Ok have just put mandrake 10.1 on to try this Karoshi but can not get my mouse to work in mandrake it is a standard mouse and worked fine during setup any ideas -----Original Message----- From: linuxgirlie [mailto:linuxgirlie@gmail.com] Sent: 06 January 2005 13:51 To: SuSe Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] BETT linuxschools.com will be there, paul and I haven't got a stand but we will be wandering around on thursday 13th with a laptop in tow, if anyone wants a demo of Karoshi. Can't think at the present time of anyone else who sticks in my mind. Jo -- Spread FireFox: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=32751 Get FireFox: http://www.getfirefox.com OpenOffice: http://www.openoffice.org Mandrake: http://www.mandrakelinux.com Flexihostings: http://www.flexihostings.net/partners/idevaffiliate.php?id=7170 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help@suse.com

Only change the /dev/mouse to mice not the other references to the word mouse!!! Jo

--- linuxgirlie wrote:

yes, you need to change the XF86 - Config file.

/dev/mouse changed to /dev/mice

Can you verify that? "/dev/mice" certainly does not exist for me. Nor is it defined anywhere in /sbin/MAKEDEV (the default policy-file for creating device nodes). Of course, this raises the possibility of it being a symlink: ls -l /dev/mice Would certainly help. I suspect its probably a symlink to "/dev/input/mice"[1]. Traditionally, under all versions of Linux, "/dev/mouse" has always been a symlink to the actual mouse. The other thing therefore to note is whether or not the actual kernel modules are installed, and indeed, loaded. Since the OP hasn't told us what mouse he's using (always useful) -- I'll guess he's meaning a PS/" mouse (no one could be sad enough, bar me, to still be using a serial mouse). In which case, the kernel modules "mousedev" and "psmouse" should be loaded: # modprove mousedev && modprobe psmouse This also assumes therefore that your configured mouse entry in /etc/X11/XF86Config points to the device "/dev/psaux" [1]. If it's a USB mouse -- go talk to hotplug, but the path to the mouse in /etc/X1/XF86Config should be "/dev/input/mice" for your configured mouse. -- Thomas Adam [1] Under 2.4 kernels, /dev/input/mice was only reserved for USB. "/dev/psaux" is used for PS/2. But under 2.6.X kernels, "/dev/input/mice" is now a multiplexer for USB and PS/2, so you can use it for both. But for convenience sake, "/dev/psaux" can always be used as a fallback method for PS/2 mice in 2.6, regardless. Compatability is nice like that. ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

--- linuxgirlie wrote:

I'm talking about Mandrake 10.1 which uses X.org and for some reason in the XF86Config file it puts:

OK, so maybe "/dev/mice" is Xorg specific then. The references to it on google.com/linux about its existence are vague [1]. It's wholly acceptable for "/dev/mouse" to be the default. As I said before, this isn't an actual device. It's a symlink that the admin can setup to point to whichever mouse device is currently active. Hence: rm /dev/mouse || ln -s /dev/mice /dev/mouse Would also work for any config where the "Configured Mouse" in XF86Config (or any other Xorg derivative, for that matter) which expects "/dev/mouse". Editing the file in question to change "/dev/mouse" to "/dev/mice" might well be simpler, yes. :) -- Thomas Adam [1] I don't have the "luxury" of getting to use it. ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

--- Tim Fletcher wrote:

I think you might be looking for /dev/input/mice in kernel 2.6 this is the aggregate mouse device for the input layer that covers at least ps2 and usb

I mentioned this in the footnote of an earlier reply to this thread. -- Thomas Adam ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Thanks, At the present moment Karoshi is just the server setup, but we are working on a linux client (FAT). My ICT-Coodinator is very interested in MySQL query (he feels it can do what he wants, not sure for A/A2 though) and we may be implementing it at dover before we make the major move across to full Linux. 3 years ago I was still in the sixth form doing my ICT AVCE ;) and getting my first taste of Linux (Corel). Fingers crossed we will still be here in 3/4 years time, with a bigger and better project!! Thanks again, Jo On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:45:10 -0000, David Selby wrote:

Karoshi is grate where were you 3 years ago before we went down the Microcost line.

The only thing missing is an Microsoft access clone to do the database section of the AS and A2 courses

You would still need some Linux knowledge to set up a relational database which is simple to use.

I will be upgrading the whole school again in between 3 and 4 years funds depending and will be watching this project with interest

-----Original Message----- From: linuxgirlie [mailto:linuxgirlie@gmail.com] Sent: 06 January 2005 13:51 To: SuSe Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] BETT

linuxschools.com will be there, paul and I haven't got a stand but we will be wandering around on thursday 13th with a laptop in tow, if anyone wants a demo of Karoshi.

Can't think at the present time of anyone else who sticks in my mind.

Jo

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David, I'd suggest that Rekall is actually a better "database" teaching tool than MS Access, and might fit with the requirements of the AS / A2 courses. I've done quite a lot of testing of it with a highly customised linux distro (based loosely on SuSE 9.2) which we're using for some office desktop installations. Alternatively, OpenOffice 1.9x has some interesting ideas at "database" in the latest beta, which show some promise.

From a "commercial" point of view, I'm interested in finding out how many schools are actually currently rolling out Linux onto their desktops.

Thomas Dyer Xdevelopment llp On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, David Selby wrote:

Karoshi is grate where were you 3 years ago before we went down the Microcost line.

The only thing missing is an Microsoft access clone to do the database section of the AS and A2 courses

You would still need some Linux knowledge to set up a relational database which is simple to use.

I will be upgrading the whole school again in between 3 and 4 years funds depending and will be watching this project with interest

-----Original Message----- From: linuxgirlie [mailto:linuxgirlie@gmail.com] Sent: 06 January 2005 13:51 To: SuSe Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] BETT

linuxschools.com will be there, paul and I haven't got a stand but we will be wandering around on thursday 13th with a laptop in tow, if anyone wants a demo of Karoshi.

Can't think at the present time of anyone else who sticks in my mind.

Jo

-- Spread FireFox: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=32751 Get FireFox: http://www.getfirefox.com OpenOffice: http://www.openoffice.org Mandrake: http://www.mandrakelinux.com Flexihostings: http://www.flexihostings.net/partners/idevaffiliate.php?id=7170

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You really wouldn't want to get them using Linux. They might begin thinking about HOW a computer works. No... We cannot have that! The majority of our installations are desktop users in offices. They moan about having to work on Lun-ix because it's diffrn't. I had someone ring me up, very upset just before Christmas, because the computer "just keeps working" and how are they supposed to dodge work if they can't blame it on the computer. I tried (very hard) to keep a serious tone, whilst listening to them explaining to me that their 3 month old new home machine had to be replaced because it's broken... every time they access the internet it pops up little windows and offers them porn, so they went out and bought a brand new windows machine... They were upset because their work machine just works, and so they cannot take a break because it's broken. Thomas Dyer Xdevelopment llp. On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, linuxgirlie wrote:

We will be shortly, by the end of the year. First we are going to do a laptop trial with the staff.

The students are begging for Linux, so we can't put it off for much longer!!

Jo

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Well the database engine that is used I am not to bothered with its get a front end looking and feeling similar to access as this meens the students who have MS at home can still but in to practise what they have been shown in school. Dave Any one else remember the good days when pupils where encouraged to thing outside the box! -----Original Message----- From: Ian Lynch [mailto:ian.lynch@zmsl.com] Sent: 07 January 2005 11:11 To: Thomas Dyer Cc: David Selby; 'SuSe' Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] BETT On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 09:55, Thomas Dyer wrote:

David,

I'd suggest that Rekall is actually a better "database" teaching tool than MS Access, and might fit with the requirements of the AS / A2 courses.

I've done quite a lot of testing of it with a highly customised linux distro (based loosely on SuSE 9.2) which we're using for some office desktop installations.

Alternatively, OpenOffice 1.9x has some interesting ideas at "database" in the latest beta, which show some promise.

HSQLDB (Java based) and SQLite have both been discussed. HSQLDB is the choice of Sun engineers because it requires least work. Some FLOSS purists don't like Java too much. These both have potential as Access replacements but you can still connect to pretty much most Database servers. At OpenOffice.org we like to provide choice and flexinility :-)

...

From a "commercial" point of view, I'm interested in finding out how many schools are actually currently rolling out Linux onto their desktops.

Certainly an increasing number but its difficult to say exactly how many and its often experiments and partial implementation. -- Ian Lynch Education lead OpenOffice.org community

Access is a bad database but it dose have 2 tings going for it 1. easy of use 2. can meet the exam boards requirements for the database aspect Dave Selby (B.Sc. Hons Dunelm) Network manager St Leonards R C Comprehensive School Tel: 0191 3755204 Fax: 0191 3755248 E-mail: IT@st-leonards.durham.sch.uk Web Site: www.st-leonards.durham.sch.uk Any one else remember the good days when pupils where encouraged to thing outside the box! -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Dyer [mailto:dyert@xdevelopment.co.uk] Sent: 07 January 2005 12:26 To: David Selby Cc: ian.lynch@zmsl.com; 'SuSe' Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] BETT Rekall, if I correctly recall, (haha) has both a Linux and Windows version. The substantial problem with MS Access, has to be that it isn't actually very strong when it comes to database theory. Thomas Dyer Xdevelopment llp On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, David Selby wrote:

Well the database engine that is used I am not to bothered with its get a front end looking and feeling similar to access as this meens the

who have MS at home can still but in to practise what they have been shown in school.

Dave

Any one else remember the good days when pupils where encouraged to thing outside the box! -----Original Message----- From: Ian Lynch [mailto:ian.lynch@zmsl.com] Sent: 07 January 2005 11:11 To: Thomas Dyer Cc: David Selby; 'SuSe' Subject: RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] BETT

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 09:55, Thomas Dyer wrote:

...

David,

I'd suggest that Rekall is actually a better "database" teaching tool

students than

...

MS Access, and might fit with the requirements of the AS / A2 courses.

I've done quite a lot of testing of it with a highly customised linux distro (based loosely on SuSE 9.2) which we're using for some office desktop installations.

Alternatively, OpenOffice 1.9x has some interesting ideas at "database" in the latest beta, which show some promise.

HSQLDB (Java based) and SQLite have both been discussed. HSQLDB is the choice of Sun engineers because it requires least work. Some FLOSS purists don't like Java too much. These both have potential as Access replacements but you can still connect to pretty much most Database servers. At OpenOffice.org we like to provide choice and flexinility :-)

...

...

From a "commercial" point of view, I'm interested in finding out how

many

...

schools are actually currently rolling out Linux onto their desktops.

Certainly an increasing number but its difficult to say exactly how many and its often experiments and partial implementation.

-- Ian Lynch Education lead OpenOffice.org community

--- linuxgirlie wrote:

I have strong views on databases in schools and believe they should be taught something they can use out of school and not something useless.

What would you suggest they get taught, then? I only ever had the pleasure of using Access for three reasons: 1. It's the de facto under Windows. 2. It's graphical so that anyone (including the dog and cat) can use it. 3. It's all the teachers are able to "teach" (although, I'll cast aside their grasp on RDMS). Access is dire -- I agree, but it is a trade off between using that in an environment that is already recognised by the students, and plonking them down at a Linux console with nothing but a MySQL prompt. Any serious company would never use Access. If they did, they can fully expect to get what they deserve. Of course, as fortune would have it, the roles that most databases play are "back-end" places -- so the need for use is limited only to scripting via some form (dynamic website?). This usually suggests a "proper" database (not access) is being used. Although, again, if it is "classic ASP", I can still laugh. I really would like to see an alternative to MS-Access being taught in schools. It's a shame (as per the same argument about Linux being used in schools) that MySQl (or postgresql) is not used. But I suppose there are good reasons for that. You'd have to teach the students about SQL as a language (and if it were anything decent, 'normalisation' too). But this is too advanced, I'd have said. So, we fall back upon Access. The "toy" database. My own views are that if Access has to be taught, that it isn't taught at all. You can't learn anything from it, other than you can move a mouse around the screen, and create pretty forms. The _real_ work behind it is done for you -- albeit poorly. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net "<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Thomas, Thats my thoughts about Rekall. Unlike Access, it actually exposes a bit of database theory, especially if you plug it into a proper database at the backend. It's definately NOT the de facto, but it is graphical, and it is pretty, and it does the "forms" thing. Thomas On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Thomas Adam wrote:

--- linuxgirlie wrote:

...

I have strong views on databases in schools and believe they should be taught something they can use out of school and not something useless.

What would you suggest they get taught, then? I only ever had the pleasure of using Access for three reasons:

1. It's the de facto under Windows. 2. It's graphical so that anyone (including the dog and cat) can use it. 3. It's all the teachers are able to "teach" (although, I'll cast aside their grasp on RDMS).

Access is dire -- I agree, but it is a trade off between using that in an environment that is already recognised by the students, and plonking them down at a Linux console with nothing but a MySQL prompt.

Any serious company would never use Access. If they did, they can fully expect to get what they deserve. Of course, as fortune would have it, the roles that most databases play are "back-end" places -- so the need for use is limited only to scripting via some form (dynamic website?). This usually suggests a "proper" database (not access) is being used. Although, again, if it is "classic ASP", I can still laugh.

I really would like to see an alternative to MS-Access being taught in schools. It's a shame (as per the same argument about Linux being used in schools) that MySQl (or postgresql) is not used. But I suppose there are good reasons for that. You'd have to teach the students about SQL as a language (and if it were anything decent, 'normalisation' too). But this is too advanced, I'd have said.

So, we fall back upon Access. The "toy" database. My own views are that if Access has to be taught, that it isn't taught at all. You can't learn anything from it, other than you can move a mouse around the screen, and create pretty forms. The _real_ work behind it is done for you -- albeit poorly.

-- Thomas Adam

===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net

"<shrug> We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)"

-- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor)

___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Ok, it really depends how far you want to go. All 4 of your points are working here at DGSB including the SIMS server, as Karoshi works with SIMS (sims is still on its own windows server, as it wont run on linux and running it wine would mean they will break any support contracts with you!!). But if you want to change the desktops over then I'm not sure how you will do it unless you keep admin staff on windows and students on linux. If you can come and visit your welcome to see the setup we have here. Jo

Not sure about other Counties but Kent/EIS will not allow you to run SIMS on anything but the server it came on, and the clients must not run on anything but Windows, otherwise you don't get support....I've already had a big arguement with them before about it, thats why the SIMS server though authitcating with Karoshi is just sitting there doing its thang. Jo -- Spread FireFox: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=32751 Get FireFox: http://www.getfirefox.com OpenOffice: http://www.openoffice.org Mandrake: http://www.mandrakelinux.com Flexihostings: http://www.flexihostings.net/partners/idevaffiliate.php?id=7170