I don't think people get the meta message. I haven't seen this type of outcry against this type of movement since ... ???forever??? in the software community... I haven't seen this type of antipathy between BSD/SysV (though I had a hint from a bitter BSD'er who was changing posix to suit them now that the sysV folks were out of the way), or the Win/Mac camps.... It's close to similar, but is it really been at this level? People should at least think about the meta message regarding this level of sustained -- and broadening hostility over time concerning this design... It's a fundamental redesign to take how everything is connected in the open with shells and duct tape and bailing wire at times to a "everything happens inside the monolith"....It's going from an "out in the open" type system to a "closed" system. Doesn't matter that systemd is open source. You can't read it while it boots up and is running. You can't tweak a line while it is running and see what happens. While it has MANY benefits, the way it has been done resembles the actions of a totalitarian government implementing a new linux order -- and that rankles me more than many of the changes. This note isn't designed to get anyone to change their mind -- those are closed and everyone has given in to fatalistic "its too late" -- just relax and enjoy it." It's important to remember where this is going and the type of people driving it. It's also surprising to me how many different software functions are being replaced. And how much of the character of these systems will change from the gnu-linux or unix systems we've grown up with. I am still pretty certain this is not a grassroots, community inspired method that is being made available -- but a well funded and fairly well planned move to make linux able (and default) to being a "trusted-software" only platform, where "jail-broken" installations won't be as difficult to come by, but will have more "gotcha"s... like more external features not working with your system. Similarly is the idea of having your system have a 2-way layer of protection in the form of a firewall that can't easily be subverted by apps. Either you open up your system to unregulated (by you) traffic from the internet, or you don't get access to services. I've seen a whole bunch of services come to be offered that just won't work with me controlling net traffic in and out of my system. Some don't even work behind a NAT'ed connection either. I believe similar service blocking to be very likely likely with the work coming out of systemd --- where even if you do run a system outside of the systemd paradigm, you'll find problems interacting with external sites increasing. Oh well... I at least hope readers realize I'm not going off about systemd in particular -- but more the methodology and design philosophy behind it and what a departure it is from what has been standard O.P. Cheers... I'm sure we will all be reaping the outcome of what is being sown today. Not sure how that will look, but history hasn't shown the results of totalitarian dictators to be nice to those that have to live with the aftermath of such changes regardless of their technical merit. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org