On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Helen wrote:

I personally have mixed feelings about this - the fact that OBS has openSUSE in its name helps to get the openSUSE name 'out there' as its use becomes more popular, but I agree that there is a strong implication for users that it is only for openSUSE. The other reasons raised by Gumb are also valid ones.

OBS is the beating heart of openSUSE, I don't see any problem in having 'openSUSE' on a platform as OBS. What is being propused is called 'repositioning', this is one of the hardest and most risky (if not the most risky at all) operation you can do from a marketing perspective. No one takes lightly to change an established brand name or service without a strong motive. None of the motives seem strong enough, and the work should deployed in a different way, but that not for me to decide. I don't think that changing the name (specially when it has strong roots in the industry already) will solve the problem around attractivity to OBS. What can solve the attractive problem around OBS is to increase exponentially (in a viral way) the number of users of the openSUSE. Lets imagine an hypothetical situation based on 'Facebook' numbers, since I don't have metrics for the userbase of openSUSE and Ubuntu (official channels): Ubuntu: 328275 likes on facebook openSUSE: 2779 likes on facebook If I was a developer to launch an application, I would probably choose launchad/ubuntu because I knew before hand that Ubuntu would enable a higher potential user base for my application. This is simple common sense. In a very simple way we are in the content distribution world, we distribute contents in the form of software. It's a service, it aims for people, that's the very own minimum denominator here. So we should actually look into a way of becoming more attractive to users and investors, and a strategy for that can be delievering a higher number of contents. For example... Ubuntu plays this well... from a simple package, they create like 7/8 sub-packages, then they have over 32K packages as they advertise (look at a screenshot of their Software Center and how they explore this concept to brutalize users perception). Users who have done some packaging or developed something, they know this is a fairy tale and a 'marketing move', but for those without tech skills, they might believe it's the best choice due to the ammount of packages available, eventhough the largest part of them are futile for end users... And when they eventually might realize it, they have already a loyalty bond with Ubuntu and won't swap. I believe on this at least... without a strong user base, we might not become attractive enough for developers to use OBS to distribute their software, because our user base isn't large enough. Maybe what developers love is probably that everyone picks their software and use it? Maybe that's the missing link.

 So a change to just 'open' could be positive in many ways.

I'm still relatively new to the project myself, so I don't know the whole story - I imagine this was probably discussed at length when the Build Service first became an entity.

OBS is the 'nursery' of openSUSE Linux distribution.

On a related note, I was under the impression that Bretzn was being renamed to 'AppInstaller' though perhaps I've got the "wrong end of the stick" as the saying goes.

Good that 'Bretzn' is being renamed, because from a pure marketing perspective, it's not the best of choices, since the internationalizion of the word and the phonetics make a natural barrier to use it in some languages. How can people speak about something if they can't pronounce the word? OBS doesn't suffer from this symptom.

Because we are going to be doing a lot of work in the coming months to promote both the OBS and Bretzn, it might be a good idea to clarify naming right away, and also perhaps talk about branding and logos for both of these projects. Is there anything in progress towards developing artwork?

Again, apologies if this is old territory being covered again!

cheers,

Helen

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:44 AM, gumb wrote:

...

Hi. I am forwarding a proposal for the renaming of the openSUSE Build Service, in order to try and increase its adoption and recognition. Indeed, it seems like certain moves may already have been made in this direction but I'm not too clear on that (see below). This is a follow-up to a suggestion by Jos Poortvliet which he originally made mention of in a recent blog post, here: http://nowwhatthe.blogspot.com/2011/01/lca-on-friday.html

Whilst I am merely an end-user, he has suggested in the spirit of openness that I contact the project via this list to further the discussion. Essentially, such a renaming could be as 'simple' as calling it the 'Open Build Service', and I note that the Meego project, for example, already seems to use this on some of its webpages, but the main OBS introduction page does not, hence my uncertainty. The reasoning behind this subtle change is that the project has perhaps not gained the traction that it should have done in the wider open source and distro community in consideration of what an advanced and useful tool it is. I see there being two key contributory factors behind this:

1) The very name openSUSE Build Service immediately implies something related and perhaps specific to the openSUSE distribution. Many developers / packagers are simply unaware of its scope.

2) There are those for whom anything associated with the name openSUSE makes them run a mile. Rightfully or wrongfully, all the previous Novell / MS associations forever tarnish the image of openSUSE for some. The OBS is unfairly tarred with the same brush, and no matter how good a service it becomes, this perception is unlikely to change for a long time to come.

Of course, general marketing and other factors may also play a part, but I don't think the above two reasons should be easily discounted. Several times I have read conversations involving developers / packagers who are struggling to make packages available for a variety of distros, and when OBS is raised as a potential solution the thread often falls flat or it is dismissed, sometimes for some technical reason or sometimes for no good reason.

To appease the latter category of OBS avoiders, the openSUSE branding could perhaps take a back seat and not be so obviously featured. Let the service speak for itself. The website would need some rewording and perhaps more generic theming or image elements to reduce all the immediate references to openSUSE. I'm basing this broadly on the concept that subtle or subconscious persuasion can often triumph over blatant advertising, but I'm no marketing expert!

Having openSUSE in the title should bring some prestige and publicity to the openSUSE project, but it probably has just as much adverse effect. Far better to attract more people to the service in the first instance, and upon discovering its qualities a certain kudos might then be attributed before the user needs to discover who's behind it.

The rewards and prestige would eventually come from the project generating many times as much usage and therefore media recognition, instead of shouting about itself and falling upon deaf ears, and ultimately occupying a niche.

Not meaning to take anything away from the efforts so far. Having Meego and others on board is a great achievement, but I think the points in Jos's post are an indicator of the widespread ignorance that may be holding it back from reaching out further. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

-- nelson marques nmo.marques@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org