For people who don't read Slashdot: take a look at the following letter from Dr. Edgar David Villanueva Nuñez (Congressman of the Republica of Perú) to the General Manager of Microsoft, Perú. http://www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html or, if unavailable, try http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:TvfSi6UFJpQC:www.gnu.org.pe/resmseng.html+&hl=en If only we had MPs like this... Michael
Michael! Michael Brown wrote:
For people who don't read Slashdot: take a look at the following letter from Dr. Edgar David Villanueva Nuñez (Congressman of the Republica of Perú) to the General Manager of Microsoft, Perú.
Thank you for this. I do read Slashdot, but hadn't visited for a while. Everyone else who hasn't seen this yet, don't be put off by the length and density of the letter, it's outstanding: cool, clear and utterly devastating in destroying Microsoft's favourite myths about open source software. It also has also a certain dry wit. (This document also gives lie to the lazy belief that all politicians are stupid, selfish and corrupt. Many people in government around the World are talented and dedicated to public service, and I'd say these attributes were more common in UK politicians than in most of the people who criticize them and yet can't be bothered to vote---65% of the British population at the last count.) What particularly tickled me was that this South American politician's letter addressed arguments against specifying open requirements in computer contracts that I have also heard from British civil servants, but please don't think I'm suggesting that public officials could have been brainwashed by a multinational corporation with an enormous marketing budget---and cute icons. all the best Damian -- Damian COUNSELL http://www.counsell.com/
On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 09:34:15AM +0100, Damian wrote:
Michael!
Michael Brown wrote:
For people who don't read Slashdot: take a look at the following letter from Dr. Edgar David Villanueva Nuñez (Congressman of the Republica of Perú) to the General Manager of Microsoft, Perú.
Thank you for this. I do read Slashdot, but hadn't visited for a while.
Everyone else who hasn't seen this yet, don't be put off by the length and density of the letter, it's outstanding: cool, clear and utterly devastating in destroying Microsoft's favourite myths about open source software. It also has also a certain dry wit.
(This document also gives lie to the lazy belief that all politicians are stupid, selfish and corrupt. Many people in government around the World are talented and dedicated to public service, and I'd say these attributes were more common in UK politicians than in most of the people who criticize them and yet can't be bothered to vote---65% of the British population at the last count.)
If our politicians are more `talented & dedicated' than most people, why does it take a Peruvian politician to understand open source software, nail the MS FUD & save his taxpayer's money & confidentiality? I'm not aware of anybody in our parliament who has the remotest concept of any of the issues involved and could address the issues with the ability the Peruvian congressman has. Probably because 90% of our politicians are stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt.
What particularly tickled me was that this South American politician's letter addressed arguments against specifying open requirements in computer contracts that I have also heard from British civil servants, but please don't think I'm suggesting that public officials could have been brainwashed by a multinational corporation with an enormous marketing budget---and cute icons.
What, our civil servants have been `brainwashed' but our politicians who in their wisdom employ them and are fond of being as hospitable as possible to Mr Gates are `talented & dedicated? If you're not saying that, what exactly are you saying? BTW, the letter is also at: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25157.html -- Frank *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Boroughbridge. Tel: 01423 323019 --------- PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/ Marriage always demands the greatest understanding of the art of insincerity possible between two human beings. -- Vicki Baum
Frank Shute wrote:
On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 09:34:15AM +0100, Damian wrote:
(This document also gives lie to the lazy belief that all politicians are stupid, selfish and corrupt. Many people in government around the World are talented and dedicated to public service, and I'd say these attributes were more common in UK politicians than in most of the people who criticize them and yet can't be bothered to vote---65% of the British population at the last count.)
If our politicians are more `talented & dedicated' than most people, why does it take a Peruvian politician to understand open source software, nail the MS FUD & save his taxpayer's money & confidentiality?
I have dealt with at least two UK politicians who have given an intelligent, fair and sympathetic hearing to my open source advocacy and many civil servants who haven't. In fact, of two civil servants I met who *were* sympathetic, one is in the process of retiring and one has gone to work for an open source company.
I'm not aware of anybody in our parliament who has the remotest concept of any of the issues involved and could address the issues with the ability the Peruvian congressman has.
*I* am aware of people in our parliament have the remotest concept of these issues. This is because I have exercised my democratic right and written to them directly.
Probably because 90% of our politicians are stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt.
There *are* stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt politicians in Britain. They are a minority and it's our job to vote them out. If we don't take our chances to do so then we deserve everything we get.
What particularly tickled me was that this South American politician's letter addressed arguments against specifying open requirements in computer contracts that I have also heard from British civil servants, but please don't think I'm suggesting that public officials could have been brainwashed by a multinational corporation with an enormous marketing budget---and cute icons.
What, our civil servants have been `brainwashed' but our politicians who in their wisdom employ them and are fond of being as hospitable as possible to Mr Gates are `talented & dedicated? If you're not saying that, what exactly are you saying?
I'm saying that our politicians, who are elected for their *partiality*, have, in my direct and documented experience, been more impartial over the issues referred to in this letter than our civil servants who have been employed for their *IMpartiality*. I am also saying that there are A) a lot of British MPs who work hard and are good at their jobs and that B) there are millions of Britons who can't be bothered to put an 'X' on a piece of paper. That there are MPs who don't work hard and aren't good at their jobs might have something to do with the millions of people who don't care enough to do something about it. -- Damian COUNSELL http://www.counsell.com/
On Tuesday 07 May 2002 8:09 am, Damian Counsell wrote:
Frank Shute wrote:
On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 09:34:15AM +0100, Damian wrote:
(This document also gives lie to the lazy belief that all politicians are stupid, selfish and corrupt. Many people in government around the World are talented and dedicated to public service, and I'd say these attributes were more common in UK politicians than in most of the people who criticize them and yet can't be bothered to vote---65% of the British population at the last count.)
If our politicians are more `talented & dedicated' than most people, why does it take a Peruvian politician to understand open source software, nail the MS FUD & save his taxpayer's money & confidentiality?
I have dealt with at least two UK politicians who have given an intelligent, fair and sympathetic hearing to my open source advocacy and many civil servants who haven't. In fact, of two civil servants I met who *were* sympathetic, one is in the process of retiring and one has gone to work for an open source company.
I have dealt with my local MP, Yvette Cooper, who is supposed to be both intelligent and open-minded, on two seperate occasions. Firstly on the RIP bill, and secondly on the NHS handing over £70M and total control of the IT infrastructure to burgler Bill. On both occasions she simply forwarded my letter to the appropriate person - probably without even slightly digesting the contents - and then forwarding the reply back to me. In the case of the latter one, the reply was actually worded to Yvette and not me. The very first paragraph started by *branding* me stating that I am 'obviously an Open Source Advocate', and then proceeded throughout the remainder of the letter stating that because of this, my opinions arn't worth the paper they're written on; while totally failing to answer any of the points I made out. His crowning glory was towards the end where he stated that 'anyway, the contract is only for three years', which to me does not sound like a good justification for the contract, when, at the end of the contract we will either have to WIPE all MS software from all PC's or pay MS again. One thing's for sure, we won't get the same (supposed) discount that we got this time. He couldn't even prove that the figures quoted in the press release were correct, or even state where they came from!
I'm not aware of anybody in our parliament who has the remotest concept of any of the issues involved and could address the issues with the ability the Peruvian congressman has.
*I* am aware of people in our parliament have the remotest concept of these issues. This is because I have exercised my democratic right and written to them directly.
Probably because 90% of our politicians are stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt.
There *are* stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt politicians in Britain. They are a minority and it's our job to vote them out. If we don't take our chances to do so then we deserve everything we get.
While I never tar everyone with the same brush, you only have to look at the state of the country to see that something drastic has to be done. As far as MS are concerned, they're on an up escalator with this country. Every new contract published is bigger than the last. And with Tony 'pull-my-string' Blair stating that all departments HAVE to be on the Government Gateway by 2005, he's practically eliminated *any* chance of a proper evaluation of alternatives to the MS/DELL DIS box. Surely that's agains the law?
What particularly tickled me was that this South American politician's letter addressed arguments against specifying open requirements in computer contracts that I have also heard from British civil servants, but please don't think I'm suggesting that public officials could have been brainwashed by a multinational corporation with an enormous marketing budget---and cute icons.
What, our civil servants have been `brainwashed' but our politicians who in their wisdom employ them and are fond of being as hospitable as possible to Mr Gates are `talented & dedicated? If you're not saying that, what exactly are you saying?
I'm saying that our politicians, who are elected for their *partiality*, have, in my direct and documented experience, been more impartial over the issues referred to in this letter than our civil servants who have been employed for their *IMpartiality*.
I do agree totally with this paragraph
I am also saying that there are A) a lot of British MPs who work hard and are good at their jobs and that B) there are millions of Britons who can't be bothered to put an 'X' on a piece of paper. That there are MPs who don't work hard and aren't good at their jobs might have something to do with the millions of people who don't care enough to do something about it.
As one of the millions of Brittons who don't vote as a rule, I will state my reasons here. 1) there is no significant difference between any of the mainstream parties 2) labour is now more conservative than conservative ever was 3) there is not one party that I have any faith, or belief in. While I know that my apathy will not improve but only increase the problem, I will in principle not vote for someone I have no faith in. -- Gary Stainburn This email does not contain private or confidential material as it may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown and undisclosed purposes - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000
[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
On Tuesday 07 May 2002 8:09 am, Damian Counsell wrote:
Frank Shute wrote:
On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 09:34:15AM +0100, Damian wrote:
(This document also gives lie to the lazy belief that all politicians are stupid, selfish and corrupt. Many people in government around the World are talented and dedicated to public service, and I'd say these attributes were more common in UK politicians than in most of the people who criticize them and yet can't be bothered to vote---65% of the British population at the last count.)
If our politicians are more `talented & dedicated' than most people, why does it take a Peruvian politician to understand open source software, nail the MS FUD & save his taxpayer's money & confidentiality?
I have dealt with at least two UK politicians who have given an intelligent, fair and sympathetic hearing to my open source advocacy and many civil servants who haven't. In fact, of two civil servants I met who *were* sympathetic, one is in the process of retiring and one has gone to work for an open source company.
I have dealt with my local MP, Yvette Cooper, who is supposed to be both intelligent and open-minded, on two seperate occasions. Firstly on the RIP bill, and secondly on the NHS handing over _70M and total control of the IT infrastructure to burgler Bill.
You really shouldn't be calling him a "burglet", he's far more of a "racketeer"...
On both occasions she simply forwarded my letter to the appropriate person - probably without even slightly digesting the contents - and then forwarding the reply back to me.
In the case of the latter one, the reply was actually worded to Yvette and not me. The very first paragraph started by *branding* me stating that I am 'obviously an Open Source Advocate', and then proceeded throughout the
No doubt the same person would ask why such a large proportion of the population appear to feel disenfrancised...
remainder of the letter stating that because of this, my opinions arn't worth the paper they're written on; while totally failing to answer any of the points I made out.
His crowning glory was towards the end where he stated that 'anyway, the contract is only for three years', which to me does not sound like a good justification for the contract, when, at the end of the contract we will either have to WIPE all MS software from all PC's or pay MS again. One thing's for sure, we won't get the same (supposed) discount that we got this time.
If the contract has any value to the health service in the first place is questionable. Let alone having a contract for "only 3 years" which covers data which needs to be kept for something like 150 years. This is where, IMHO, proprietary software just does not cut it. Governments need to hold on to data for a long time...
He couldn't even prove that the figures quoted in the press release were correct, or even state where they came from!
At a guess an episode of "Yes Minister" seen on UK Gold :)
I'm not aware of anybody in our parliament who has the remotest concept of any of the issues involved and could address the issues with the ability the Peruvian congressman has.
*I* am aware of people in our parliament have the remotest concept of these issues. This is because I have exercised my democratic right and written to them directly.
Probably because 90% of our politicians are stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt.
There *are* stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt politicians in Britain. They are a minority and it's our job to vote them out. If we don't take our chances to do so then we deserve everything we get.
While I never tar everyone with the same brush, you only have to look at the state of the country to see that something drastic has to be done.
As far as MS are concerned, they're on an up escalator with this country. Every new contract published is bigger than the last.
And with Tony 'pull-my-string' Blair stating that all departments HAVE to be
Does the man have any credibility left? Even members of his own party noticed the latest "string pulling" going on.
on the Government Gateway by 2005, he's practically eliminated *any* chance of a proper evaluation of alternatives to the MS/DELL DIS box. Surely that's agains the law?
I am also saying that there are A) a lot of British MPs who work hard and are good at their jobs and that B) there are millions of Britons who can't be bothered to put an 'X' on a piece of paper. That there are MPs who don't work hard and aren't good at their jobs might have something to do with the millions of people who don't care enough to do something about it.
As one of the millions of Brittons who don't vote as a rule, I will state my reasons here.
1) there is no significant difference between any of the mainstream parties
At least this isn't quite as bad as in the US, where they have the utter minimum of "mainstream parties"
2) labour is now more conservative than conservative ever was 3) there is not one party that I have any faith, or belief in.
While I know that my apathy will not improve but only increase the problem, I will in principle not vote for someone I have no faith in.
Maybe all ballot papers should include a "none of these"/ "hold a new election with different candidates" type box. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763
On the subject on informed legislators I thought you may all want to read the full English text of a reply by a Peruvian Congressman David Villanueva Nuñez to Microsoft Peru and its attempts to scare all and sundry. This is on The Register at;- http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25157.html Read it all the way through as it is by far and away one of the clearest and most cogently argued rebuttals of MS FUD. As well it presents a powerful case for Free Software (free to use, study modify & redistribute) in Public Administration. So powerful in fact we should be using the Puruvian example to draft our own such laws for schools, hospitals, police, local authorities, etc. wherever the Public Interest must be protected and best served now and for the future. Comments welcome, but first read the the Nuñez's text Regards Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com
On Tue, 7 May 2002, Steve Kehoe wrote:
On the subject on informed legislators I thought you may all want to read the full English text of a reply by a Peruvian Congressman David Villanueva Nuñez to Microsoft Peru and its attempts to scare all and sundry. This is on The Register at;- http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25157.html Read it all the way through as it is by far and away one of the clearest and most cogently argued rebuttals of MS FUD.
Ummmm, isn't that the *exact* same text that I posted a link to when I started this thread? :-) Michael
On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 08:09:24AM +0100, Damian wrote:
Frank Shute wrote:
On Sun, May 05, 2002 at 09:34:15AM +0100, Damian wrote:
(This document also gives lie to the lazy belief that all politicians are stupid, selfish and corrupt. Many people in government around the World are talented and dedicated to public service, and I'd say these attributes were more common in UK politicians than in most of the people who criticize them and yet can't be bothered to vote---65% of the British population at the last count.)
If our politicians are more `talented & dedicated' than most people, why does it take a Peruvian politician to understand open source software, nail the MS FUD & save his taxpayer's money & confidentiality?
I have dealt with at least two UK politicians who have given an intelligent, fair and sympathetic hearing to my open source advocacy and many civil servants who haven't. In fact, of two civil servants I met who *were* sympathetic, one is in the process of retiring and one has gone to work for an open source company.
Well that's encouraging but there seems to be no general, wider debate about the issues involved in what IMO is a fairly crucial area for the development of the country at large. Is there a parliamentary committee looking at the use of software in the public sector? I don't think so and if so how many MPs are there in parliament with a BSc CompSci who can make sense of the evidence presented? At a guess not many if any at all, most of them are career politicians without any useful knowledge at all. Say what you like about the lords but at least they had/have members who have some expertise outside of politics. How are the mainstream press debating this issue? They're not. They're happy filling their papers with opinion pieces telling us what a fascist Le Pen is....well I don't care what they think, I want some facts to make up my own mind and I'd much rather they discussed something that really matters then some old Frog who hasn't got a hope of hell of getting into power. BTW, why is Le Pen a fascist for wanting to stop immigration yet our own government isn't for incarcerating asylum seekers and the American's aren't despite imprisoning 100s of people without trial? Answers on a postcard please.
I'm not aware of anybody in our parliament who has the remotest concept of any of the issues involved and could address the issues with the ability the Peruvian congressman has.
*I* am aware of people in our parliament have the remotest concept of these issues. This is because I have exercised my democratic right and written to them directly.
Who are these people and why are they so seemingly reluctant to stick their heads above the parapet and make a song and dance about it?
Probably because 90% of our politicians are stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt.
There *are* stupid, selfish, lazy and/or corrupt politicians in Britain. They are a minority and it's our job to vote them out. If we don't take our chances to do so then we deserve everything we get.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you and say that IMO unfortunately they are a majority. I agree with your comments about us getting what we deserve but political debate has been demeaned by the current lot and nobody with any real talent wants to go into politics. And even if you have talent and are prepared to listen to both sides of an argument without towing a party line, then your impartiality effectively disqualifies you from entering politics.
What particularly tickled me was that this South American politician's letter addressed arguments against specifying open requirements in computer contracts that I have also heard from British civil servants, but please don't think I'm suggesting that public officials could have been brainwashed by a multinational corporation with an enormous marketing budget---and cute icons.
What, our civil servants have been `brainwashed' but our politicians who in their wisdom employ them and are fond of being as hospitable as possible to Mr Gates are `talented & dedicated? If you're not saying that, what exactly are you saying?
I'm saying that our politicians, who are elected for their *partiality*, have, in my direct and documented experience, been more impartial over the issues referred to in this letter than our civil servants who have been employed for their *IMpartiality*.
But politicians shouldn't be elected for their partiality, they should be elected on merit, yet it doesn't happen because of the currently flawed political process. The impartial civil servants are told how to go about being impartial by their partial masters & end up being anything but impartial.
I am also saying that there are A) a lot of British MPs who work hard and are good at their jobs and that B) there are millions of Britons who can't be bothered to put an 'X' on a piece of paper. That there are MPs who don't work hard and aren't good at their jobs might have something to do with the millions of people who don't care enough to do something about it.
Most people feel totally disenfranchised just like Gary and I do. We need a violent revolution; the politicians are too comfortable, complacent and happy with the currently dismal status quo. You saying that by using our `democratic right' by voting for some other bunch of sleazeballs is going to make any difference is just not the case IMO and hasn't been for the past 50 yrs. Sorry for going OT but IMO the political landscape has to change before free software is taken up to any significant degree. -- Frank *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Boroughbridge. Tel: 01423 323019 --------- PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/ BAD CRAZINESS, MAN!!!
I'm finally getting to grips with Linux (SuSe 7.2). However this doesn't appear to have Firewire support built in - I'm trying to install an Evergreen combined USB (1.1) and FireWire card. Question 1: The USB part works fine but the Firewire part isn't recognised by YAST2, but if I upgrade to SuSe 8.0 will this support FireWire - including this card? Also, if it does can I also configure the firewire card as a network adapter - to network to my Sony (Windows) laptop which has an iLink adapter built in? Second question: Which WiFi cards are supported by SuSE Linux? I'm thinking of buying one of the cheap USB WiFi NIC adapters sold by Dabs and want to know if these will work with Linux. David Bowles Education Support PS: Apologies in advance if the root answer to my queries is RTFM!
Second question: Which WiFi cards are supported by SuSE Linux? I'm thinking of buying one of the cheap USB WiFi NIC adapters sold by Dabs and want to know if these will work with Linux.
Any card based on the Prism2 USB chipset should be supported by Linux. Don't know whether it's included in SuSE's kernel or not - try running "modprobe prism2_usb" and see if the module exists or not. If not, you can easily download and build it. If it's a desktop machine, I would recommend the ActionTec HWP1170 - a Prism2.5 PCI device, sold by Dabs under the Dabs Value brand at (IIRC) just over 50 quid. Michael
participants (7)
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Damian Counsell -
David Bowles -
Frank Shute -
Gary Stainburn -
Mark Evans -
Michael Brown -
Steve Kehoe