[opensuse-buildservice] openSUSE 11.4 ... do not disable repos on EOL?
Hi, Given the large amounts of negative feedback we get when we disable the build repositories of just EOLed openSUSE distributions ... and as 11.4 is targeted to be a Evergreen target again... How about NOT removing the openSUSE 11.4 repositories this time? We could still remove the openSUSE 11.4 repos below home:* but perhaps not for the rest of the namespace. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
Am 27.08.2012 11:23, schrieb Marcus Meissner:
Hi,
Given the large amounts of negative feedback we get when we disable the build repositories of just EOLed openSUSE distributions ... and as 11.4 is targeted to be a Evergreen target again...
How about NOT removing the openSUSE 11.4 repositories this time? Good idea
We could still remove the openSUSE 11.4 repos below home:* but perhaps not for the rest of the namespace.
ACK -- Christian ---------------------------------------------------- - Please do not 'CC' me on list mails. Just reply to the list :) ---------------------------------------------------- Der ultimative shop für Sportbekleidung und Zubehör http://www.sc24.de ---------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
Le 27/08/2012 11:23, Marcus Meissner a écrit :
Hi,
Given the large amounts of negative feedback we get when we disable the build repositories of just EOLed openSUSE distributions ... and as 11.4 is targeted to be a Evergreen target again...
How about NOT removing the openSUSE 11.4 repositories this time?
+1 my ISP is still proposing 11.4 I beg the systemd jump is a problem for him (just my guess) jdd -- http://www.dodin.org http://jddtube.dodin.org/20120616-52-highway_v1115 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 2012-08-27 12:18, jdd wrote:
Le 27/08/2012 11:23, Marcus Meissner a écrit :
Hi,
Given the large amounts of negative feedback we get when we disable the build repositories of just EOLed openSUSE distributions ... and as 11.4 is targeted to be a Evergreen target again...
How about NOT removing the openSUSE 11.4 repositories this time?
+1 my ISP is still proposing 11.4
Did your ISP become a DSP, or why do they care about your choice of distro? :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
On 27 August 2012 10:23, Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> wrote:
Hi,
Given the large amounts of negative feedback we get when we disable the build repositories of just EOLed openSUSE distributions ... and as 11.4 is targeted to be a Evergreen target again...
How about NOT removing the openSUSE 11.4 repositories this time?
We could still remove the openSUSE 11.4 repos below home:* but perhaps not for the rest of the namespace.
It depends on what the Evergreen team wants. Independently of what SUSE, the company, wants, if the "openSUSE Project" wants to have a support period of X years it's OK with me. But the current situation looks more like this extended support period is just something the "Evergreen team" wants, not the "openSUSE project" as a whole (am I wrong here?) Given this, asking the packagers outside of the Evergreen project to do the extra work to support 11.4 is IMHO not fair. So if the Evergreen team is happy with the projects having 11.4 in a "best effort" basis (so with half the packages failing because the use a macro that is just eye candy, but not supported in 11.4) then sure, just keep the 11.4 repository there. But if the Evergreen team wants packages that keep building, IMHO they should do the work. They should patch its RPM (rpmbuild) package to support the latest spec files. And for that to work, what it should be done is redirect the openSUSE:11.4 project to openSUSE:Evergreen:11.4. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
Am 27.08.2012 12:26, schrieb Cristian Morales Vega:
It depends on what the Evergreen team wants. Independently of what SUSE, the company, wants, if the "openSUSE Project" wants to have a support period of X years it's OK with me. But the current situation looks more like this extended support period is just something the "Evergreen team" wants, not the "openSUSE project" as a whole (am I wrong here?)
I do not know. How do you know what the project wants? Who is the project for you? Do we need a vote amongst the project members to know what the project wants?
Given this, asking the packagers outside of the Evergreen project to do the extra work to support 11.4 is IMHO not fair.
I understood this is mainly for not moving the official distribution 11.4 repos to another name and invalidate all projects immediately stacking on it. Apart from that it's the choice of every packager if he wants to keep compatibility with 11.4 or not in his packages.
So if the Evergreen team is happy with the projects having 11.4 in a "best effort" basis (so with half the packages failing because the use a macro that is just eye candy, but not supported in 11.4) then sure, just keep the 11.4 repository there. But if the Evergreen team wants packages that keep building, IMHO they should do the work. They should patch its RPM (rpmbuild) package to support the latest spec files. And for that to work, what it should be done is redirect the openSUSE:11.4 project to openSUSE:Evergreen:11.4.
It seems you do not fully understand what Evergreen means. It means to keep 11.4 (here) secure enough to let it run for a longer period. It's usually not meant that every new package update in OBS needs to be available for 11.4. And obviously if a packager decides to provide security updates for 11.4 this is appreciated but noone requires him to do so. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer <wolfgang@rosenauer.org> wrote:
Am 27.08.2012 12:26, schrieb Cristian Morales Vega:
It depends on what the Evergreen team wants. Independently of what SUSE, the company, wants, if the "openSUSE Project" wants to have a support period of X years it's OK with me. But the current situation looks more like this extended support period is just something the "Evergreen team" wants, not the "openSUSE project" as a whole (am I wrong here?)
I do not know. How do you know what the project wants?
Agreed. We had a long discussion [1] about this last time (where I got beat down) when 11.3 got nuked. Suffice to say, my vote is YES - keep the repos.
Given this, asking the packagers outside of the Evergreen project to do the extra work to support 11.4 is IMHO not fair.
I understood this is mainly for not moving the official distribution 11.4 repos to another name and invalidate all projects immediately stacking on it. Apart from that it's the choice of every packager if he wants to keep compatibility with 11.4 or not in his packages.
Agreed. I don't think there is any implicit requirement here that all forward progress must include indefinite maintenance of 11.4 builds. Nobody is being demanded to do any extra work. -Archie [1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-buildservice/2012-01/msg00165.html -- Archie L. Cobbs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 27. August 2012, 09:26:45 schrieb Archie Cobbs:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer <wolfgang@rosenauer.org> wrote:
Am 27.08.2012 12:26, schrieb Cristian Morales Vega:
It depends on what the Evergreen team wants. Independently of what SUSE, the company, wants, if the "openSUSE Project" wants to have a support period of X years it's OK with me. But the current situation looks more like this extended support period is just something the "Evergreen team" wants, not the "openSUSE project" as a whole (am I wrong here?)
I do not know. How do you know what the project wants?
Agreed. We had a long discussion [1] about this last time (where I got beat down) when 11.3 got nuked.
Suffice to say, my vote is YES - keep the repos.
Please see my other mail speaking about our storage problems on our server and mirrors. Also the complains about low scheduling and build speed. Removing repositories of projects where the maintainers did not change their repos from openSUSE to DISCONTINUED:openSUSE is right now the only way to get rid of stuff where maintainers do not re-acct or vanished. However, I have an idea how to solve this in a different way in future: * Implement a "remove repository from project" request type. * Add an option to auto-accept after X time, if the request got not declined. (Such a request can only be created when the submitter has write access in target, but the admin has always ;) => That means we would not need to move the projects around anymore, so nothing breaks during that. Also more people get trained in re-acting on requests to them. What do you think about that approach?
Given this, asking the packagers outside of the Evergreen project to do the extra work to support 11.4 is IMHO not fair.
I understood this is mainly for not moving the official distribution 11.4 repos to another name and invalidate all projects immediately stacking on it. Apart from that it's the choice of every packager if he wants to keep compatibility with 11.4 or not in his packages.
Agreed. I don't think there is any implicit requirement here that all forward progress must include indefinite maintenance of 11.4 builds. Nobody is being demanded to do any extra work.
But our infrastructure has extra work.
-Archie
[1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-buildservice/2012-01/msg00165.html
-- Archie L. Cobbs
-- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:15:10 +0200 Adrian Schröter <adrian@suse.de> wrote:
=> That means we would not need to move the projects around anymore, so nothing breaks during that. Also more people get trained in re-acting on requests to them.
What do you think about that approach?
Sounds sane! +1 Detlef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
Am 04.09.2012 11:15, schrieb Adrian Schröter:
=> That means we would not need to move the projects around anymore, so nothing breaks during that. Also more people get trained in re-acting on requests to them.
What do you think about that approach?
ACK +1 -- Christian ---------------------------------------------------- - Please do not 'CC' me on list mails. Just reply to the list :) ---------------------------------------------------- Der ultimative shop für Sportbekleidung und Zubehör http://www.sc24.de ---------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Adrian Schröter <adrian@suse.de>:
However, I have an idea how to solve this in a different way in future:
* Implement a "remove repository from project" request type.
* Add an option to auto-accept after X time, if the request got not declined. (Such a request can only be created when the submitter has write access in target, but the admin has always ;)
=> That means we would not need to move the projects around anymore, so nothing breaks during that. Also more people get trained in re-acting on requests to them.
What do you think about that approach?
I like this approach. It gives a 'veto' option to the project maintainer, and helps keep the systems clean. The only 'thing' to consider is the 'auto accept after X days': should not be too short, to allow people to have a holiday once in a while. And if possible: on 'auto accept' of the request, hermes should send out an email stating that "this" has just been completed, possibly with clear instructions on how to proceed if this was not meant to be. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:15 AM, Adrian Schröter <adrian@suse.de> wrote:
However, I have an idea how to solve this in a different way in future:
* Implement a "remove repository from project" request type.
* Add an option to auto-accept after X time, if the request got not declined. (Such a request can only be created when the submitter has write access in target, but the admin has always ;)
=> That means we would not need to move the projects around anymore, so nothing breaks during that. Also more people get trained in re-acting on requests to them.
What do you think about that approach?
That would be a definite improvement. Regarding this overall question, I encourage everyone to read the comments on the "We need new ideas" posting [1] ... you will see an overwhelming number of them are asking for longer support lifetimes for releases. I think this is good evidence that there are many openSUSE users who run and maintain systems for many years -- not surprising thanks to openSUSE's solidity, maintainability, and reliability! I don't know what the perfect trade-off is between resource constraints, maintainer time, etc. vs. longer release lifetimes. However there seems to be room (and demand) for a better one. -Archie [1] http://news.opensuse.org/2012/06/14/where-is-my-12-2-my-kingdom-for-a-12-2/ -- Archie L. Cobbs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 11:23:32AM +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:
Hi,
Given the large amounts of negative feedback we get when we disable the build repositories of just EOLed openSUSE distributions ... and as 11.4 is targeted to be a Evergreen target again...
How about NOT removing the openSUSE 11.4 repositories this time?
What about Evergreen? I don't think we want to end with a half of projects builds against obsoleted 11.4 and half against Evergreen:11.4. So my proposal is to 1. disable the build against EOL openSUSE everywhere (+remove that from homes)? 2. in case EOL release will be Evergreen, change the build target to openSUSE:Evergreen:EOL:Test, so once build targets will be reenabled by maintainers, it will build agains expected Evergreen target The disabling is less intrustive, than removing. And it can be re-enabled in projects where really needed by maintainers. BTW: of course than 2. can be done by some BS magic, but I would vote for make things explicit. BTW2: the question is what to do, when Evergreen:EOL reaches it's EOL ;-) Regards Michal Vyskocil
participants (11)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Archie Cobbs -
Christian -
Cristian Morales Vega -
Detlef Steuer -
Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar -
Jan Engelhardt -
jdd -
Marcus Meissner -
Michal Vyskocil -
Wolfgang Rosenauer