[opensuse-doc] Re: Meeting 1 moving on to 2
Hi Adrien, Thanks for these notes! Responses inline ... On 17/09/2020 17:46, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Heya folks,
was nice discussing face to face! Eager for more though, as I think we have barely scratched the surface of what there is to do :)
About that, I dig Frank's brainstorming idea. Perhaps each of us could write on the wiki page (first meeting, talk section) the main priorities from their opinion? For example, is it refreshing the wiki in particular? Or making key issues from the official doc easier to access and in a form that is more pleasant to newcomers? Or making non-just-textual guides for people interested in openSUSE? Or something else?
Yes, I think we can do this on the wiki. I've just put the minutes up from the meeting, with a link to the discussion page: https://en.opensuse.org/Talk:Documentation:Meetings#Brainstorming
Not I am going to be brutally honest: I know I am much more efficient if meetings try to do one of these things:
1) explaining a technical or complex issue that demands quite a bit of attention to details 2) debating a specific question, i.e. should we do X? 3) planning something, i.e. who's gonna do X and how?
In other words I dig meetings that try to address a specific matter, either by zooming in on it or by breaking it down into several closed questions.
Of course it's just a first meeting, no big deal and no pressure, I think there is a good mindset and I am pretty sure we can make something very good out of it. But it would be delightful if we could try to work stuff a bit ahead of meetings so that we can build on it when we meet :P
Absolutely agree, and it's the reason we need to ensure we let people know that meetings are coming up, and to call for agenda items. Another thing I was thinking was that if we're going to have alternating timezone meetings, we will need to ensure the agenda rolls with the meetings: so it's one agenda across two meetings. This will help prevent us from having people in one tz working on one set of things, and people in the other tz working on something different. I'll sort this out when I arrange the upcoming meetings.
Also I sense there are two perspectives on what we are trying to do: the "insider's" perspective on the doc / wiki / platform ("How to make the best out of the stuff we already have?"). This is a totally valid perspective. You guys have years of experience, while I've been using openSUSE for a couple of months only.
But there is also another perspective, which is more like the one I was feeling from Attila's and Ivo's messages, which is: "Imagine you're about to install an openSUSE distro for the first time in your life. What can the tech and doc guys from the distro make life easy for you?"
There will be some point where the two perspectives will meet, obviously. Still they are different paths, with different questions and tools. I really think we should clarify what path people want to go. Practically this means we can organize ourselves in smaller teams (1 for each path) or all prioritize one path over the other temporarily.
I don't see these two things as being opposed in any way, we really shouldn't have one without the other. After all, it's no good having a great set of beginner resources without having a platform to host them on. I also think that while this needs to be a community effort primarily, it's super important that we have representation within SUSE, too, because we need to be able to interface with their work, processes, and resources.
It's just my 2 cents. I am not trying to frame the whole project within my own subjective perspective, just trying to see how we can sync up on this.
Best and see you soon,
Adrien
PS: Mail owner, can you please let this message through? I had to modify it twice to avoid triggering some unknown rule. If this third attempt fails I will need your assistance...
I got the message directly, and I'm hoping that replying to the list will send it through. I can't see any way of editing permissions in the mailing list, though, so I'm not sure what rules there might be. I'll see if I can email someone and find out how to administer this list better. Lana -- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner@opensuse.org
Hey Lana, thanks for your email,
Answering by topic:
=> Getting ready to discuss things
I've set up a trello board. The point of having a trello (I hope we
don't multiply tools beyond necessity) is to start structuring
priorities and ideas in a more convenient way than the linear way
offered by a wiki page. The second tile of the trello board lists a
couple of questions / topics that I see worth thinking about ahead of
the next meeting. You can find the trello here
https://trello.com/b/AQTktE1n/opensuse-revamped-doc-guides. The invite
link to acquire write rights is
https://trello.com/invite/b/AQTktE1n/189ac651ea18ffc8cf3654f6c01b33d9/opensu....
And of course we can start the discussion right now on our meeting
wiki page.
=> The doc perspective vs. the new user perspective: Opposition?
Of course not, I totally agree with you! I was just saying that there
is a difference between these two questions: How to make the most of
the current doc? and How to make the best learning experience for
future and fresh users? Right now I am mostly interested in the
latter. I think it is the broader question and the easier for the non
tech writers in us to contribute. Because the documentation is great
already, while the learning experience of future and fresh users is
slightly less great. Easier to improve things not great already, and
difficult for a non tech writer like me to make significant
improvements to things that fall under your area of expertise. So how
about having all of us focus on the first question first? Or
alternatively, how about having some of us (the non-veteran-tech
writers) focus on the first question first?
This queston is one among others I've raised on the trello. Up for
discussion on the wiki! The more stuff is discussed on beforehand the
less work to do during meetings :)
Speaking of which: Next week 12:00 UTC, keeping the flame burning?
Cheers,
Adrien
Le ven. 18 sept. 2020 à 08:09, Lana Brindley
Hi Adrien,
Thanks for these notes! Responses inline ...
On 17/09/2020 17:46, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Heya folks,
was nice discussing face to face! Eager for more though, as I think we have barely scratched the surface of what there is to do :)
About that, I dig Frank's brainstorming idea. Perhaps each of us could write on the wiki page (first meeting, talk section) the main priorities from their opinion? For example, is it refreshing the wiki in particular? Or making key issues from the official doc easier to access and in a form that is more pleasant to newcomers? Or making non-just-textual guides for people interested in openSUSE? Or something else?
Yes, I think we can do this on the wiki. I've just put the minutes up from the meeting, with a link to the discussion page: https://en.opensuse.org/Talk:Documentation:Meetings#Brainstorming
Not I am going to be brutally honest: I know I am much more efficient if meetings try to do one of these things:
1) explaining a technical or complex issue that demands quite a bit of attention to details 2) debating a specific question, i.e. should we do X? 3) planning something, i.e. who's gonna do X and how?
In other words I dig meetings that try to address a specific matter, either by zooming in on it or by breaking it down into several closed questions.
Of course it's just a first meeting, no big deal and no pressure, I think there is a good mindset and I am pretty sure we can make something very good out of it. But it would be delightful if we could try to work stuff a bit ahead of meetings so that we can build on it when we meet :P
Absolutely agree, and it's the reason we need to ensure we let people know that meetings are coming up, and to call for agenda items. Another thing I was thinking was that if we're going to have alternating timezone meetings, we will need to ensure the agenda rolls with the meetings: so it's one agenda across two meetings. This will help prevent us from having people in one tz working on one set of things, and people in the other tz working on something different. I'll sort this out when I arrange the upcoming meetings.
Also I sense there are two perspectives on what we are trying to do: the "insider's" perspective on the doc / wiki / platform ("How to make the best out of the stuff we already have?"). This is a totally valid perspective. You guys have years of experience, while I've been using openSUSE for a couple of months only.
But there is also another perspective, which is more like the one I was feeling from Attila's and Ivo's messages, which is: "Imagine you're about to install an openSUSE distro for the first time in your life. What can the tech and doc guys from the distro make life easy for you?"
There will be some point where the two perspectives will meet, obviously. Still they are different paths, with different questions and tools. I really think we should clarify what path people want to go. Practically this means we can organize ourselves in smaller teams (1 for each path) or all prioritize one path over the other temporarily.
I don't see these two things as being opposed in any way, we really shouldn't have one without the other. After all, it's no good having a great set of beginner resources without having a platform to host them on. I also think that while this needs to be a community effort primarily, it's super important that we have representation within SUSE, too, because we need to be able to interface with their work, processes, and resources.
It's just my 2 cents. I am not trying to frame the whole project within my own subjective perspective, just trying to see how we can sync up on this.
Best and see you soon,
Adrien
PS: Mail owner, can you please let this message through? I had to modify it twice to avoid triggering some unknown rule. If this third attempt fails I will need your assistance...
I got the message directly, and I'm hoping that replying to the list will send it through. I can't see any way of editing permissions in the mailing list, though, so I'm not sure what rules there might be. I'll see if I can email someone and find out how to administer this list better.
Lana
-- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 14:13 +0200, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Speaking of which: Next week 12:00 UTC, keeping the flame burning?
If I can, depending on time and day (PST) - I would be interested in joining the the meetings. The notes are great - though reading through them I feel the barrier of entry is growing for any contribution I can imagine. I have have little or no idea about how the doc or web page are cooked up. I probably need little conceptual workflow demo to see anything useful in the github repo. After that I can probably figure out the details. For now I am fine to stay as observer - but: Would it be possible to be little more specific about time and date of the next meeting, so that I could at least consider it? 12:00 UTC is too early for me - so, this maybe moot point - but it would be really helpful to mention date/day. Next week is not very specific. Thanks, Tomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner@opensuse.org
On 23/09/2020 16:23, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 14:13 +0200, Adrien Glauser wrote:
Speaking of which: Next week 12:00 UTC, keeping the flame burning?
If I can, depending on time and day (PST) - I would be interested in joining the the meetings. The notes are great - though reading through them I feel the barrier of entry is growing for any contribution I can imagine.
I have have little or no idea about how the doc or web page are cooked up. I probably need little conceptual workflow demo to see anything useful in the github repo. After that I can probably figure out the details. I understand. I think having a Documentation Contributors' Guide will also be important in the near-ish future, too.
For now I am fine to stay as observer - but: Would it be possible to be little more specific about time and date of the next meeting, so that I could at least consider it?
12:00 UTC is too early for me - so, this maybe moot point - but it would be really helpful to mention date/day. Next week is not very specific.
My apologies, I updated the wiki earlier, but didn't send an email, I'll do that now :) Lana -- Lana Brindley @Loquacities Technical Writer - SUSE Manager "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-doc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-doc+owner@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Adrien Glauser -
Lana Brindley -
tomas.kuchta.lists＠gmail.com