On 07/19/2010 10:16 PM, Dale Ritchey wrote:
On 07/19/2010 10:22 AM, madworm_de.novell@spitzenpfeil.org wrote:
Well...
the last time I felt the urge to comment on such things was the blatant failure of the rescue/repair system in 10.2 (or was is 10.3 ?). A fact that could have been discovered in 2 minutes by almost anybody. I'm bold enough to believe that even a reasonable intelligent parrot could have discovered it and rightfully started a squawking tantrum, biting the the next best person until blood drips off the "commit-button finger".
Maybe it is time to reconsider what is important:
a) Not missing a release date/cycle at all cost, shipping "crap" (before I get fried: this is an intentional exaggeration) to the users and move all existing bug reports to the next version. b) Letting the cheese/wine properly mature until it becomes really tasty. This clearly takes more time and more testers.
I understand that most bugs can only be found by actually using the software, and herein lies THE problem. I don't have an issue with testing a live CD in Virtualbox now and then, but that won't show most issues with hardware (fake raid controllers etc.). I and certainly most of the other casual testers won't want to trash a working system with "crap". Installing a reasonably aged release candidate would be OK I guess.
What is a release of openSUSE supposed to be? Cutting edge "crap" that needs a few "service packs", or something a bit less colorful that just works? Or is "it just works" monopolized by SLED?
R.
Am I reading you right? You don't want to test except maybe a minimal. And the use launguage like this. The language you are using is quite unacceptable
I can write in German if you prefer a different 'language', and be more explicit about my views on certain things. This is certainly not what you want, believe me. BTW, the answer is NO. Regarding "crap": Using that word was a deliberate exaggeration (which I informed the readers about btw). Purpose: to provoke a reaction other than just "yeah, heard that one before. that's not really a problem, so we'll just fix it next time... maybe". I'm glad I've got your full attention now. "Crap" or maybe even "Heap of ...." is most likely what will be coming out of a "could have been a new openSUSE"-user's mouth if (as stated in the first mail about "gross bugs in GM") _certain_ things don't work for _whatever_ reason. It doesn't matter if the remaining 99.9% work as expected. That's just the way it is. If you need/want a certain feature and don't get it right away the result is... inevitable. Denial is futile. Regarding "minimal testing": I'm a paranoid, ignorant and lazy bastard, just like most people out there. I just don't happen to have a spare computer I can dedicate to just doing test installations (except three or four 486 machines, but they'd be of no use nowadays). Testing stuff in a VM I can do anytime, but the information gained is of limited value as far as real hardware is concerned. And I just can't do any critical stuff on my main machines. Sure I've got lots of backups in safe places and separate data partitions, but it's just not going to happen. Never change a running system. Some of the vital questions are: How to do more useful testing effectively? Is it enough to ask people to download live CDs and just look for "everything" at once? More automated testing maybe? A more flexible release cycle? Who really can oppose a delayed release if things get fixed, except maybe the [censored] sales [censored]. ----------- @BC: "I didn't ask to be made: no one consulted me or considered my feelings in the matter. I don't think it even occurred to them that I might have feelings. After I was made, I was left in a dark room for six months... and me with this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side. I called for succour in my loneliness, but did anyone come? Did they hell. My first and only true friend was a small rat. One day it crawled into a cavity in my right ankle and died. I have a horrible feeling it's still there..." R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org