Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Upgrade Question
OpenOffice.org was installed on our system last August in response to a need for software at home for students doing the Applied ICT exam (Edexcel) and for other students doing GCSE who in this very poor sem- / inskilled rural area are only just able to buy a box and not the software (very common). Tesco.net supply the Internet connection We give the students a CD with OOorg on it to install as the download would be impossible for many of them - second-hand machines - 533 processors or less - old modems, etc. So to follow your list below: a) Maidenhill School, Kings Road, Stonehouse, Glos. GL10 2HA b) Difficult to say but at leat 3 staff are trying it and around 40 students are known to have used it this school year. (Based on known installs at home and use at lunchtime or after-school. c) Partial - still use MS Office because most teachers have neither the time or the inclination at present to migrate and all their work sheets are tied into MS Office. d) Yes e) We had difficulty installing OOorg on the network and recieved help from a company in Cambridge. The network is centred on a Unix server which deals with Internet and e- mail and firewalls the system (Apache, Squid, MySQL, PHP, etc.) There are 4 application servers (Win2000) running Citrix XP and a range of Windows software including OOorg, 1 Win2000 fileserver (RAID 5), one Win2000 printserver, one library system server (IIS) running specialist library software which makes the library database accessible over the Intranet as a set of web pages for searching, one Unix backup server, one Unix sound / music / video fileserver / store (Performing Arts school status). The clients: 80 Linux / RISCOS Thin clients running the Citrix ICA Client, 30+ full PCs many with Win XP as the underlying OS to allow local software (dongles, serial ports, Flash, etc.) which have to see drive C: to operate, 5 old PCs running a cut down version of Unix with the ICA client to behave like Thin Clients, 21 staff laptops of varying ages and makes, 3 of which run OOorg as well, 1 E-Mac (MacOSX) used for video- editing but running a very poorly written version of the ICA client to allow the Windows desktop to run (sorry, Apple...nice machine but software...), 1 dual boot windows / SuSE Linux machine for evaluation using OOorg. - prints through the Windows printserver or directly over IP after considerable heartache and time - not yet friendly enough SuSE... The network has a Gigabit backbone and the rest steps down as required - some 10Mb machines still running happily. Some wireless in the difficult areas - staff room and offices, school hall / dining room area - planned extensions. Intranet runs from the Unix server; modified version accessible over the Intranet along with the filing system and the school web-mail. School web site hosted with a local company ik.org for political reasons but with links back to our Unix server. PhpBB Forum just being set up, along with online calendar system. Any further info. e-mail me - no phone calls please. Screenshots, photos available to bona-fide folk. George Harris
Open Office has also been installed on ours Windows network for comparison.
Please let the OpenOffice.org project know of your findings. If anyone is using OpenOffice.org in schools, we want to know
a) The Name of the School b) How many people use OpenOffice.org c) Whether there is partial or complete migration to OpenOffice.org d) If the school is happy to be cited as an example withthe information listed on the web site. e) Any other information you want to suppy with regard to OpenOffice.org in your school environment.
Please E-mail by replying to this or to ianlynch@openoffice.org
Also join the Educ project by subscribing to the OpenOffice.org Educ list. Its low traffic. Send E-mail to educ-subscribe@marketing.openoffice.org
Regards,
-- If this e-mail contains anything that the recipient takes exception to, please contact: The Headteacher, Maidenhill School GL10 2HA UK (+44) (0) 1453 822469
On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 07:01, G.Harris wrote:
OpenOffice.org was installed on our system last August in response to a need for software at home for students doing the Applied ICT exam (Edexcel) and for other students doing GCSE who in this very poor sem- / inskilled rural area are only just able to buy a box and not the software (very common). Tesco.net supply the Internet connection We give the students a CD with OOorg on it to install as the download would be impossible for many of them - second-hand machines - 533 processors or less - old modems, etc.
<SNIP> Thanks to those who have replied to my request for info on OO.o usage.... and keep them coming if there are more, the feedback is really useful and can have an effect on development priorities. Regards, -- ian <ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com>
Thanks for the disk! :-) *We've given copies of the disk to several staff -using 98, XP, and MAC - No feedback at all, but that's teachers for you :-) *We use it a little in the ICT office - depends which Icon we hit, and I use at home as does my 10yr old son and the NME, on our PC's (98 & SuSE both dual booting) *We have a few pupils who have emailed homework in Open Office (OO) format, All of their parents are 'in the industry', So it's been useful to be able to load and convert files. *It's been offered to the pupils but no take-up as yet although we may hand this over to the library to push - their point of view is that they have a WP etc on their laptop/pc that does more than they could possibly get out of it, so why change? *We also install it on new laptops for pupils. When parents ask us to recommend a laptop (which we always wriggle out of!) we suggest that they buy a bare bones machine and offer the installation of a free suite, OO. We've done about four of these so far - again no feedback - So I assume good :-) *We installed Star office about 18months ago across the network but it never ran correctly (probably just needed a little more time and effort on our part!) But when we have a few free hours we intend putting OO on as it does seem a little slicker than SO. *I have to say that I prefer the IDE in word as I do in Firefox over IE. It's somehow more efficient to be in an application than a document, although the SO implementation of a 'desk top' was overkill in the wrong direction. I suppose it's a case of pushing and tipping the balance. The biggest obstacle is bundled software, why change when you already have the same as everyone else? Someone was saying in another thread that MS lower costs allows them be seen to be 'giving' something to schools - Giving for free would probable do them no harm at all, since they need to indoctrinate them young - I'm always amazed at the number of people that purchase the same make and model of car that they took their driving lessons in - maybe it's a mater of confidence? I for one never had much confidence in SO! Not as a stand-alone, but in a world where everyone else was using the 'defacto standard', it just couldn't cope with reading anything but the simplest documents. OO is much better :-) Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: ian <ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com> To: G.Harris <gh@maidenhill.gloucs.sch.uk> Cc: <suse-linux-uk-schools@suse.com> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Upgrade Question
On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 07:01, G.Harris wrote:
OpenOffice.org was installed on our system last August in response to a need for software at home for students doing the Applied ICT exam (Edexcel) and for other students doing GCSE who in this very poor sem- / inskilled rural area are only just able to buy a box and not the software (very common). Tesco.net supply the Internet connection We give the students a CD with OOorg on it to install as the download would be impossible for many of them - second-hand machines - 533 processors or less - old modems, etc.
<SNIP> Thanks to those who have replied to my request for info on OO.o usage.... and keep them coming if there are more, the feedback is really useful and can have an effect on development priorities.
Regards, -- ian <ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com>
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com
On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 10:33, adrian.wells wrote: <SNIP>
*We installed Star office about 18months ago across the network but it never ran correctly (probably just needed a little more time and effort on our part!) But when we have a few free hours we intend putting OO on as it does seem a little slicker than SO.
This is more an issue of versions. eg OO.o 1.1 will be slicker than SO 6.0 because OO.o 1.1 is actually the code base for SO 7.0. By the end of this year we should have OO.o 2.0 which is a radical re-write currently under way. This won't make massive differences to the user interface except in making things easier but the code will be much more efficent. To see what is planned and the underlying philosophy go to. http://tools.openoffice.org/releases/q-concept.html
*I have to say that I prefer the IDE in word as I do in Firefox over IE. It's somehow more efficient to be in an application than a document, although the SO implementation of a 'desk top' was overkill in the wrong direction.
I suppose it's a case of pushing and tipping the balance. The biggest obstacle is bundled software, why change when you already have the same as everyone else?
So we need to be bundling OO.o with more PCs. Its free so its a bit surprising that more OEMs don't just do it. As it improves and gets better known I suspect this option will become irresistible.
Someone was saying in another thread that MS lower costs allows them be seen to be 'giving' something to schools - Giving for free would probable do them no harm at all,
It will when they get the same effect anyway and can rake in the money! This is of course changing and they are being forced to lower prices. In the end they might have to give it away in schools to avoid a complete wipe out. As OO.o and other software improves its going to be pretty difficult to argue to spend money on MS products in the public sector.
since they need to indoctrinate them young - I'm always amazed at the number of people that purchase the same make and model of car that they took their driving lessons in - maybe it's a mater of confidence?
Its the fact that human beings are generally creatures of habit. Most avoid change, but a few actively seek it out. They are usually the ones that to something like invent the wheel or discover relativity and then the rest are dragged along. Its pretty well documented in social-psychology books.
I for one never had much confidence in SO! Not as a stand-alone, but in a world where everyone else was using the 'defacto standard', it just couldn't cope with reading anything but the simplest documents. OO is much better :-)
I think you are comparing SO 5.2 with OO.o 1.1. The important thing to realise is that this software is not static its constantly improving and if you like 1.1 just wait until 2.0 hits the net and then 3.0 then 4.0. How long before its so good there is no real argument in its use? SO is really for those that want a security blanket of having a big company to look after them. That therefore means that the OO.o code base can be adopted by the widest possible user base.
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- From: ian <ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com> To: G.Harris <gh@maidenhill.gloucs.sch.uk> Cc: <suse-linux-uk-schools@suse.com> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Upgrade Question
On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 07:01, G.Harris wrote:
OpenOffice.org was installed on our system last August in response to a need for software at home for students doing the Applied ICT exam (Edexcel) and for other students doing GCSE who in this very poor sem- / inskilled rural area are only just able to buy a box and not the software (very common). Tesco.net supply the Internet connection We give the students a CD with OOorg on it to install as the download would be impossible for many of them - second-hand machines - 533 processors or less - old modems, etc.
<SNIP> Thanks to those who have replied to my request for info on OO.o usage.... and keep them coming if there are more, the feedback is really useful and can have an effect on development priorities.
Regards, -- ian <ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com>
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com
-- ian <ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com>
I think you are comparing SO 5.2 with OO.o 1.1. The important thing to realise is that this software is not static its constantly improving and if you like 1.1 just wait until 2.0 hits the net and then 3.0 then 4.0.
Your quite right :-) Although I did understand that the core code was similar. However a WP, is a WP is a WP, there are only so many things that you want it to do (unless you want to integrate other functions, e.g proper DTP etc.) So what do you change? Tighter/faster code, fiddle with the interface (lots of scope for likes/dislikes here) or add yet another wizard :-) The killer, that will ensure the success of OO.o is it's ability to SEAMLESSLY import and export documents from and to other apps. One of my clients, a company of patent attorneys, will not use OO.o because they are worried about compatibility when exchanging documents with clients, and yet they use different versions of office & works with which they struggle to exchange files within the office! :-) Doh! The irony is that most of their WP could be handled by the simplest of WPs and translation wouldn't be a problem for OO.o! Yes, pressing companies to bundle OO.o would be a great leap forward, unfortunately the big 'uns are tied in with MS, Dell et al. I'm going to have a word (no pun intended) with my local supplier and offer him a copy. Kind regards Adrian
On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 12:10, adrian.wells wrote:
I think you are comparing SO 5.2 with OO.o 1.1. The important thing to realise is that this software is not static its constantly improving and if you like 1.1 just wait until 2.0 hits the net and then 3.0 then 4.0.
Your quite right :-) Although I did understand that the core code was similar.
However a WP, is a WP is a WP, there are only so many things that you want it to do (unless you want to integrate other functions, e.g proper DTP etc.) So what do you change? Tighter/faster code, fiddle with the interface (lots of scope for likes/dislikes here) or add yet another wizard :-)
I think that is an interesting point. In a scenario such as MS Office, its in the vendor's interest for the code to get larger because then it forces users to buy a new machine with a new OS. In the case of an OS project hackers pride in doing it right and making it efficient is at least part of the equation. So as applications reach maturity and there is not much left to improve, you can add a load of worthless gimmicks that bloat the code or you can make the code more efficient. I think the latter is more likely to be the cae with OO.o development.
The killer, that will ensure the success of OO.o is it's ability to SEAMLESSLY import and export documents from and to other apps. One of my clients, a company of patent attorneys, will not use OO.o because they are worried about compatibility when exchanging documents with clients, and yet they use different versions of office & works with which they struggle to exchange files within the office! :-) Doh! The irony is that most of their WP could be handled by the simplest of WPs and translation wouldn't be a problem for OO.o!
Well ignorance is probably the toughest obstacle to tackle. But on the + side kids are learning more IT at school and the youngsters tend to be more open to FLOSS.
Yes, pressing companies to bundle OO.o would be a great leap forward, unfortunately the big 'uns are tied in with MS, Dell et al. I'm going to have a word (no pun intended) with my local supplier and offer him a copy.
I have seen PCs in Tescos with StarOffice pre-loaded. We tend to put OpenOffice.org on the ones we build if the customer doesn't specify something. I can't really see why DELL should worry too much about upsetting MS. If MS actually tried to put pressure on them it would be illegal and they just need to squeal to the OFT. I think its more likely just a mindset. If we keep tapping away it will eventually shatter. -- ian <ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com>
I hope G Harris and anyone else who is trying to provide computers for students at home is aware of the fact that Free Computers for Education, Registered Charity No. 1059116, is able to provide professionally refurbished and Internet-ready computers for this purpose from £50. Further information is available on our website at: http://www.free-computers.org or by telephoning me on 01932-874303. Regards, Grahame Leon-Smith ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ REFURBISH AND REUSE IS BETTER THAN RECYCLE Grahame Leon-Smith, Chairman of Trustees Tel +44-1932-874303 Fax +44-1932-874068 FREE COMPUTERS FOR EDUCATION Registered Charity No. 1059116 PLEASE VISIT OUR WEB SITE AT < http://www.free-computers.org> and for further information just send a blank email to: < mailto:free-computers-news-subscribe@yahoogroups.com> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: ian [mailto:ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com] Sent: 11 March 2004 09:11 To: G.Harris Cc: suse-linux-uk-schools@suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Upgrade Question On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 07:01, G.Harris wrote:
OpenOffice.org was installed on our system last August in response to a need for software at home for students doing the Applied ICT exam (Edexcel) and for other students doing GCSE who in this very poor sem- / inskilled rural area are only just able to buy a box and not the software (very common). Tesco.net supply the Internet connection We give the students a CD with OOorg on it to install as the download would be impossible for many of them - second-hand machines - 533 processors or less - old modems, etc.
<SNIP> Thanks to those who have replied to my request for info on OO.o usage.... and keep them coming if there are more, the feedback is really useful and can have an effect on development priorities. Regards, -- ian <ian.lynch2@ntlworld.com> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.613 / Virus Database: 392 - Release Date: 04/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.613 / Virus Database: 392 - Release Date: 04/03/2004
participants (4)
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adrian.wells -
G.Harris -
Grahame Leon-Smith＠FreeComputers -
ian