On Friday 13 April 2012, Robert Schweikert wrote:

On 04/13/2012 06:39 AM, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

Hi,

IMO the new search webinterface is quiet useless now.

You have to do too many clicks just to find out which exactly versions of a package are available and what particular project it comes from. In fact it even seems to find much less packages than available on OBS.

It's not clear on first view how to browse directly into the source project page where the search hit belongs too. Also IMO confusiong that project names are shown somehow "human readble" instead of just using the well known (and copy/pasteble) strings like "openSUSE:11.4:Update".

Another thing, why you always hide the "show distribution" menu after submitting the search button? This is very annoying. Moreover I generally hate these kind of java script pages where the page back button never does what you would expect...

Generally +1

However, I have to say that I did not participate in the discussion on the prototype and therefore, somewhat, forfeited my right to complain after the fact.

Thus, rather than complain, I'd like to request that an "Expanded View" button get added to the page. The "Expanded View" would then present the results in a similar way the old search did, with quick and easy access to the OBS project.

Putting myself into the shoes of the "average user" I have to say the new search is better, as it gets to the point quickly:

- Search for a package - Get the results - Install it

Thus, for the "average user" (if such a beast exists) the new search is a great improvement.

Yup, allthough even when thinking like the average user who likes to browse through wizards instead of seeing everthing on one page I would have at least 2 issues: 1. I'm not blind. Why are all these buttons, search bar and fonts that big? After expanding the menus/options I have to resize my browser or scroll around allthough there are only a few informations on page. 2. The fat "Direct Install" button probably does almost never show what I'am looking for. For example searching for "coreutils" recommends me the same version which comes originally with the distro. But I'd say going through the web to search for it instead of just installing it via zypper/yast indicates clearly that I'am looking for something else. Thus it's simply annoying to let me click through all these search hits instead of just showing everything on one page.

For those that want/need more info the details are much harder to come by, unfortunately. Therefore, an "Expanded View" button would be fantastic, and would meet both needs.

Usually I'm using "osc search" anyway but sometimes web search is(was) easier. So would be really nice also to think about those users who never use "1 click install" but just want to find and download a particular rpm as quickly as possible or just want to find and browse an OBS project which contains a particular package-version. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org

On 13.04.2012 14:58, Robert Schweikert wrote:

On 04/13/2012 06:39 AM, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

Hi,

IMO the new search webinterface is quiet useless now.

You have to do too many clicks just to find out which exactly versions of a package are available and what particular project it comes from. In fact it even seems to find much less packages than available on OBS.

It's not clear on first view how to browse directly into the source project page where the search hit belongs too. Also IMO confusiong that project names are shown somehow "human readble" instead of just using the well known (and copy/pasteble) strings like "openSUSE:11.4:Update".

Another thing, why you always hide the "show distribution" menu after submitting the search button? This is very annoying. Moreover I generally hate these kind of java script pages where the page back button never does what you would expect...

Generally +1

However, I have to say that I did not participate in the discussion on the prototype and therefore, somewhat, forfeited my right to complain after the fact.

Thus, rather than complain, I'd like to request that an "Expanded View" button get added to the page. The "Expanded View" would then present the results in a similar way the old search did, with quick and easy access to the OBS project.

Hi Robert, in my opinion a search for obs projects should be done in the obs webui search and not in the enduser software search. What exactly is your usecase? Listing all obs projects that provide a package 'xy'? Greetings

Putting myself into the shoes of the "average user" I have to say the new search is better, as it gets to the point quickly:

- Search for a package - Get the results - Install it

Thus, for the "average user" (if such a beast exists) the new search is a great improvement. For those that want/need more info the details are much harder to come by, unfortunately. Therefore, an "Expanded View" button would be fantastic, and would meet both needs.

Thanks, Robert

-- Thomas Schmidt (tom [at] opensuse.org) openSUSE Boosters Team "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (11.03.1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org

On 13.04.2012 16:59, Thomas Schmidt wrote:

On 13.04.2012 12:39, Ruediger Meier wrote: [...]

...

Is the old web search still available somewhere?

No, it's not. Maybe the obs webui or osc have search methods that better suit your needs than the enduser search on software.o.o.

Are you refering to https://build.opensuse.org/search and the program described on http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:OSC ? Regards Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday 13 April 2012, Thomas Schmidt wrote:

On 13.04.2012 12:39, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

Hi,

IMO the new search webinterface is quiet useless now.

You have to do too many clicks just to find out which exactly versions of a package are available and what particular project it comes from. In fact it even seems to find much less packages than available on OBS.

Hi Ruediger, we designed the new search with focus on normal users and not obs experts, but I also want to satisfy the powerusers and offer all info that they need.

I would stick to the extra click that is currently needed to show all available versions of a package, as that option is only used by few users and confuses all others.

Generally it's ok for me that most stuff shuld be beginner friendly. Anyway her some more thoughts about this. 1. The "Direct Install" version is almost never the one I want. 2. Usually I dont want to install the package on the machine where my webbrowser is running. 3. Mostly I don't even want to install anything - just looking what package versions are available etc. 4. I never ever used "1 Click install" so far and I probably never will (just a matter of taste). 5. On most machines I don't even have yast installed. The *.ymp download is useless there and will confuse non-experts even more than me.

I would also say that it's not slower to get to the information you need, because in the old search you had to read through lots of search results with your searched package maybe on page x of the paginated view.

I don't say that the old search was perfect. The paginated view was also annoying. Why not just one readable table on a single page?

...

It's not clear on first view how to browse directly into the source project page where the search hit belongs too. Also IMO confusiong that project names are shown somehow "human readble" instead of just using the well known (and copy/pasteble) strings like "openSUSE:11.4:Update".

What do you mean by "source project page"? The OBS page that is linked from the project name? I agree that we need to find a nice way to show more info for the repo line, for example a way to get to the ftp repo is missing, and we could also show the last changed date for example.

Yes, that's what I ment.

I don't think that the human readable names confuse the users, on the contrary they should make it easier and hide the technical obs names. Why would you like to copy/paste the name "openSUSE:11.4:Update"?

I always copy/paste between web browser and console (e.g. to build osc or wget command lines or URLs).

...

Another thing, why you always hide the "show distribution" menu after submitting the search button? This is very annoying. Moreover I generally hate these kind of java script pages where the page back button never does what you would expect...

The back button should be working even when using the ajax search, we use pjax for that. Could you open a bug about that, so I can check?

Example: 1. Unexpand some search hits, extended options, whatever. 2. Enter any other page (e.g. click the "About openSUSE" link at the bottom of the page). 3. Then go back. You see everything unexpanded again. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday 13 April 2012 16:28:35 Ruediger Meier wrote:

On Friday 13 April 2012, Robert Schweikert wrote:

...

On 04/13/2012 06:39 AM, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

Hi,

IMO the new search webinterface is quiet useless now.

You have to do too many clicks just to find out which exactly versions of a package are available and what particular project it comes from. In fact it even seems to find much less packages than available on OBS.

It's not clear on first view how to browse directly into the source project page where the search hit belongs too. Also IMO confusiong that project names are shown somehow "human readble" instead of just using the well known (and copy/pasteble) strings like "openSUSE:11.4:Update".

Another thing, why you always hide the "show distribution" menu after submitting the search button? This is very annoying. Moreover I generally hate these kind of java script pages where the page back button never does what you would expect...

Generally +1

However, I have to say that I did not participate in the discussion on the prototype and therefore, somewhat, forfeited my right to complain after the fact.

Thus, rather than complain, I'd like to request that an "Expanded View" button get added to the page. The "Expanded View" would then present the results in a similar way the old search did, with quick and easy access to the OBS project.

Putting myself into the shoes of the "average user" I have to say the new search is better, as it gets to the point quickly:

- Search for a package - Get the results - Install it

Thus, for the "average user" (if such a beast exists) the new search is a great improvement.

Yup, allthough even when thinking like the average user who likes to browse through wizards instead of seeing everthing on one page I would have at least 2 issues:

1. I'm not blind. Why are all these buttons, search bar and fonts that big? After expanding the menus/options I have to resize my browser or scroll around allthough there are only a few informations on page.

2. The fat "Direct Install" button probably does almost never show what I'am looking for. For example searching for "coreutils" recommends me the same version which comes originally with the distro. But I'd say going through the web to search for it instead of just installing it via zypper/yast indicates clearly that I'am looking for something else. Thus it's simply annoying to let me click through all these search hits instead of just showing everything on one page.

It now also shows updates, if there are official updates. I've suggested before to try and show updates from our devel projects as well as these also provide reasonably reliable updates.

...

For those that want/need more info the details are much harder to come by, unfortunately. Therefore, an "Expanded View" button would be fantastic, and would meet both needs.

Usually I'm using "osc search" anyway but sometimes web search is(was) easier. So would be really nice also to think about those users who never use "1 click install" but just want to find and download a particular rpm as quickly as possible or just want to find and browse an OBS project which contains a particular package-version.

Sure but that should indeed be hidden from the end users as I think it's more of a corner case. The core useage of the search is to find and install an application. In quite some cases that application will be part of openSUSE but the user just decided to use software.opensuse.org instead of YaST (which is not so weird as s.o.o is far more easy to use). Most of the rest of the cases would (I think) be when you're looking for a newer package or one which isn't (yet?) part of the distro you run. Our devel projects provide this. If there are no results in devel projects I think it makes sense to automatically expand 'unsupported' and show results of home projects, preferably sorted in some smart way (eg by # of downloads in the home projects).

cu, Rudi

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org

On 13.04.2012 18:32, Martin Seidler wrote:

On 13.04.2012 16:59, Thomas Schmidt wrote:

...

On 13.04.2012 12:39, Ruediger Meier wrote: [...]

...

Is the old web search still available somewhere?

No, it's not. Maybe the obs webui or osc have search methods that better suit your needs than the enduser search on software.o.o.

Are you refering to https://build.opensuse.org/search and the program described on http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:OSC ?

Yes, those programs are the better choice when searching for obs projects or packages from a technical packager perspective. Greetings -- Thomas Schmidt (tschmidt [at] suse.de) SUSE Linux Products GmbH :: Research & Development :: Tools "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." Pablo Picasso -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org

On 04/13/2012 04:59 PM, Thomas Schmidt wrote:

Hi Ruediger, we designed the new search with focus on normal users and not obs experts, but I also want to satisfy the powerusers and offer all info that they need.

This part reads good. though not sure about the availability. Here is what I would like to see and that is not limited to the web interface but should include Yast, zypper and other similar tools as well. Recently I installed debian in a virtualbox and to my surprise I can read the changes of an uninstalled package. That meant rather than blindfoldly installing the package or going to the obs so I can read the package_name.changes, I can get the same info without wandering around. So can this be included, that way user can see what has changed, is the new package solving the problem etc. etc. Thanks Togan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org

On 13.04.2012 16:28, Ruediger Meier wrote:

On Friday 13 April 2012, Robert Schweikert wrote:

...

On 04/13/2012 06:39 AM, Ruediger Meier wrote:

...

Hi,

IMO the new search webinterface is quiet useless now.

You have to do too many clicks just to find out which exactly versions of a package are available and what particular project it comes from. In fact it even seems to find much less packages than available on OBS.

It's not clear on first view how to browse directly into the source project page where the search hit belongs too. Also IMO confusiong that project names are shown somehow "human readble" instead of just using the well known (and copy/pasteble) strings like "openSUSE:11.4:Update".

Another thing, why you always hide the "show distribution" menu after submitting the search button? This is very annoying. Moreover I generally hate these kind of java script pages where the page back button never does what you would expect...

Generally +1

However, I have to say that I did not participate in the discussion on the prototype and therefore, somewhat, forfeited my right to complain after the fact.

Thus, rather than complain, I'd like to request that an "Expanded View" button get added to the page. The "Expanded View" would then present the results in a similar way the old search did, with quick and easy access to the OBS project.

Putting myself into the shoes of the "average user" I have to say the new search is better, as it gets to the point quickly:

- Search for a package - Get the results - Install it

Thus, for the "average user" (if such a beast exists) the new search is a great improvement.

Yup, allthough even when thinking like the average user who likes to browse through wizards instead of seeing everthing on one page I would have at least 2 issues:

1. I'm not blind. Why are all these buttons, search bar and fonts that big? After expanding the menus/options I have to resize my browser or scroll around allthough there are only a few informations on page.

Hi, font sizes are an endless discussion. Could you show us a screenshot showing where you need to scroll although there is few information?

2. The fat "Direct Install" button probably does almost never show what I'am looking for. For example searching for "coreutils" recommends me the same version which comes originally with the distro. But I'd say going through the web to search for it instead of just installing it via zypper/yast indicates clearly that I'am looking for something else. Thus it's simply annoying to let me click through all these search hits instead of just showing everything on one page.

You are right, in case of packages that are in the default repositories it's easier to directly install with zypper.

...

For those that want/need more info the details are much harder to come by, unfortunately. Therefore, an "Expanded View" button would be fantastic, and would meet both needs.

I added an "expand all" button on the right bottom of the page, or you could simply press 'e'.

Usually I'm using "osc search" anyway but sometimes web search is(was) easier. So would be really nice also to think about those users who never use "1 click install" but just want to find and download a particular rpm as quickly as possible or just want to find and browse an OBS project which contains a particular package-version.

That's all possible with the new interface, it's just hidden behind 2 clicks to expand the sections. Greetings -- Thomas Schmidt (tom [at] opensuse.org) openSUSE Boosters Team "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (11.03.1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org

How would Joe Sixpack find the source rpm associated with a package with the new web software search? -- Paul Elliott 1(512)837-1096 pelliott@BlackPatchPanel.com PMB 181, 11900 Metric Blvd Suite J http://www.free.blackpatchpanel.com/pme/ Austin TX 78758-3117