Sorry, we MUST buy Microsoft.
OK I heared the arguments... I largely agree with the arguments... But I think the arguments are not about the issues which others....and yes, myself too...feel are the necessary ones to consider. I have no problem with Star Office....neither would others. I have no problem wih K desktop.... I agree - we are 'Educating' not training.... BUT Pupils need to use current MS tools NOW - not just when they leave school...in many other subject areas than IT. You only need to take one look at programs like 'crocodile physics, technology, chemistry' to be converted. They are simply fantastic compared to anything (are there isn't much) to satisfy CAL. The 'control' programs for Data logging....all require MS OS. Publisher (....and I hate it....much prefer my Acorn copy of !Style) is everywhere...integrates very nicely with other MS packages (just as well because it doesn't have much else going for it) but it simply doesn't have a convenient way of transfering material to LINUX platform. I might well migrate by NT servers to LINUX... I might well change my Netscape proxy server to LINUX (although I've never managed to get the MS proxy client software (winsock proxy) to work with anything but MS server). I might change my Email server to LINUX...especially as its the same box as my proxy. I certainly run Xserver clients on my PCs to give access to a differen't OS....a multiuser OS.... I use telnet and introduce some C programming as a change to Visual Basic (again....nothing anywhere near as good for LINUX.. and yes, I'd be first to agree that VB has its problems) You could use CITRIX to deliver MS interface to LINUX clients...but I'd say that was only to be resorted too when really necessary. Sound and moving graphics are pretty slow, and CITRIX is expensive. A Terminal Server Client for LINUX would be attractive but I can't see MS doing/Allowing that. Add to that the dearth of 'cheap' (sorry) LINUX capable technicians, the dearth of teaching staff that have any familiarity with LINUX (in fact there is dearth of IT capable staff) and the desktop battle is lost - except for niche schools and or workstations within a school. -- Alan Davies Head of Computing Birkenhead School
Ok guys all points noted and understood. I agree whole heartedly with what you all say and would love to change to Linux. You don't have to try and convince me its my staff and parents and govenors that need to be convinced. (a much harder job I'm afraid). As I said I'm new to Linux (only two weeks since using it myself) and OK I've picked it up quite quick but I don't think it would be that easy for all those concerned.
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, Steve Parkes wrote:
Ok guys all points noted and understood. I agree whole heartedly with what you all say and would love to change to Linux. You don't have to try and convince me its my staff and parents and govenors that need to be convinced. (a much harder job I'm afraid). As I said I'm new to Linux (only two weeks since using it myself) and OK I've picked it up quite quick but I don't think it would be that easy for all those concerned.
What do you think would cause problems? I'm not particularly interested in the technical, configuration-related problems that new users might encounter (since my company provides a service that means new users don't need to get involved at the detailed, technical level), but I would like to hear about problems you think new users might have with the user interface, applications, etc. Thanks, Michael Brown Fen Systems Ltd.
Ok guys all points noted and understood. I agree whole heartedly with what you all say and would love to change to Linux. You don't have to try and convince me its my staff and parents and govenors that need to be convinced. (a much harder job I'm afraid).
How easy do you think your job is going to be when Microsoft continues on with their current plans to tie software tightly to each piece of hardware. We already have the situation of Windows licence certificates being a sticker on machines, if you buy from large suppliers. Little could be more daft in a school. The plan for office is to have individual unlock codes for each machine. i.e. more admin work for no benefit. For a school per machine licences are expensive, per machine licences which are tied to specific hardware are even more expensive, if you then have to spend time calling 0870 numbers then that's even more expense. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, Alan Davies wrote:
You only need to take one look at programs like 'crocodile physics, technology, chemistry' to be converted. They are simply fantastic compared to anything (are there isn't much) to satisfy CAL.
This is one motivation for the existence of OSIE - to research and publicise the existence of Linux-based CAL. It does exist - have a quick search on Freshmeat.net for evidence.
The 'control' programs for Data logging....all require MS OS.
http://www.iaeee.tuwien.ac.at/sensor/samplin/ http://www.newplanetsoftware.com/glove/ http://www.ni.com/linux/ (not free) http://llp.fu-berlin.de/ http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=lego ...and others (I got tired of searching at this point)
Publisher (....and I hate it....much prefer my Acorn copy of !Style) is everywhere...integrates very nicely with other MS packages (just as well because it doesn't have much else going for it) but it simply doesn't have a convenient way of transfering material to LINUX platform.
Is this a major problem, since Publisher is not (unless the 4 years-old known bug has been fixed) compatible with a multi-user NT system anyway? ;-)
I might well migrate by NT servers to LINUX... I might well change my Netscape proxy server to LINUX (although I've never managed to get the MS proxy client software (winsock proxy) to work with anything but MS server).
What are you attempting to proxy? If it's just web access, then you don't need any "MS proxy client software" - the web browsers contain their own support for proxying. If you're trying to proxy everything (web, ftp, telnet, ssh, irc, etc.) then you can use IP Masquerading, which still doesn't require any "MS proxy client software". I've never actually found a use for the MS "proxy client software"... E-mail me if you want some help setting up the proxy / masquerading.
I use telnet and introduce some C programming as a change to Visual Basic (again....nothing anywhere near as good for LINUX.. and yes, I'd be first to agree that VB has its problems)
Try KDevelop (http://www.kdevelop.org/). It's a GUI C++ IDE for Linux. Programming is one area where Linux really wipes the floor with NT. You have compilers/interpreters for C, C++, Perl, Python, Java and loads of other languages, all available out of the box and for free. You have at least one high-quality visual integrated development environment (KDevelop), and debugging support so good that, according to an NT developer at Microsoft, you can write your first Linux device driver in only two days! Linux also wins here on the (flawed) argument that you should teach pupils the tools they are likely to use in "the real world". C/C++, Perl and, to a lesser extent, Java are all used extensively for "real" software development. Visual Basic is not - it's much more of a "toy" language. What would you rather be equipped with if you were looking for employment: C++ and Perl or VB?
You could use CITRIX to deliver MS interface to LINUX clients...but I'd say that was only to be resorted too when really necessary. Sound and moving graphics are pretty slow, and CITRIX is expensive. A Terminal Server Client for LINUX would be attractive but I can't see MS doing/Allowing that.
Add to that the dearth of 'cheap' (sorry) LINUX capable technicians,
*cough* Managed service! *cough* :-)
the dearth of teaching staff that have any familiarity with LINUX (in fact there is dearth of IT capable staff) and the desktop battle is lost - except for niche schools and or workstations within a school.
Lost?! It's only just starting! :-) Michael Brown Fen Systems Ltd.
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, Alan Davies wrote:
Publisher (....and I hate it....much prefer my Acorn copy of !Style) is everywhere...integrates very nicely with other MS packages (just as well because it doesn't have much else going for it) but it simply doesn't have a convenient way of transfering material to LINUX platform.
Is this a major problem, since Publisher is not (unless the 4 years-old known bug has been fixed) compatible with a multi-user NT system anyway? ;-)
Publisher, for some reason, is well liked by teachers. At least when it dosn't manage to dosn't manage to eat students' work. The issue is one of a) an OS program which will enable similar things to be done. Kword looks quite promising in this respect. b) the ability to import .PUB files. Export is less of an issue because of the huge size these files can reach. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763
participants (4)
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Alan Davies
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Mark Evans
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Michael Brown
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Steve Parkes