[opensuse-buildservice] Can we please get ARM builds for 11.3+1?
Hi all, I today asked $topic during the project meeting and it was suggested to discuss this on this list. So, question is, can we get ARM builds for 11.3+1 and what is currently missing to get this done. Someone correct me if I am wrong but iirc ARM can already get build on OBS but it needs cross compilation which seriously slows things down. OTOH the Meego folks use it happily for their purposes which includes ARM. So, from the top of my head: 1. am I correct that OBS is already able to build for ARM but it is slow due to cross compilation being needed? 2. What is possible to speed that up - e.g. how do the Meego folks do this? 3. Weren't it an option to exclude "big" packages (e.g. OpenOffice stack) and just build those once in a while - e.g. for milestones? 4. What other problems do you see with creating openSUSE builds for ARM that I forgot to mention here? regards, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Hi, I am one of the MeeGo guys you mentioned. Jan-Simon and me did the cross compile solution for ARM already with openSUSE 11.2. So it was exactly vice versa: we implemented cross build first for openSUSE 11.2 and then to MeeGo. What we need to reenable it is someone needs to bring it back to work on openSUSE. That means: changing packages. Jan-Simon had done before 11.2 a lot of work so that ca. 1000 of the Factory packages build and a base system for ARM boots. But in the end, it was the amount of work to get a real, working, tested ARM version why it was never finished. Martin Stephan Kleine wrote:
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On Wednesday 30 June 2010 19:02:25 Martin Mohring wrote:
Everybody who is interested to get openSUSE on Arm can start to get the Base project building form ARM. If we have this fixed and merged the fixes to Factory, we can enable Arm there and handle possible load problems via dispatcher priorizations. Alternative is to create a clone project (easy with project links these days) and build a Arm-Factory first in another project to be able to change stuff without the need to submit it to factory. Has the disadvantage that stuff might not get merged though. bye adrian
-- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2010-06-30 18:48, Stephan Kleine wrote:
Using real hardware.
Existence of real hardware. Find a manufacturer who sells Linux-ready ARM systems that don't need fiddling. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
2010-06-30 19:11 keltezéssel, Jan Engelhardt írta:
Well, I have some of these systems on my desk :-) EFIKA MX is a small machine built around Freescale's iMX515: http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika I already had the ported part of openSUSE@ARM 11.2 running on it, and Debian / Ubuntu runs just fine. Most of the kernel support is not yet mainlined, but should be OK for 12.0. The Sheeva Plug is a very nice "server" machine based on the Marvell Kirkwood SoC, and AFAIK almost all kernel support is mainlined now. Installing Debian Testing works out of the box. See http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-22-sheevaplug-dev-kit-us.aspx Not yet on my desk: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/info.htm a tablet/netbook solution, based on TI OMAP, with many Linux distributions and Android already ported. The best supported ARM system now days seems to be the Beagle board ( http://beagleboard.org/ ), but unlike the others, this is rather only for developers. So, the hardware and build infrastructure is here, but we also need developers! Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2010-06-30 23:14, Peter Czanik wrote:
Mh... sheeva looks too small, beagle too fiddlely, the touchbook looks a bit weak for its size. If anything, the EFIKA looks stuffed enough to be considered. But probably needs an array of 20 to get the required compute output. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
Not needed with the OBS solution. The complete MeeGo or openSUSE ARM port never saw any real HW before its first boot. That was after the first build.
Some packages do only compile cross because they need more RAM than 2 GB for building. Some packages do not compile with cross compilation. Some cannot be compiled for ARM.
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On Thursday July 1 2010 01:39:36 Martin Mohring wrote: Thank you very much for your input Martin.
The issue that was raised is that ARM would need cross compilation which takes too much time (read as in would bind the limited OBS resources for too long) when building Factory for ARM. How do you (the MeeGo people) handle this? E.g. do you merely cross compile too or did you figure out some fancy tricks to speed up compilation for ARM on x86?
Stephan Kleine wrote:
Cross build with cross real cross compilation is about 60-95% of the native compile performance of i586. The openSUSE 11.2 port used this. So need to wait for QEMU emulators running compilers. All that works since more than 1 year. It just needs to be reactivated for Factory on openSUSE. But to get openSUSE really working on ARM substantially, lots of not building or working packages need to be fixed. And that is *REAL WORK*. And because of dependencies, lots of packages will never build until some depending packages do work. Just to name one: Java. And then, if they are building, you need to get them also working. This is a fultime job for many months. JSM and me needed 5+ months on openSUSE 11.2 to fix the basics, e.g. 500+ packages. To get the complete distro working, you can estimate up. To get the distro itself not only building but passing QA, its much more work. You can see it with the MeeGo project how many people do the distro packaging there. That was also the reason I think why for example arches like PowerPC were dropped from list of released versions for openSUSE. Maybe Adrian can tell numbers what it takes to do an arch until QA and Release. Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 July 2010 02:09:45 Martin Mohring wrote:
Yes and said before, we can handle this via priorization. There is nothing what stops us for enabling arm builds.
yep, but the question is, if really everything needs to work on Arm. I can not image an arm device which runs OpenOffice for example. Having the base and import some MeeGo UI would maybe sufficient ?
Well, powerpc is still building. Just the download numbers are permanently decreasing and we have no active group take care about it. So we can't deliver maintenance for openSUSE Arm. This may be the case with Arm also, but that does not stop us in getting Arm building in Factory ;) It just needs someone who starts and try to get the base system building in first step. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 July 2010 07:14:24 Adrian Schröter wrote: ...
It just needs someone who starts and try to get the base system building in first step.
I have just checked the two base arm projects, where Martin and Jan-Simon worked on: https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=Base%3Abuild%3Aarm https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=Base%3Abuild%3Aarm%3Across They are almost disabled, so I dunno what the current state is. Martin, Jan-Simon: Does it make sense to enable them again to know where we are ? Or should be restarted from scratch with current code from Base project ? I am willing to help here with guidance (help in project setup, keep a look on the project to find out what next could be done). But I will not fix packages ;) bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Hello, 2010-07-01 08:05 keltezéssel, Adrian Schröter írta:
I don't really know, how factory is built. Is it possible to start off compiling a base system, and then add subsystems one by one? That way only those packages were compiled on a factory update, which are already fixed and patches are already in factory. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 July 2010 16:43:07 Peter Czanik wrote:
As said before, start with "Base" project. if we get this working, we can use it as a base for Factory later. There are even Base:build:arm and cross out there. But I dunno about their state, since the build got disabled. Martin Mohring and Jan-Simon should know more. We could just enable them to see in which state they are though ... bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 July 2010 08:05:18 Adrian Schröter wrote:
They are almost disabled, so I dunno what the current state is. I moved all to Ports:ARM:11.2:*
Ports:ARM:11.2:Base:build - Base:build clone of 11.2 - no cross-compile Ports:ARM:11.2:Base:build:cross - cross-compile add-on on-top of that Ports:ARM:11.2 - subset of factory on top of :cross . 1100+ package were already building/done for 11.2 . Status of Factory: unknown, we'd need to rebootstrap and should also change the layout of the cross-compiler packages.
"Turn-key" (at least to some extend) is Ports:ARM:11.2 so ppl can start with something now. Factory would mean doing this for 11.3+1 fresh/clean.
I can take care of the cross-compilers with some help of our gcc guys. I can't go trough all packages again as for 11.2 - so we need helping hands here. Best, Jan-Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 July 2010 19:19:10 Jan-Simon Möller wrote:
So we can remove them ?
Okay, I have established Ports:ARM:Factory as project linked project to openSUSE:Factory, currently building against your 11.2 repo. Let's see where we are ...
k, let's see if we get a critical mass :) I will keep an eye on the project as well and can help with guidance, I hope. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 July 2010 06:54:41 Adrian Schröter wrote:
an open question here is who wants to act as distro manager here ? This means: * handling all submit requests. Reviewing, accepting and possibly forward them to openSUSE:Factory to clean up own copies. * coordinate fixing work (fix package A to see if stack Y builds then) * And maybe also being default bugzilla guy (could also be done by someone else though) Since checkins in this large and therefore slow building project should not happen at random times there should not be too many distro managers. And they should coordinate closely. Other contributors will need to do submit requests to get stuff in, like with openSUSE:Factory. Who does feel to be able to handle this ? bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
2010-07-02 07:02 keltezéssel, Adrian Schröter írta:
Well, I put the question on openFATE, but don't have (yet) the coding knowledge to act as distro manager. I'm pretty much interested in "green" computing, that's why I was pushing PPC and now ARM. I can do basic package fixing (add ARM related entries to spec files where necessary, remove hard coded x86 optimizations from Makefiles, etc.) and testing, as I already have a couple of ARM machines and expect to have more. I could also do Bugzilla, although I'm more used to be on the sending end :-) I plan to learn C (again...), but my current coding knowledge is not enough for reviewing, accepting, etc... Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
We should start with Ports:ARM:Factory:Base:build as a clone with the packages of Base:build and run for now without cross-compilation. The cross-compiler ist still @gcc-4.2.2 and Factory has a newer version so these don't match. Best, Jan-Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 July 2010 14:57:20 Jan-Simon Möller wrote:
I have disabled the "gcc" package for now. That means it will (try to) build gcc45, but it will not get used as default compiler. Where can I find the cross-compiler, which is used ? bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 July 2010 14:59:49 Adrian Schröter wrote:
As I said: 11.2:Base:build is base:build without crosscompiler 11.2:Base:build:cross is the layer with the crosscompiler put on top of that. -> there it is. We should really: start with base:build, without cross-compiler and do this clean/fresh first. Then the cross-compiler. Then we can do whatever we want on top. IMHO rebuilding Factory now with 4.4.2 doesn't make much sense. We just see what all is broken in this very combination. Best, Jan-Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
I reactivated: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Ports%3AARM%3ABase%3Abuil... We might need to adapt the prjconf - let see. Best, Jan-Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Friday July 2 2010 16:05:31 Jan-Simon Möller wrote:
Apparently we need someone to fix the glibc build for ARM. I'm sorry, but while I would be happy to fix some stuff, this is way above my level. Please be so kind to poke someone with the necessary knowledge so we get a working bootstrap to work on from there (if you know said someone). regards, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 July 2010 05:33:19 Stephan Kleine wrote:
Thats nothing about glibc but just a packaging/file/transition bug. I disabled useforbuild now in Ports:ARM:Base:build. When done, we to remove the aggregate and copy the new build results over. Thats for Adrian then with his super-admin powers ;). Best, Jan-Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Hello, 2010-07-05 12:32 keltezéssel, Jan-Simon Möller írta:
I'm back and trying to summary the past weeks evens and posts: - dl9pf already started to update the base system and compilers and could mentor the project - some people questioned the current compilation method -- as it works for MeeGo and Linaro, I think it should also work for us :-) - we need a distro manager -- if it really does not need C knowledge, as dl9pf says, then I can probably take it (I'm just in the middle of many changes, but most likely I'll have some time). - we need developers -- some people already volunteered here and also on openfate ( https://features.opensuse.org/310070 ) - we need hardware to test on -- I have two different ARM hw (EFIKA MX & Sheeva) and others have Beagle Board. My questions are: - what is the status of the base system? - and the most important one: is this group big enough to make openSUSE ARM happen? If we have a positive answer for this last question, we can go on to the next questions: - goals: armv5el and/or armv7el (or any other variants), working installer vs. images, etc. - defining a workflow Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 13 July 2010 10:28:33 Peter Czanik wrote:
From my experiences I can say, one really addicted person can do such a port. (As seen with former ARM and SPARC port, HPPA and Mips. And sparc is currently also approached by one person only). Just start on digging in the code, find out what is not working and try to get it working. In case you have built a binary rpm stack locally, which needs a manual binary import, just drop me a note. -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Hello, 2010-07-13 16:26 keltezéssel, Adrian Schröter írta:
Well, I'm not *that* addicted :-) Especially because for that level of work I'd need to learn C, understand ARM at a lower level, etc. But once the base system / compile infrastructure is there, I can work on package fixing and testing. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 July 2010 06:54:41 Adrian Schröter wrote:
These are obsolete.
So we can remove them ?
We should keep them as pre-factory once its resetup. Base:build is a good playground for the cross-compiler add-on.
yes, we might hit the updated gcc vs. crosscompiler version issue ;) . Best, Jan-Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2010-07-01 02:09, Martin Mohring wrote:
(reformat by me)
I don't know about ARM complexity, but PPC is in the same CPU class as SPARC (big-endianness and alignment sensitivity is what broken code usually stumbles and falls upon) and fixing the basics (read: shell-in server, with the complete OBS stack) and building most of the rest (3/4ths) was just 4 manmonths. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2010-07-01 01:39, Martin Mohring wrote:
It may not be needed, but speed what was asked for. And somtimes you happen to not have any working emulator at hand.. ;)
Interesting - which ones?
Some packages do not compile with cross compilation.
Anything that tries to run something just-compiled. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
2010-07-01 01:39 keltezéssel, Martin Mohring írta:
Some packages do not compile with cross compilation.
I just talked to Genesi (makers of EFIKA MX, http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika ), and they can provide hardware to work around this problem. So, the question is: are there enough interested people to get openSUSE ARM going? Should I also ask it on the factory list (which has a bit more members...)? Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Moin, On Thursday 01 July 2010 09:29:32 Peter Czanik wrote:
Best M
Bye, CzP
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Hello, 2010-07-01 11:37 keltezéssel, Michael Loeffler írta:
Done: https://features.opensuse.org/310070 Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 July 2010 15:00:21 Peter Czanik wrote:
Thanks. I just moved it to the next release - I don't think you wanted to target 11.3... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
2010-07-01 15:58 keltezéssel, Andreas Jaeger írta:
No, it's not a two weeks job, and we have a freeze in effect anyway :-) I just could not find any other openSUSE targets on the list. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On 07/01/2010 03:29 AM, Peter Czanik wrote:
I'll help fix stuff. Will need some pointers to get ging but am more than willing to get my hands dirty and fix code. Robert
-- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
2010-07-01 13:53 keltezéssel, Robert Schweikert írta:
Could you add this info to https://features.opensuse.org/310070 please? So I don't need search my inbox, but a single page :-) Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
I would be more than happy to help on the openSUSE ARM project. BEst, M On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Peter Czanik <pczanik@fang.fa.gau.hu> wrote:
-- Mauro Parra-Miranda Novell Engineer - novell.com openSUSE Developer - openSUSE.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Hello, 2010-06-30 18:48 keltezéssel, Stephan Kleine írta:
So, question is, can we get ARM builds for 11.3+1 and what is currently missing to get this done.
The infrastructure is there, dl9pf did an excellent job there for openSUSE 11.2 and continues to do it for MeeGo. The problem is, that it is not just as simple as enabling ARM build in OBS. Many packages need fixes to be able to get compiled for ARM. Some are just packaging bugs, which even I can fix (so I fixed some for openSUSE 11.2 ARM). But many involve patching. In some cases ARM patches are already available in Debian / Ubuntu / Fedora / etc., so one just needs to find them and use them. But more often it is for an older / newer sw version, so the patch needs to be changed, or does not exist at all. It seems to me now, that I can most likely dedicate some time to the openSUSE@ARM project, if it starts at all. But it is not a one man project, so we need to find more people, who can actually code and alter patches, or create new ones. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Andreas Jaeger -
Jan Engelhardt -
Jan-Simon Möller -
Martin Mohring -
Mauro Parra -
Michael Loeffler -
Peter Czanik -
Robert Schweikert -
Stephan Kleine