On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 04:22:46PM +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote:

I like this proposal, esp because we could switch to a different version number scheme as well then. This is needed, because we have now a stable branch for the first time for the OBS 2.0 build service.

osc-build is not a good idea, because the script is used on server and client side.

So maybe "obs-build" and let it follow the OBS release numbers ?

mls, ro, lnussel, what are your opinions here ?

The "build" package has nothing to do with obs. It's just used by obs to do the real building. It doesn't even depend on anything from obs. (Same with Fedora's "mock" and koji) Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 04:45:33PM +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote:

You are right of course that the build script can be used without an obs server, but on the other hand one could claim that it belongs to the "obs suite" and is developed as part of it.

It's not a part of obs, it's not even in the same git repository. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 06:06:39PM +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote:

On Tuesday 15 June 2010 17:41:59 Michael Schroeder wrote:

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On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 04:45:33PM +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote:

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You are right of course that the build script can be used without an obs server, but on the other hand one could claim that it belongs to the "obs suite" and is developed as part of it.

It's not a part of obs, it's not even in the same git repository.

That is true, but I think we are free to say that "build" is part of the "openSUSE Build Service Software Collection" ;)

That does not mean that you have to use always all parts of this collection.

So "perl" is also part of the "openSUSE Build Service Software Collection", as it's also used by the build service? How about renaming "kiwi" to "obs-kiwi"? M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 06:16:25PM +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote:

We don't develop perl and kiwi closely together with obs. But we do so with the build script.

No, actually we don't. The build changes were pretty independant of obs. Just look at the commit log. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 2010-06-15 18:27, Juergen Weigert wrote:

On Jun 15, 10 18:23:13 +0200, Michael Schroeder wrote:

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On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 06:16:25PM +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote:

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We don't develop perl and kiwi closely together with obs. But we do so with the build script.

No, actually we don't. The build changes were pretty independant of obs. Just look at the commit log.

Right. So it is technically independant. But 'build' is such a general name, it really deserves some SUSE or build service related qualifier.

We could also call it "tsbs", short for 'the-suse-build-script'.

I think acronyms are better avoided for project names when they are unpronouncible. (it's like making syslogd into sld or console-kit-daemon into ckd) A good start is a word that has fewer than 5000 Google hits to begin with, <10K may also stil be acceptable. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

Henne, At woensdag 16 juni 2010 13:29:36 wrote Henne Vogelsang:

I'm sure you can come up with more :)

Good examples. My 2 cents: Lely, engineer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelis_Lely (the Dutch version is more complete), quite an impressive person. He first designed and then realised by a law the Zuiderzee Works (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zuiderzeeworks.png), a major project comprending closure of the Zuiderzee into a lake, and turning huge areas into dry land. -- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 04:11:25AM -0500, Fathi Boudra wrote:

Hi,

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So what is your proposal ? "suse-build" ? But that could confuse people, because it can be also used to build non-suse stuff.

I'm happy with some branding here (opensuse-build preferred over suse-build). - "build" could be used by osc (openSUSE Commander) - the users will search something like "opensuse build" in their preferred package manager. - in the users minds, "build" is related to openSUSE Build Service. - when I search for "build" tool on Google, I search "opensuse build" terms - to avoid people confusion, package description is here and should state "build" can be used to build non-suse stuff. - the wiki page is http://wiki.opensuse.org/openSUSE:OSC - the gitorious repository is http://gitorious.org/opensuse/osc/

see openSUSE everywhere ? ;)

Couple thoughts. In the past I maintained the fedora 'mock' tool for a while, and some of that applies here. The name 'mock' was chosen because it was a hacked-up version of the 'mach' tool, and over the years I've seen several problems with that name: - 'mock' and 'mach' are not verbally distinguishable - 'mock' is not a google-able term - namespace collision with lots of other things that want to claim that name. Most recently, the python libraries collided with yet another tool that wanted the 'mock' library name. When choosing a new name for 'build', I would keep these points in mind and choose a name that is A) google-able B) easy to pronounce for a large proportion of the population C) not likely to collide with others For these reasons, I dont personally like 'suse-build' or any of the variations on this that I have seen. The other suggestions I have seen, 'bob', 'mallet', 'cement', etc, fail for similar reasons. Tools like 'kiwi' and 'koji' have great names if you want to search for them. I dont like any of the acronyms that have been proposed. As a non-german speaker, I cant evaluate 'lely', 'sep' or 'veit', but they pass the above tests. 'gitorius' is a great name, too. It makes it obvious that it is a 'git'-related tool. Maybe something 'build-ish' or 'obs-ish'? -- Michael

Richard Bos wrote:

At dinsdag 22 juni 2010 17:19:03 wrote Michael E Brown:

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'gitorius' is a great name, too. It makes it obvious that it is a 'git'-related tool. Maybe something 'build-ish' or 'obs-ish'?

buildog ? from bulldog.

Makes me think of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanz_Bulldog We could add some dbus service call it 'BuildKit' or 'ubuild' ;-) A simple one letter prefix variant would be 'bbuild' in reference to it's predecessor 'abuild'. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 2010-06-23 10:14, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

Richard Bos wrote:

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At dinsdag 22 juni 2010 17:19:03 wrote Michael E Brown:

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'gitorius' is a great name, too. It makes it obvious that it is a 'git'-related tool. Maybe something 'build-ish' or 'obs-ish'?

buildog ? from bulldog.

Makes me think of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanz_Bulldog

We could add some dbus service call it 'BuildKit' or 'ubuild' ;-)

Ugh what is this tendency to kit everything, that is _so_ unlinuxish. And I don't see the necessary openSUSE in ubuild - in fact it even looks like some ubuntu fanboi script.

A simple one letter prefix variant would be 'bbuild' in reference to it's predecessor 'abuild'.

How then about a²build (a2build). That seems to get even less google results (up to this mailing list post which will be archived soon...) 13 to count atm. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

ooh, a bikeshed! although I do agree, "build is a bit of a generic name for a binary" were amongst my first thoughts when I learned about the OBS. On 23/06/10 09:19, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

On Wednesday 2010-06-23 10:18, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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On Wednesday 2010-06-23 10:14, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

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A simple one letter prefix variant would be 'bbuild' in reference to it's predecessor 'abuild'.

How then about a²build (a2build). That seems to get even less google results (up to this mailing list post which will be archived soon...) 13 to count atm.

Also note: "a squared [away] build", which just fits the bill ;-)

I like these... the default build uid is abuild too. both bbuild and a2build are short, easy to type, obviously "build" things and aren't a very generic word. It's not far from the current command so not a pain for users. David -- "Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it work in a cartoon once..." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

* Ludwig Nussel [06-15-10 10:48]:

Michael Schroeder wrote:

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On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 04:22:46PM +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

I like this proposal, esp because we could switch to a different version number scheme as well then. This is needed, because we have now a stable branch for the first time for the OBS 2.0 build service.

osc-build is not a good idea, because the script is used on server and client side.

So maybe "obs-build" and let it follow the OBS release numbers ?

mls, ro, lnussel, what are your opinions here ?

The "build" package has nothing to do with obs. It's just used by obs to do the real building. It doesn't even depend on anything from obs.

A better name would be nice nevertheless. I'm not creative enough to think of one though :-(

Why not reverse the order, build-obs? -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

On Jun 15, 10 17:35:54 +0200, Michael Schroeder wrote:

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So maybe "obs-build" and let it follow the OBS release numbers ?

A better name would be nice nevertheless. I'm not creative enough to think of one though :-(

Why not reverse the order, build-obs?

But it also contains the "obs"...

Which is good. It supports obs. I can also reverse the logic and say, that the obs contains build-obs, which features standalone support as a special feature, so that you can build stuff without using obs. BTW: 'osc build' now also supports an offline mode, so you can build in your local directory, without connecting to obs at all. cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "You are trying to use packages from project 'openSUSE:11.2'. Note that malicious packages can compromise your system." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

A better name would be nice nevertheless. I'm not creative enough to think of one though :-(

Call it 'bob', Builder of Opensuse Binaries, aka "Bob the Builder"! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org

Hi, I would like to go forward with this. On last mails exchanges, it seems the candidates are: - a2build - bbuild - obuild Could I prepare a patch and expect a final decision on the subject ? Cheers, Fathi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org