... Since syslog is in the BASIS pattern it'll be missing from server default installs as well which IMO is unacceptable. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org