On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 10:48:59AM +0200, Richard Brown wrote:
On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 10:40 +0200, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 10:15:10AM +0200, Richard Brown wrote:
But how do you rationalise your perspective above that alternate views should be respected, at the same time that both you and Olaf are dismissing the view that change is not a bad thing?
Change - as an abstract term - is not good or bad per se. Each change brings some benefit (or at least it should, to be seriously considered) and usually also has some negative side effects. Whether you say "Each change is good because change is progress, progress is good, mkay..." or "Each change is bad, I want everything to stay as it was.", it's equally wrong. Instead, each change should be considered for its positive and negative effects and weighted carefully if the benefits are worth the trouble (or harm).
I agree....
In this particular case, the benefit is making the file names more formally corect and the cost is actual harm for real people and their systems. Of course, you are well known for your disregard of people using packages or repositories not belonging to the distribution and for discouraging such practice. But your view is far from universal and breaking such systems is a problem which outweights the benefit of formal file name corectness by far.
....and then you go and discredit yourself with ad hominems..
If you look at this thread with a little less emotion and a lot more professionalism I expect you will see that Daniel is not driving this forward without sincerely trying to find ways of mitigating impacts to peoples systems, and my contribution to the discussion was to try and remind everyone that just because a solution works fine for the specific dataset that is [SUSE], the superset that is [SUSE + openSUSE] can have differing requirements and they should be considered rather than dismissed out of hand for the sake of things that are relevant only to [SUSE] (eg. SLE 10 compatability)
Now with those personal attacks out of the way, is anyone in this thread willing to actually do something to help Daniel achieve his goal of shaving the yak, or would you prefer to continue throwing mud?
...and yet it's you who feels offended by a "personal attack". Unfortunately I can't say I'm really surprised. For the record, this "personal attack" was a simple observation of views you yourself presented in completely unambiguous way many times before and explanation why I understand that you don't consider the fallout as severe as others (like me) do. But if you prefer to feel offended and call this observation "throwing mud", it's your choice. I'm still waiting for an example of a real, palpable benefit of this "shaving the yak", benefit that would at least remotely justify the fallout that was already presented. And that is, from my point of view, the basic problem: my position is that before we start asking how to do it, we should always ask "why" and, consequently, wheter we want to. So far, I can't say I'm convinced. Michal Kubecek -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org