[opensuse-buildservice] Proper etiquette?

Hi list. I've read the online wiki docs, and they're great--as far as they go. Unfortunately, they don't go very far. Don't get me wrong--I love the opensuse build service! I can't believe we got along all these years without it. The trouble is, there's no proper use-case description. I don't mean a formal design document. I mean a true user scenario document, answering questions like: "Why would I want to use this tool?" "How do I properly use it?" "What's the proper workflow?" "When do I build locally?" "What philosophy do I use to decide when to commit?" "When do I publish?" "Which repos do I choose?" "Should I disable publish during testing?" "What do I tell my package users about my use of the OBS?" etc, etc. Before you send me off to http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service, or any of it's sub-links (Tutorial, WorkFlow, etc), just know that I've already read these documents--committed them to memory, in fact. They're not that helpful. Oh, sure, they provide the basic "HowTo" information. What's missing is the "Why" information. There's still some vision in the designers' heads that hasn't made it onto the table yet. Can we get a brain dump on some of this stuff? It will explain to me (and others) what the original intent of the project is--and in a way that will make it simpler to get started using the OBS properly--the way it was originally intended to be used. Too much of this really cool sort of stuff takes decades for people to start using properly because "proper" use of it has to become folklore passed down from generation to generation by the bards... Thanks, John --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

Hello,
Before you send me off to http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service, or any of it's sub-links (Tutorial, WorkFlow, etc), just know that I've already read these documents--committed them to memory, in fact. They're not that helpful. Oh, sure, they provide the basic "HowTo" information. What's missing is the "Why" information.
You are right. But that's a problem common to all these projects. Are you willing to help? Start to update the wiki and start new pages with missing information. When in doubt, make a proposal for an updated/new text here and you surely will get helpful replies. Lots of the magic is also described in the archives of this mailinglist. But I'm pretty sure you wont convince someone else to do the documentation task (except someone on Novell makes an important task of it an assigns some person to it). Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

Hello John, I welcome your input. On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 09:19:13AM -0600, John Calcote wrote:
Hi list.
I've read the online wiki docs, and they're great--as far as they go. Unfortunately, they don't go very far. Don't get me wrong--I love the opensuse build service! I can't believe we got along all these years without it.
The trouble is, there's no proper use-case description. I don't mean a formal design document. I mean a true user scenario document, answering questions like:
"Why would I want to use this tool?" "How do I properly use it?" "What's the proper workflow?" "When do I build locally?" "What philosophy do I use to decide when to commit?" "When do I publish?" "Which repos do I choose?" "Should I disable publish during testing?" "What do I tell my package users about my use of the OBS?" etc, etc.
If you start a wiki page with those questions, I promise that I'll do my share and provide answers to them.
Before you send me off to http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service, or any of it's sub-links (Tutorial, WorkFlow, etc), just know that I've already read these documents--committed them to memory, in fact. They're not that helpful. Oh, sure, they provide the basic "HowTo" information. What's missing is the "Why" information.
There is a lot of outdated and unsorted stuff accumulated meanwhile. Not all os useful, especially the outdated stuff. I have a hard time getting an overview in that wiki. Where to start with cleaning up? Does somebody have a list with all pages concerning the build service?? Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

Team, On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:52:31AM +0200, Dr. Peter Poeml wrote:
There is a lot of outdated and unsorted stuff accumulated meanwhile. Not all os useful, especially the outdated stuff.
I have a hard time getting an overview in that wiki. Where to start with cleaning up? Does somebody have a list with all pages concerning the build service??
how about putting the following task onto our agenda: - take two days to clean up http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service and associated pages We could even update the utterly historical http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service_Team page. Or leave it as is ;) ? Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

Hi Peter On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:52:31AM +0200, Dr. Peter Poeml wrote:
I have a hard time getting an overview in that wiki. Where to start with cleaning up? Does somebody have a list with all pages concerning the build service??
A category page shows all the related pages: http://en.opensuse.org/Category:Build_Service Cheers JP --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

Excellent resource. Thanks! --john On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:27 AM, John Pye <john@curioussymbols.com> wrote:
Hi Peter
On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:52:31AM +0200, Dr. Peter Poeml wrote:
I have a hard time getting an overview in that wiki. Where to start with cleaning up? Does somebody have a list with all pages concerning the build service??
A category page shows all the related pages:
http://en.opensuse.org/Category:Build_Service
Cheers JP
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On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 04:27:57PM +1000, John Pye wrote:
Hi Peter
On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:52:31AM +0200, Dr. Peter Poeml wrote:
I have a hard time getting an overview in that wiki. Where to start with cleaning up? Does somebody have a list with all pages concerning the build service??
A category page shows all the related pages:
Thanks for the hint! Maybe that should be the first, fattest link on http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service even... Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development
participants (4)
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Dirk Stoecker
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Dr. Peter Poeml
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John Calcote
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John Pye