On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 08:55:59PM +0100, Adrian Wells wrote:
Its not just the powers that be, its resistance to change at all levels. I know some technicians who are terrified at losing their Windows power base. Personally, I am finding a lot more openness to open source these days so let's eat the elephant a bite at a time and go for the softer bits first.
Absolutly! I was activly kept out of meetings with RM when we were 'thinking' about bying a system from them. The truth was that the disision had already been made to purchase and I was putting flys in the ointment, having already specified linux. Every RM W/S costs about 200 extra in licencing. 1/2 to RM 1/2 to MS - nice work if you can get it.
No company that reports to shareholders should be backed and supported by the government to supply schools - there's too big a conflict of interest.
I don't particularly have a problem with the government doing deals with commercial software manufacturers if it's done openly and transparently and the alternatives and pros and cons are considered and aired publicly. This just isn't happening though.
However...
Let's hope that M$ keep up their parenoia about licensing, it gives the best reason for people to change.
I sell software that I write, and woe betide anyone that breaks my licensing conditions - I get real nasty when people steal from me and my family!
But do you sell software from the position of being a monopoly with arcane and confusing software licences? If you did and you found that schools were using your software in good faith but without a licence would you then pursue them for large fines, even though you're making money hand over fist from your commercial customers? I wouldn't. It's another demonstration of the feet of clay that MS has when it comes to PR and a demonstration of the fact that Bill Gates's `charitable giving' is a lot of worthless and hypocritical fluff.
Gates is in it for the money - what's your problem? - you can't hate the bloke for that. How many of you donate your time to the school that you work for? I thought so, not that many! Most of us need to earn a crust. (I'll grant that some have bigger crusts than others).
A lot of teachers spend their free time doing extra-curriculur activities because they firmly believe in a public service ethos. Because of that they will forego at the minimum a larger salary within industry. To say that `not that many' donate their time is IMO a gross mischaracterisation. Regarding Gates, Gates is in it *solely* for the money by whatever means. IMHO that makes him a contemptible a***hole. Despite your assertion, I can hate him for that and likewise I despise anybody else who is in it just for the money. Where does giving the customer a fair deal come into your scheme of things? Does the fact that you are in it just for the money mean that every bit of crookery is pardonable?
It would seem that most companies across the world are (for the present) quite happy to keep buying from him, you have to ask yourself why. We are talking 1 man bands to multi billion dollar companies. They will be employing the kids at your school who need to use this software. Wake up, we don't teach the kids IT (well not what you think of as IT), we (not I) teach them to use wizards 'cus thats all most of them will ever need.
Most kids when leaving school need little more than the mathematical ability to sum two integers but does this mean we should consign Euclid & Newton to the dustbin? If so, perhaps we could then spend more time at school teaching them how to flip burgers. The fact is that businesses are crying out for employees that can think for themselves and unfortunately all too often schools are producing children who can't except under instruction of a `wizard'. Whether you're on the side of learning for learnings sake or producing cannon fodder for industry, in respect to IT, schools are doing little of either at the moment and I contend that that is directly as a result of the brain-dead software they're forced to use.
Try showing them how to layout a document, apply styles, create tables of contents, indexes, references &etc. and they'll think your nuts. Try asking a kid how to use tabs efficiently (why use one when 10 will do it!). Why learn how to do it properly when a wizard will do it for you? "Learn more than one wizard when I can click and go? Dream on!"
A very good reason for not using software that comes with the damnable paper clip - force the kids to use their brains, they don't grow without exercise.
Maybe we'll go back to teaching I.T. soon, as per the maths & calculator re-revolution.
Not too sure what you mean here.
As for the excuse that LINUX is good because it's different and allows the Kids to delve in and learn how it works, Not on my system mate! let then mess about at home.
Keep them ignorant because it saves you work, is that what you really mean?!
It doesn't really matter too much what OS you use as a server (although I can think of loads of reasons for not using NT, and yes there are others, it's not just an NT/LINUX war) providing it delivers the files and is safe from attack.
The overwhelming case against using NT is vendor lock-in. Businesses can pass the associated costs on to their customers - schools on the other hand will indirectly pass the costs on to all of us as taxpayers. As a taxpayer, I'm not happy with that and I want them to use what's best on both a cost and performance basis.
As to using windows for workstations in a school, what donkey came up with that one? Policies & Profiles? yeah right! But think back to your first PCs, what could you afford? was it something from that nice man Mr Gates? So what did you stay with when you expanded? (Sorry to anyone out there still using BBC Bs and other weird stuff. - Doh! we still use some Beebs!)
Someone in this thread mentioned MS bringing out new versions all the time. So? it's a good way to boost sales, "give'em little and often". A bug fix here (plus some more bugs to fix later) the odd 'improvement' there. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT! Unless you're really fashion conscious :-).
It's not just a case of bug fixes (often & late, if at all) it's all too often changing file formats in order to force users to upgrade if they want to share their data - then it's a case of `you will buy it' or be digitally divided.
But wait, pause a mo. SuSE is now at 7.2 - so that gets improved too! Bet none of you bulk at upgrading that (yeah, I know it's sort of free! but then I know a lot of people that don't pay for any of their software, from the OS up!)
That's a very different case indeed. It's free as you indicate and SuSE don't change file formats solely in order to protect their revenue stream. Why should we baulk [sp] at an upgrade? We're not getting chiselled, we're getting an exceptionally good deal.
There was a point to this, oh yeah - stop moaning and whining about Microsoft, it's so tedious and non productive - WE KNOW THE ARGUMENTS.
Adrian, you've demonstrated that you either don't know a lot of the arguments or you haven't fully understood them. You have to know the nature of the beast in order to suggest a credible alternative - it may sound like whining and moaning but it's an honest attempt to find out why a lot of schools are unhappy with their lot at present & why so much is being spent on IT in schools with so little in the way of return (school leavers' facility with handholding, talking paper-clips excepted). Anyway, didn't you just have a moan about RM & MS after being frozen out of the decision making process yourself?
Write to your MP (http://www.faxyourmp.com/), badger you board of governors, explain to teachers who you've only just manages to understand and to use e-mail, that Bill is not the messiah, and you can use different tools to do the same job - As another exploiter of parents and children would say "Just do it"
You need to have the arguments clarified before you lobby otherwise they wont be interested.
Drive safely home in your ford (whatever the badge on the front), enjoy your McNasty burger and Bud tonight y'all as you watch the latest Hollywood release on DVD ("how many times can you change the country code?!") - Hypocrite? the word never passed my lips! ;-P
I've got the choice of not driving a Dagenham dustbin nor eating the rubbish that passes as food at McNastys. I don't drink beer and I certainly wouldn't drink that Imperialist p*ss if I did and I don't watch the tat that Hollywood pumps out (I don't fall into the 12yr old moron category). But in all cases the big difference is that I've got a choice when it comes to that decision. As you pointed out at the beginning of your post, and as others have pointed out too, you had NO choice when it came to what software you used at school. Hypocrite? I plead `Not guilty', how do you plead? -- Frank *-------*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-------* | Boroughbridge | Tel: 01423 323019 | PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3 | *-------*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-------* http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/