Raymond Wooninck composed on 2015-05-06 09:31 (UTC+0200):
...At this moment we have a team of 4 people...
You are constantly talking about that we are particular sensitive, etc. Did you ever really read through all the comments we got.
I read until it gets involved in apps I never use, then skip to next, so I could have missed something about Konsole buried under a mountain of Ktorrent, Kopete or Kmail.
And not only now, but also in the past 2 years. There has been a constant stream of complaints about every little thing we did or tried to do.
I don't think the complaints have had much if anything to do with what the 4 openSUSE people do. The complaints are about upstream's work product, decision making, policy, and attitude on KDE mailing lists, bugs.kde.org and forums. It's what mine have been at least. But many complaints go here instead of upstream because here is a comfort zone, AND, we know at least some of "the four" communicate with upstream probably a lot better than users and mere testers do.
What we asked for is constructive feedback to help us moving things forward and to properly address things. Did we got that, no.
You asked to have bugs filed. Some of us did that. I did that, and commented to confirm reproduction of recently filed bugs. Filing bugs is generally constructive. Nobody gets everything they want. What the collective you wanted was 100% positive, 0% negative, and "you" didn't get it. Then "you" see the resulting cup half empty instead of half full, or because not entirely full, entirely empty. Bugs are problems, faults, imperfections, aggravations, impediments. Such things are hard to filter out in a forum whose very purpose in large part is identifying problems so that they might be corrected. But then once a behavior is identified, before it can be corrected, there typically needs to be consensus what the best correction should be, if even any correction should be made at all. There's no way all this can be candy coated 100% positive. Painting a happy face on problems is hard. Some people are better at it than others. Some don't even try. But there's also interpretation and language issues involved here. One man's constructive can be another's negative. Often there's a mixture of both, particularly more negative when an issue is a nagging old issue that involves tedium or worse to do anything about and gets put off and put off and put off in favor of fun things. I wrote what I wrote about sensitivity because that's what it looks like when a complaint about a complaint occurs, as if the complaint were directed to the messenger (the four) rather than the product (upstream).
I know that most likely only a minority of the openSUSE community is the one most active on the mailinglists, but this minority is ruining the motivation of people that are actually doing things.
Believe it or not, even though I'm not a programmer, I am doing things intended to benefit KDE and openSUSE. I install, I update, I test, and sometimes I even work on the Wiki. Then I report, mostly not about what works, but what doesn't, often resulting in bugs filed both upstream and not. I don't have to do anything, but I do what I do to the betterment of both KDE and openSUSE, and this in spite of the fact that I don't find V4/V5 suitable for personal use, and find a lot of what I do tedious and little fun. It isn't just "the four" that are being discouraged by what is and is not happening.
Can you tell me why I should continue for something that I am not being paid for, doing it in my spare time besides a full-time job, instead of spending this time with my family, friends and doing things that are more rewarding ???
But congratulations. You managed really to take the fun I had with openSUSE complety away
If you don't like it, find something you do like. Better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable. For sure if you can find something you like better that pays you too, go for it. You could learn to not let the parts that bother you affect you, see the glass half full, and find whatever good is mixed amongst what you perceive to be bad.
and I would be happy to hand everything over to you and that you start maintaining packages. Maybe I will keep on using openSUSE and then I can start complaining to you that I am missing functionality, etc.
Which is more constructive, feedback perceived as negative, or no feedback at all? If I was a programmer or packager, and for sure I'm not and unlikely ever will be, I'd rather gorge on the negative than get nothing, then wind up with a repeat of the infamous KDE3 to KDE4 transition because I wasn't aware there were material problems particularly for "upgraders". That you want it to be ready and are tired of the dreg of trying to reach a ready state in a lengthy and complicated ground up rebuild from scratch does not equate to ready to unleash on mere mortal users assuming newer equates to better. I commend "the four" for the restraint they've managed so far in balancing upstream's enthusiasm for their new baby against the realities of users who don't like having "fixed" what ain't broke trying to get real work done with the complicated tools that computers are. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org