On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 9:31 AM Martin Wilck <Martin.Wilck@suse.com> wrote:
On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 07:11 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 4:49 AM Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de> wrote:
On Jun 09 2020, Ondřej Súkup wrote:
-- developer --> Tumbleweed ( and all devel repos have TW enabled)
That's cmpletely backwards. As a developer you need a *stable* system.
That doesn't mean you need a *stale* system (i.e. Leap).
Come on guys, this discussion is pointless. We have Leap *and* TW precisely to give people a choice.
The starting point of the discussion was the idea to provide Leap users access to up-to-date software in those areas where they need it, while keeping the rest of the system stable. That's a very reasonable thing to want to have.
The question is how to get there. Up-to-date software on older distros can e.g. be obtained by using flatpak, but AFAICS flatpak is no 1st class citizen on openSUSE. Also, it works best for "leaf" packages, less so for other things.
As for regular packaging, I hear people say that devel repos don't work for this purpose, because they're all targeted for factory. I wonder whether that has to be that way. In some areas (Rust?) it seems to be commonplace to have to update the entire stack just to be able to install a single leaf package. Even that might be possible on Leap, if such stacks were sufficiently separate from the main OS stack. In other areas, maintaining a Leap version means probably just a number of conditionals in the spec file. It's about whether or not developers care, and invest time into fixing Leap issues.
In general, I believe we should educate ourselves not to mechanically respond "install Tumbleweed" when users ask for features.
openSUSE's update process is *far* too painful to keep things fresh. I personally avoid it unless I have to do it, and only submit things to Tumbleweed. If there were no SUSE maintainers in devel:languages:rust, I would have killed *all* stale releases in devel:languages:rust. The whole point of Leap is that it reflects "enterprise stability" (aka stale software that is carefully managed by SUSE). If you want a distribution with newer stuff, then we'd have to revisit the gap we have between Leap and Tumbleweed. If you want fresher stuff landing in Leap, then we need a less painful maintenance update process, and we need reviews to scale up with more packages being submitted that way. It's already bad enough that openSUSE:Factory doesn't have enough people to review all the packages that get submitted into Factory now. You can't have your cake and eat it too. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org